Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Japan/Archive/January 2016

Talk & archives for WP Japan

Project talk 2006 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 2007 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 2008 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 2009 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 2010 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 2011 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 2012 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 2013 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 2014 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 2015 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 2016 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 2017 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 2018 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 2019 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 2020 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 2021 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 2022 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 2023 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
Task force talk/archives ↔ Baseball (1) Bibliography (1) ↔ Cinema (1) ↔ CJKV (1) ↔ Districts and municipalities (1) Gaijin tarento (1) ↔ Military history (1, 2, 3) Music (1) Mythology (1, 2, 3, 4) Owarai (1) Politics (1) Prefectures (1) Royalty & nobility (1) Science & technology (1) Shinto (1) ↔ Tokyo (1) ↔ Transwiki ↔ = joint task force
Old notice board All of 2004 Jan–Mar 2005 Apr–Jun 2005 Jul–Oct 2005 Nov–Dec 2005 Jan–Feb 2006 Feb–May 2006 Jun–Dec 2006 Jan–Jun 2007 Jun 2007 – Sep 2008
Related talk/archives Anime and manga (index) Hello! Project (1) Pokémon (index, PAC (1, 2), PAC 2) Sumo (1, 2, 3) Square Enix (index) Tokusatsu (index) Trains (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7)
Search the archives:
V·T·E

AfC submission

See Draft:Appi Kogen Ski Resort. Best, FoCuS contribs; talk to me! 23:24, 3 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Gōyā and Nūyaru burgers

There's discussion at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2016 January 10#Bickyburger about redirects for Gōyā and Nūyaru burgers, mostly hinging on whether these are variants exclusive to Jef or not. Help is appreciated. --BDD (talk) 17:42, 10 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Translation help

I'd appreciate help with translation of wood related terms from [1] : 槫へぎ, 春木作り, 指物大工, 柄屋, 桶屋,　曲げ師. Thanks. bamse (talk) 10:11, 7 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, I don't know those ones. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 20:45, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Though, here's my guess at them:

槫へぎ - no idea, it literally means "hearse splint", which doesn't make any sense to me
春木作り - made from young wood (perhaps green wood? not sure...), maybe green woodworking?
指物大工 - joinery carpenter (one that uses traditional joinery, I'm guessing), see joiner
柄屋 - handle/knob designer or maker (since 屋 can refer to the person as opposed to the place), not sure if there is an English equivalent word for that, maybe woodturner?
桶屋 - Cooper (profession)
曲げ師 - not sure, it means "master bender", so perhaps someone who is expert at forming wood using wet wood or forms to bend the wood into a particular shape? ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 21:03, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Not sure how helpful that is. I'll see if someone from the Japanese Wikipedia can come help here. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 21:03, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

槫へぎ (kure hegi) lumber slicing, thin board slicing (for roofing board)

槫(Kyūjitai) 榑(Shinjitai): lumber, thin wooden board[2] [3]

へぎ(片木, 折) (noun) verb: へぐ、はぐ　(Kyūjitai: 剝ぐ, Shinjitai: 剥ぐ) Strip/slice/peel [4][5]

春木作り (Haruki zukuri) preparing firewood/chopping firewood. Firewood is called haruki' in Hida, Gifu.[6]

曲げ師　An artisan who makes 曲げわっぱ (mage wappa).[7]

―― Phoenix7777 (talk) 22:59, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you. bamse (talk) 10:27, 11 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Glossaries for the project

One thing that may be useful to the project is to create a series of glossaries and reference pages which give standard English translations for Japanese terms. We have two such pages already:

Film credits glossary
Unusual place names (not really a glossary, but a pronunciation guide)

Based on the section above this one, it may be good to have one for woodworking terms. Any others people would find useful? ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 21:21, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I started one for arts and crafts words at Wikipedia:WikiProject Japan/Arts and crafts glossary. Feel free to expand it with more words. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 19:16, 11 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, good idea. How about moving those into article space, like Glossary of Japanese swords, Glossary of Shinto or Glossary of Japanese Buddhism? bamse (talk) 21:10, 11 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

"Arts and crafts" might be a bit broad. bamse (talk) 21:39, 11 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

For now, I think it would be good to build it up and add references. If it gets sufficiently large, we can move it to the mainspace. The scope is broad because I wasn't sure how narrow it should be. We can always adjust it later. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 18:29, 14 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Daijobu/Daijobanai at Japanese grammar article

Japanese grammar (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

Hi. The editor Takahiro4 has now repeatedly removed a small section from the Japanese grammar article which mentions how daijobanai is very occasionally seen as a casual verb-style corruption of daijōbu (大丈夫). I've pointed out the example of the song title "Daijobanai" by Perfume ([8]), but this was dismissed as being just one example (even though the article text does say it's "rare"). The bit about "daijobu" not being conjugated as "daijonda" was also removed by the same editor with an edit summary saying that "daijonda" doesn't exist (which is exactly what the text is saying), so I suspect that the editor has problems with English comprehension.

The text in question seems reasonable to me, but since it is not actually backed up by a specific reference source, should it be left out or restored as a useful example of non-standard corruptions of noun forms like "daijobu"? --DAJF (talk) 10:07, 17 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Neither daijoba-nai nor daijo-nda are considered as a standard Japanese. Perfume's lyric is nothing other than a coined word. We should wait for at least ten years if it becomes a common Japanese usage. The paragraph was added by this edit. Current standard Japanese is either daijobu de(wa) nai or daijobu ja nai not daijoba nai. It shouldn't be in the article unless the article is about the Japanese slang.―― Phoenix7777 (talk) 10:40, 17 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I think the text should be left out. It is a nonce usage, and in any language, any rule can be broken for effect (or is it affect?)... this does not contribute to understanding. Imaginatorium (talk) 13:13, 17 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The problem with "daijonda" not existing is that it's an invention of the editor = original research. The same goes for nouns ending in "u". This is a rule? Ideally we want a reference for all of that. I have heard the term daijoba-nai, and agree with Imaginatorium that it's used for humorous effect. It doesn't really belong unless we have a section about breaking rules for humor. – Margin1522 (talk) 13:42, 17 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, "daijobanai" is not real Japanese. It's made up for that song. Base on conjugation, it would like mean "if it's not all right" or something like that. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 19:10, 17 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the feedback, everyone. I was actually well aware that "daijobanai" was not correct textbook Japanese, but maybe the text removed from the article didn't make that sufficiently clear (although it did say it was a "casual corruption"). Also, it was coined as net/street slang years before the Perfume song appeared. I just used that song as one example, since that probably brought it more into the public eye. My own view is that it is informative to mention non-standard but occasionally-used casual/slang formations like this, but if the general consensus is that they are distracting, then fair enough. --DAJF (talk) 11:18, 19 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I must have misunderstood what you were seeking, then. If "daijobanai" is being discussed (or casual/slang terms) and it is being used as an example, it's perfectly fine to include it. Just be sure to include refs for it since it may be difficult for many people to look it up. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 18:47, 19 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Testing the revised MOS:JA#Modern names

I've started an RM to test community receptiveness to the heavily revised version of MOS:JA#Modern names we now have. It seeks to move Hikaru Utada back to Utada Hikaru (which was renamed under the old 2008 version of this guideline, which strongly leaned toward Westernized name order). — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽^ʌⱷ҅_ᴥⱷ^ʌ≼ 08:04, 22 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Bot helping with categorization

I was thinking it might be useful to have a bot add the {{WikiProject Japan}} banner to articles in categories with the word "Japan" in them. There are just so many articles to check now that it's hard to keep up manually. Thoughts? ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 18:31, 14 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Anyone have any input on this? When requesting a bot do something, we usually need to have a consensus discussion we can point to. Thanks. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 00:37, 21 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

How would the bot hondle it? Would it put the {{WikiProject Japan}} banner on, say, David Suzuki, who is categorized under Category:Canadian people of Japanese descent and Category:Japanese Canadian internees but is born and bred Canadian? Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 00:57, 21 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, since that would fall under this project being a Japan-related topic. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 04:26, 21 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

So having Japanese blood is the only requirement for the {{WikiProject Japan}} banner? Is there a guideline for this? Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 06:21, 21 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Anything Japan-related falls under the scope of the project. I suppose if having Japanese blood was the only connection, that wouldn't necessarily put them within the scope, but this person was put in a ~~concentration~~ relocation camp during World War II, so they would definitely fall under the project's scope. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 18:06, 22 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

So the bot would distinguish between Category:Canadian people of Japanese descent and Category:Japanese Canadian internees? Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 21:46, 22 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

If you programmed it that way, yes. There can always be a list of categories it should ignore. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 22:55, 22 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I am not familiar with how bots work. What if somebody accidentally added an article to a "Japan" category? Would the bot also deal with removing WPJ banners? bamse (talk) 12:01, 21 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

There would be a log that could be reviewed. We could also make an exclusion list, adding articles which may be in those categories but aren't really within the scope of this project. For an article accidentally added and later removed from those categories, we could see if the bot could review articles to which it had previously added the banner to see if they still qualified. We can request any number of features (though all might not be able to be included in the bot's tasks). ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 18:06, 22 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

One of your project's articles has been selected for improvement!

Hello,
Please note that Izakaya, which is within this project's scope, has been selected as one of Today's articles for improvement. The article was scheduled to appear on Wikipedia's Community portal in the "Today's articles for improvement" section for one week, beginning today. Everyone is encouraged to collaborate to improve the article. Thanks, and happy editing!
_{Delivered by — MusikBot ^talk 00:06, 25 January 2016 (UTC) on behalf of the TAFI team}[reply]

Kamen Rider Black Kohtaro Minami

An edit war seems to encompass Kamen Rider Black (character) and Kamen Rider Black RX (character); see details at talk:Kamen Rider Black (character) -- 70.51.200.135 (talk) 05:51, 24 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Requested Move & Discussion on Romanization

There are two separate, but related, discussions on the Talk:Kamen Rider Black (character) page - an RM, and a discussion on romanization. Input from uninvolved editors would be appreciated. - Ryk72 ^'c.s.n.s.' 05:38, 28 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The Super Girl / Supergirl

Some input for a Japanese name discussion would be appreciated: Talk:Supergirl (Japanese TV series)#Requested move 26 January 2016. –Dark Cocoa Frosting (talk) 18:15, 31 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]