Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2024 November 14
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November 14
[edit]Air travel by ethnicity in the USA in the 1960s
[edit]What data is available on the breakdown by ethnicity of people in the USA taking commercial flights in the 1960s? I'm mostly interested in long-haul flights, but domestic flights could be useful too. Thanks, --Viennese Waltz 08:06, 14 November 2024 (UTC)
- When booking a flight, one's ethnicity is not recorded, so it would be surprising if any remotely reliable data exists. --Lambiam 10:53, 14 November 2024 (UTC)
- Well, there's this, which relates to 2015. The source of that data seems to be a survey, not information recorded at the time of booking. It would be good to know if any similar survey was carried out in the 1960s. --Viennese Waltz 15:17, 14 November 2024 (UTC)
- See [1], [2], [3], [4] for some general discussion on the topic but very few stats. Nanonic (talk) 17:29, 14 November 2024 (UTC)
- 1960s is long before deregulation. Flight costs were very high. If you could afford a ticket, regardless of ethnicity, you could purchase one and fly. Most people could not afford tickets at the time. 68.187.174.155 (talk) 17:33, 14 November 2024 (UTC)
- Yes, but there's also the question of what would actually happen. Civil rights activists from the time could give some insight into that. At least, those that weren't killed for doing things that were actually legal (or for helping others do them). --User:Khajidha (talk) (contributions) 16:55, 15 November 2024 (UTC)
- Yes. Regardless of skin color, passengers could fly if they could afford a ticket. In the 1960s, it was not profitable for airlines to turn customers away. I feel that the point that airlines were regulated in the 1960s is being overlooked or there is a lack of understanding about how expensive tickets were during regulation. It was nothing at all like modern air travel. 68.187.174.155 (talk) 19:33, 15 November 2024 (UTC)
- I don't know why you keep bringing up regulation and pricing. You say that "if you could afford a ticket, regardless of ethnicity, you could purchase one and fly", which is undoubtedly true. But that still holds true today, and it doesn't get us anywhere closer to answering my question of what percentage of air passengers in the 1960s were white, black, Asian etc. I think Lambiam is right that there is no reliable data on this. --Viennese Waltz 06:45, 16 November 2024 (UTC)
- I keep bringing it up because I do not believe it is understood. In the 1960s, being able to fly was based on money, not race, ethnicity, religion, gender, etc... All minorities that were mostly middle-class or below were unable to afford tickets. It is not accurate to claim that there was a wide-spread policy to refuse airline tickets based on skin color. It is accurate to claim that there was a wide-spread policy to refuse to sell tickets to people who didn't have enough money to purchase them. 68.187.174.155 (talk) 18:40, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
- That's all very interesting, but it has absolutely nothing to do with the question I asked. --Viennese Waltz 18:45, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
- You may be interested in:
- As Late as 1963, Some U.S. Airports Were Still Segregated
- Social Changes in the Airline Industry
- What It Was Like to Fly as a Black Traveler in the Jim Crow Era
- Alansplodge (talk) 17:57, 18 November 2024 (UTC)
- Thanks, but Nanonic already provided all three of those links. --Viennese Waltz 18:18, 18 November 2024 (UTC)
- I keep bringing it up because I do not believe it is understood. In the 1960s, being able to fly was based on money, not race, ethnicity, religion, gender, etc... All minorities that were mostly middle-class or below were unable to afford tickets. It is not accurate to claim that there was a wide-spread policy to refuse airline tickets based on skin color. It is accurate to claim that there was a wide-spread policy to refuse to sell tickets to people who didn't have enough money to purchase them. 68.187.174.155 (talk) 18:40, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
- I don't know why you keep bringing up regulation and pricing. You say that "if you could afford a ticket, regardless of ethnicity, you could purchase one and fly", which is undoubtedly true. But that still holds true today, and it doesn't get us anywhere closer to answering my question of what percentage of air passengers in the 1960s were white, black, Asian etc. I think Lambiam is right that there is no reliable data on this. --Viennese Waltz 06:45, 16 November 2024 (UTC)
- Yes. Regardless of skin color, passengers could fly if they could afford a ticket. In the 1960s, it was not profitable for airlines to turn customers away. I feel that the point that airlines were regulated in the 1960s is being overlooked or there is a lack of understanding about how expensive tickets were during regulation. It was nothing at all like modern air travel. 68.187.174.155 (talk) 19:33, 15 November 2024 (UTC)
- Yes, but there's also the question of what would actually happen. Civil rights activists from the time could give some insight into that. At least, those that weren't killed for doing things that were actually legal (or for helping others do them). --User:Khajidha (talk) (contributions) 16:55, 15 November 2024 (UTC)