Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/William McSherry/archive1

The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Laser brain via FACBot (talk) 29 July 2019 [1].

William McSherry

Nominator(s): Ergo Sum 03:35, 28 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

This is a short but comprehensive article about William McSherry, a Jesuit who was president of Georgetown University and is remembered for having arranged the 1838 Jesuit slave sale. Thomas F. Mulledy was akin to his partner-in-crime for this sale, and that article was recently promoted to FA; it is something of a companion article. McSherry later became the leader of the Jesuits in the United States. Ergo Sum 03:35, 28 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Image review

File:William_McSherry_portrait.jpg: when/where was this first published? Nikkimaria (talk) 14:36, 29 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- @Nikkimaria: I believe this is another case of anonymous, never published images, as we discussed at Thomas F. Mulledy. After searching, I'm unable to find any evidence of this image being published. Ergo Sum 13:55, 30 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  - Okay, so should then swap in the PD-US-unpublished tag, and suggest also elaborating on the image description page the searches you've done. Nikkimaria (talk) 15:10, 30 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    - Will do. Thanks. Ergo Sum 17:47, 30 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Sources review

No spotchecks carried out
Links to sources are all working
Formats: a couple of italicisation issues: "City of Charles Town, West Virginia" (ref 3) and "Georgetown Slavery Archive" (ref 36) are publishers, not websites, and should not be in italic form
- @Brianboulton: I think I may have to beg to differ. Reading {{Cite web}}, it seems that |website= is more appropriate than |publisher=. Neither of those entities are publishers per se, like book or newspaper publishers. Rather, they are distinctly not publishers but publish incidental to their other functions. Ergo Sum 13:46, 4 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  - They may not be "publishers" in the conventional meaning of the word, but they are the organisations that publish these websites, and the means whereby we judge the quality/reliability of the material. They are not websites. Brianboulton (talk) 21:04, 4 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    - @Brianboulton: I'm open to swapping out the parameters, but I'm curious, then, in what circumstance would |website= ever be used? Ergo Sum 15:39, 5 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
      - @Brianboulton: I've replaced website with publisher for the City of Charles Town ref. For the Slavery Archive ref, I've kept the website param, but added a publisher, since the archive is not any entity in itself, but is just a project run by Georgetown University. Does this look good now? Ergo Sum 19:30, 6 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
        Yes, no problem. Brianboulton (talk) 19:59, 6 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Quality and reliability: the sources appear well chosen, and to meet the required criteria for quality and reliability.

Brianboulton (talk) 11:58, 4 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for the source review. Ergo Sum 13:46, 4 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Support from The Rambling Man

Support I reviewed this at GAN and considered at the time that it was beyond that quality already. I'm satisfied it meets all the FAC criteria. The Rambling Man (REJOICE!) 09:31, 24 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Coordinator notes

I've added this to the Urgents list but, having been open nearly a month, it will be archived soon if it does not attract additional attention. --Laser brain (talk) 10:55, 24 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Support from Cas Liber

Taking a look now...

It is a little jarring in the Early life section how one sentence we're talking about how Anne married Richard and the next is William following his brothers to college. However I can't see a way of reorganising the section as is. Is there any other biographical info? Given his age I thought I'd ask. If none this is not a deal-breaker....
- I can't find any other information about his early life, even trivial information. I would suggest separating into two paragraphs, but then I think each would be too short. Ergo Sum 19:09, 27 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  - agreed - two paras would be too choppy Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 20:09, 27 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

~~He arrived at Georgetown on December 22, 1828~~ ~~- do we know in what condition? i.e. you've mentioned the voyage was treacherous, which leaves me curious.....~~
- Again, I can't seem to find any additional detail. The voyage was, indeed, treacherous, so one can assume that it was tiring and nerve-racking, but those would be assumptions. Ergo Sum 19:10, 27 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

~~...due to a[n insufficient number] of Jesuits to staff them~~ ~~- err, why not just a "lack"?~~
- Good point. Rephrased. Ergo Sum 19:10, 27 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

~~In 1839, McSherry was permitted to resign the presidency due to his [significantly deteriorated] health.~~ ~~- why not just "poor" or "worsening"?~~
- Rephrased. Ergo Sum 19:11, 27 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Other than that, a nice read and on track to FA-hood methinks Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 08:06, 27 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Casliber: Thank you for your comments. I believe I've addressed them all. Ergo Sum 19:12, 27 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

ok all good now (on comprehensiveness and prose) Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 20:09, 27 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Support from Ceoil

Will take a look this weekend. Ceoil (talk) 09:35, 27 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

and was introduced to Richard in the United States, where they married on July 31, 1791: Since you don't say met, can use the word "arranged"
- It does not appear to be an arranged marriage, so I rephrased it as met. Ergo Sum 21:21, 27 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
he rediscovered in the Jesuit archives the Relatio Itineris by Andrew White - was this a personal rediscovey of known text or did he unearth a previously lost archive - ie say "found the previously lost/forgoten"
- Clarified. Ergo Sum 21:22, 27 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
"brought to light" is colloquial
- Rephrased. Ergo Sum 21:23, 27 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
there are a few long sentences that would have more narrative or dramatic impact if split up & expanded upon;

Eventually, he left for the United States from the port of Livorno on a treacherous voyage that lated 171 days, and caused some in the United States to fear that the three Jesuits aboard had perished. - here the detail of "from the port of Livorno" as acquardly placed, bogs the reader down and takes from the excitement potential of the latter parts of these claims. Would tighten.

- I've rephrased that sentence to streamline the narrative. Ergo Sum 21:28, 27 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
McSherry was recalled to Rome in 1832, because why...can you make cleared
- I cannot find the reason why he was recalled. Ergo Sum 21:24, 27 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  - Then say that for a reason, now lost Ceoil (talk) 21:39, 27 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
McSherry was appointed President of Georgetown University and entered office on December 25, 1837 sometimes you say the president, sometimes president. These things matter to BritEn watchers
- I've made it consistent. Ergo Sum 21:26, 27 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Overall, the article is very strong, on sourcing, comprehensiveness and clarity of prose as is usual from Ergo. Although I am about as lapsed a Catholic as lapsed Catholics can be; leaning support. Ceoil (talk) 19:44, 27 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

These are nitpicks that I trust Ergo to address; have read through and edited otherwise. Support. Ceoil (talk) 20:20, 27 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Ceoil: Thanks for your comments. I believe I've addressed them all. Ergo Sum 21:28, 27 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

As one of the first Americans to complete the traditional Jesuit course of training - should this just be "first American trained as a Jesuit"? Otherwise, yep, all points met. Ceoil (talk) 06:16, 28 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- The two are actually different in an important way. There were Americans who had been admitted as Jesuits without undergoing the full training that their Continental counterparts did. McSherry was one of the first to complete the full course. Ergo Sum 14:22, 28 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Ah ok. Ceoil (talk) 14:36, 28 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Closing note: This candidate has been promoted, but there may be a delay in bot processing of the close. Please see WP:FAC/ar, and leave the {{featured article candidates}} template in place on the talk page until the bot goes through. --Laser brain (talk) 13:08, 29 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.