Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Metaphysics/archive1

The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Gog the Mild via FACBot (talk) 5 January 2025 [1].

Metaphysics

Nominator(s): Phlsph7 (talk) 12:53, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Metaphysics is the branch of philosophy that examines the basic structure of reality. Some of its main topics include the categories of being, the concepts of possibility and necessity, the nature of spacetime, and the relation between mind and matter. It is relevant to many fields, ranging from other branches of philosophy to the sciences, which often implicitly rely on metaphysical concepts and ideas. Thanks to 750h+ for their GA review and to Patrick Welsh for their peer review! Phlsph7 (talk) 12:53, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Generalissima's comments

Mark me down for a prose review here. Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 16:21, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Generalissima and thanks for taking a look! I was wondering whether you had some initial comments. Please feel under no obligation if now is not a good time. Phlsph7 (talk) 09:56, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Apologies for my delay on this, Phlsph7! I knew I was forgetting something.

Lede is very solid throughout.
For ontology, in definitions, you need to italicize using the em template or em tags per MOS:EMPHASIS (I think this is for accessibility concerns.)
- Same with bare particular, Haecceity, red, coming before, being next to, etc. later on. There's just a lot of these. The only time you shouldn't be using the em tags/template is for foreign language term, which should use the lang template.
  Done. I'm a little confused about which cases fall under MOS:EMPHASIS and which ones under MOS:WORDSASWORDS. For now, I used the em-template for all cases that do not use expressions like "the term...", "is called...", "means...", etc. I hope I got all. Phlsph7 (talk) 13:02, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Should ontological deflationism be bolded, or redlinked? I feel if it's a possible split in its own right, itd be better to redlink it (especially as the bolding is a bit distracting so far into the article).
You are right that having bold link target so far into the article can be confusing. I can't add a red link since we already have a redirect with that name. As an alternative, I put an anchor right to the paragraph where the bold terms appear and changed the redirect targets so they don't link to main section but right to the anchor. Phlsph7 (talk) 13:02, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
However, not really any prose issues through the thing. I wasn't confused at any points,
Yay, a Deleuze mention. Love that guy.
All images are properly licensed. They also have alt text which is nice to see.

@Phlsph7: Not much here to fix! Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 18:56, 22 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks a lot for reviewing the prose and the images! Phlsph7 (talk) 13:02, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Looks good to me! Support. Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 21:08, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Shapeyness

Another amazing article on a core topic in philosophy! Here are some initial comments from my first read through Shapeyness (talk) 15:30, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hello Shapeyness, it has been a while. Thanks for reviewing the article! Phlsph7 (talk) 17:08, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It is sometimes characterized as first philosophy to suggest that it is more fundamental than other forms of philosophical inquiry. It is probably best to attribute this idea, e.g. "Some philosophers, including Aristotle, designate metaphysics as first philosophy to suggest that it is more fundamental than other forms of philosophical inquiry."
Done. Phlsph7 (talk) 17:08, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Universals are general repeatable entities that characterize particulars, like the color red. Would suggest simplifying or rewording this sentence a bit for the general reader
Done. It's probably still not ideal but I hope it's better now. Phlsph7 (talk) 17:08, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah that's better! :) Shapeyness (talk) 20:23, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
metaphysics was once declared meaningless, and then revived with various criticisms of earlier theories and new approaches to metaphysical inquiry. imo this is a bit vague and awkwardly worded
Done. The new version is hopefull less awkwardly worded but I'm not sure I can do much about the vagueness without making it longer. Phlsph7 (talk) 17:08, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I think that's clear enough now, don't need to make it any longer. Shapeyness (talk) 20:24, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Phillips 1967 and Haack 1979 are relatively old sources to be using for the sentence about Strawson
I found a newer source to replace them. Phlsph7 (talk) 17:46, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks! Should the MacDonald source be citing page 18 instead? Shapeyness (talk) 20:33, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, page 18 supports our text more directly. I changed it. Phlsph7 (talk) 09:21, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Veldsman 2017 and Heidegger 1996 - are these appropriate for the etymology section? On that note, the sources for "Metaphysics got its name by a historical accident" could maybe be better, I would expect them to be from historians/historians of philosophy focusing on Aristotle or etymologists, but maybe I'm missing something?
I removed Veldsman 2017 and Heidegger 1996 since the paragraph is already well-covered by the remaining sources. I found a source on the history of metaphysics for the part about the historical accident. Phlsph7 (talk) 17:46, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Do you have the quote you are using from that source? Shapeyness (talk) 20:34, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
From Hamlyn 2005, p. 590: The term ‘metaphysics’ originated, however, as a title given to some of Aristotle’s works in the catalogue of the edition of them produced by Andronicus of Rhodes in the second half of the first century bc (although it may have come from an earlier library classification). It meant simply the works which followed those on physics in the catalogue. But those works, which were concerned with being, both as such and in respect of various categories of it, especially substance, contain discussions concerning matters which have an obvious continuity with later metaphysical theories. Hence it is reasonable to see Aristotle’s Metaphysics, untidy though it is in the form in which it has come down to us, as the first systematic treatise in metaphysics... Phlsph7 (talk) 09:21, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Ok I was wondering if it used the term historical accident. It doesn't use that phrase but paints the same picture as the other sources. Potentially could attribute "historical accident" phrasing but I'm not sure if that is necessary or not. Shapeyness (talk) 20:16, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I weakened the claim about the historical accident. The exact term "historical accident" is found in the other sources. This became an issue during the DYK nomination since one of the suggested hooks used that expression. See Talk:Metaphysics#Did_you_know_nomination for the discussion and more quotes. Phlsph7 (talk) 09:57, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Metaphysicians often regard existence or being as one of the most basic and general concepts Very minor one but Gibson 1998 and Vallicella 2010 are slightly weaker inclusions in the citation here imo
I removed them since the other references should be sufficient. Phlsph7 (talk) 17:46, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
exist outside space and time This is often used to get the idea across, but really "outside" is an inappropriate concept to use here as it is a spatial concept. The sentence is also quite long, although I didn't have any issue parsing it.
Done. Phlsph7 (talk) 17:59, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The part on the problem of the many could do with some rewording so it's as clear as possible for the general reader
Reformulated. Phlsph7 (talk) 10:15, 10 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

For instance, it raises the issue of whether a dust particle on a tabletop is part of the table. I think this could still do with some motivating, or the reader might just think "why would anyone think a dust particle is a part of the table?" I've not read the cited sources and whether they use particular examples, but could be worded in terms of atoms maybe, not sure what the best way to do it simply is. Shapeyness (talk) 20:45, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I used a different example about a coffee cup and a printer. Another common example focuses on the boundary of a cloud and whether a cloud is one or many. We could also use something else if you have a different idea. Phlsph7 (talk) 10:05, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I was trying to remember what example I'd heard before and it is the cloud one you mentioned. I think that is a more intuitive hook into the question because it it clear that the boundaries of the cloud are ambiguous, and hence that the question of which molecules of water it is that compose the cloud is also ambiguous. Shapeyness (talk) 19:57, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Done, I hope the cloud example is more accessible. Phlsph7 (talk) 12:15, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
They belong to modal metaphysics, which investigates the metaphysical principles underlying them This is a bit weirdly worded
Reformulated. Phlsph7 (talk) 10:15, 10 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
A possible world is a complete and consistent way of how things could have been This is also a bit weirdly worded
Reformulated. Phlsph7 (talk) 10:15, 10 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I read through the sources and I think the wording I'm finding strange is "a way of how", but I guess this is an attempt to avoid close paraphrasing? I would word it A possible world is a complete and consistent way things could have been. I don't think "way things could have been" being a shared wording with some of the sources should be a problem per WP:LIMITED and the fact that a few different sources all seem to use the same wording as a kind of standard definition. Shapeyness (talk) 21:06, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
A possible world is a complete and consistent way the totality of things could have been might also work. Shapeyness (talk) 21:42, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I used your second suggestion. I agree that for the short definition itself, WP:CLOSEPARAPHRASE shouldn't be a problem. Phlsph7 (talk) 10:05, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
McLaughlin 1999 - should this have a chapter/entry?
Added. Phlsph7 (talk) 10:15, 10 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Züricher 2021 - is this a high quality source for metaphysics, it seems to be a psychotherapy handbook
Replaced. Phlsph7 (talk) 10:15, 10 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Imaguire 2018 - this is a bit more specific compared to the other sources in this citation, I think it isn't needed
Removed. Phlsph7 (talk) 14:20, 10 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
For example, the statement "a tomato is red" is true because there exists a red tomato as its truthmaker - as far as I'm aware, truthmakers are generally not identified with ordinary objects like tomatoes, they are usually identified with facts, states of affairs or tropes. Slightly nitpicky but also quite important to the debate I think (I can provide sources if useful).
I think you got a point that various truthmaker theories focus on facts. I tried to reformulate it in a way that leaves either option open so both thing ontologists and fact ontologists can read it the way they want. Phlsph7 (talk) 14:20, 10 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Doesn't this still say that the red tomato is the truthmaker? A truthmaker of a statement is the entity whose existence makes the statement true. For example, the statement "a tomato is red" is true because of the existence of a red tomato as its truthmaker. The problem with the tomato being the truthmaker is that there is a possible world where the tomato is not red, so the tomato doesn't necessitate the truth of the statement. My understanding is that truthmaker theorists will generally say that the truthmaker is "the tomato's being red" or "the redness of the tomato" or "the fact that the tomato is red". Shapeyness (talk) 19:14, 10 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Well, the expression "a red tomato" refers to a particular. The question is probably whether the expression "the existence of a red tomato" can refer to a fact.

The issue of necessitation most likely also depends on how we interpret the expression. Interpreted in a simple manner, a red tomato can't be blue at the same time, so we would be on the safe side. However, if "a red tomato" means "a tomato that is red in the actual world" then the tomato could have a different color in another world.

Our source, Tallant 2017 p. 1–2 (chapter 1. An introduction to truth-making), says: that ‘a tomato is red’ is true is due to there existing a red tomato. ... when we say that ‘ “the tomato is red” is true,’ we say this because there exists a red tomato.

Some alternative formulations:
For example, the existence of a red tomato or the tomato's being red acts as a truthmaker for the statement "a tomato is red".
This version covers several variations.

For example, the statement "a tomato is red" is true because of the fact that a tomato is red as its truthmaker.
This version focuses on facts. It might sound too tautological to some readers.

I'm also open to other suggestions. Phlsph7 (talk) 09:43, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
How about For example, the fact that a tomato exists and that it is red acts as a truthmaker for the statement "a tomato is red"? It mirrors the kind of language the Tallant source uses for other claims (except I explicitly added the word "fact"). I think maybe there isn't a perfect way to reflect the nuance here in a way that will be picked up on by the someone who doesn't know anything about the topic without being overlong. Fwiw I'm drawing from thoughts similar to those in these overviews:
Take an alleged contingent truth about a certain rose, say that <The rose is red>. Clearly, the rose itself cannot be the truthmaker for this proposition, since given that it is contingent that it is red, it is possible for the rose to be another colour. But if it is possible for the rose to be another colour, then the rose itself does not necessitate the truth of <The rose is red> and so it is not its truthmaker. (Rodriguez-Pereyra 2006)

The existence of such an object is not sufficient to satisfy [the truthmaker principle], however. The existence of something which happens to satisfy ‘x is a rose and x is red’ does not entail the truth of 〈The rose is red〉, since the object in question—a rose, which, as it happens, is red—might not have been red, and so there are possible worlds where that object exists yet 〈The rose is red〉 is false. (Beebee & Dodd 2005)

—Shapeyness (talk) 19:10, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Sounds good. I implemented the suggestion and added these two sources. Phlsph7 (talk) 10:47, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Ryckman 2005 - why is a book on philosophy of physics being used as a source on phenomenalism
Replaced. Phlsph7 (talk) 14:20, 10 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The transcendental method is... do we need the sources other than Stern & Cheng 2023?
I also kept Pihlström 2009 since it has a section explicitly dedicated to the transcendental method but I removed the others. Phlsph7 (talk) 17:30, 10 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think we should label Hume a skeptic in Wikipedia's voice when that is a matter of controversy. According to the most recent philpapers survey only 37% of philosophers label Hume a skeptic vs 55% that call him a naturalist (when you filter by those specialising in 17th/18th century philosophy, that goes up to 63%)
I think it uncontroversial that Hume has a skeptical outlook about metaphysical knowledge but I changed the term to "critical outlook" to avoid problems. Phlsph7 (talk) 17:30, 10 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I was thinking more about the discussion in the criticism section but I guess you're right that there's a difference between being skeptical of metaphysics and being a skeptic full stop. Do the sources generally phrase it using the term skepticism? If so then there's probably no problem. I don't have access to all of the sources used for those sentences. Shapeyness (talk) 19:34, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
From Rea 2021, pp. 210–211: A priori theorizing about the world ... has long been viewed with skepticism ... One of the most well-known expressions of this sort of negative attitude toward metaphysics comes from David Hume

From Koons & Pickavance 2015, p. 4: A number of significant thinkers began to sound a new note in the late eighteenth century, raising doubts about the right of metaphysics to stand as a science among other fields of knowledge. David Hume, the great philosopher of Scotland, stands out as pre-eminent among these new antimetaphysicians.

I can look for more, but I think they should be sufficient for the way it is currently worded. Phlsph7 (talk) 09:57, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yep they should be good. Shapeyness (talk) 10:22, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
New scientific discoveries have also influenced existing and inspired new metaphysical theories I think this should be something like "New scientific discoveries have also influenced existing metaphysical theories and inspired new ones."
Changed. Phlsph7 (talk) 17:30, 10 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
History - do you think there is room for a sentence on Locke to fill out the major empiricist philosophers
I found a way to mention him in relation to Hume. Phlsph7 (talk) 17:30, 10 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
At the turn of the 20th century in analytic philosophy, philosophers such as Bertrand Russell (1872–1970) and G. E. Moore (1873–1958) led a "revolt against idealism" Maybe this can be explained slightly (e.g. why? how?), obviously we don't want lots of detail
Done. Phlsph7 (talk) 17:30, 10 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Shapeyness, I was wondering if you felt in a position to either support or oppose this nomination? Obviously, neither is obligatory. Thanks. Gog the Mild (talk) 12:56, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Gog the Mild: Have left some final comments below

Shapeyness (talk) 14:09, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for responding to those Phlsph7! Some more below, should hopefully be the final set of comments. Shapeyness (talk) 14:08, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

A related mereological problem is whether there are simple entities that have no parts, as atomists claim, or not, as continuum theorists contend. I think it would be clearer to list both options here, e.g. "A related mereological problem is whether there are simple entities that have no parts, as atomists claim, or whether everything can be endlessly subdivided into smaller parts, as continuum theorists contend."
Done. Phlsph7 (talk) 17:14, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The history of metaphysics examines how the inquiry into the basic structure of reality has evolved in the course of history. Imo this is redundant and the following sentence would be a stronger start
Removed. Phlsph7 (talk) 17:14, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
"The American Heritage Dictionary Entry: Existence" Believe the title should just be "Existence"
Changed. Phlsph7 (talk) 17:14, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Retrieved date seems to be used inconsistently unless I'm missing something, not sure if that needs to be consistent per 2c or not
I removed them from all Google Book links, where they don't really belong. Did you spot other inconsistencies? Phlsph7 (talk) 18:05, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'm still not sure what the logic behind which have a retrieved date and which don't but this is such a minor point anyway. Shapeyness (talk) 13:13, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
A lot of the sources have urls linked from the book title that I think should be linked from the chapter title
I think this happens for cite templates that use the parameter "url". For all templates that specify a chapter, I changed the parameter "url" to "chapter-url". I hope this solves the problem. Phlsph7 (talk) 17:14, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Chen 2023 - is this a high quality source for history of philosophy?
This is one of the sources by a non-Western publisher. For them, I'm usually a little less strict since they can be hard to find. But let me know if you think otherwise. The sentence is covered by the remaining soures and this one could be removed. Phlsph7 (talk) 17:39, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Duignan 2009a - why is this 2009a and not just 2009?
Done. Phlsph7 (talk) 17:14, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Goffi & Roux 2011 - this is missing editors
Added. Phlsph7 (talk) 17:29, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Kind 2018 - I think part of the book title should actually be the series title
Changed. Phlsph7 (talk) 17:29, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Macnamara 2009 - is this a hiqh quality source for philosophy?
Removed. Phlsph7 (talk) 17:39, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Mumford 2003 - this is missing editors
Mumford is given as the editor in the template. I didn't add an author. The author would usually be Russell since the book is mostly a selection of Russell's writings but the passage in question is a comment by Mumford. I'm not sure if this is the best practice. Phlsph7 (talk) 17:29, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oops no that was a mistake from me. Shapeyness (talk) 18:01, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Poidevin et al. 2009 - this is an edited collection, should an individual chapter/chapters be cited?
Done. Phlsph7 (talk) 17:29, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Some more general comments: reading over the overview sources, there aren't any major areas that aren't covered although a few cover social metaphysics a bit more (having said that, some don't mention it at all). Also, the article mentions truthmakers, but it doesn't go much into theories of truth - a few of the overviews have truth as a high level section. Obviously there can never be a completely comprehensive article so fine to leave out if you think these would overexpand the article. This might be a reflection of the discipline across history, but I also can't see any philosophers mentioned that aren't men.
I added a sentence on theories of truth. In principle, it could be expanded, but I'm not sure that we should. I found a way to mention Hypatia. I'm open to more suggestions. Phlsph7 (talk) 10:21, 22 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I don't have a broad enough knowledge of the history of philosophy to know which female philosophers would be the best to include sadly, but Anscombe might be worth a mention in relation to the idea that causation can be non-deterministic. Her SEP article has a good section if she isn't mentioned in any of the sources in that part already. Shapeyness (talk) 01:19, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I added a footnote to the section on causality. Phlsph7 (talk) 09:51, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support: While I think it would be nice for there to be more representation of philosophers who aren't men in the main body of the article, and perhaps more discussion of social metaphysics, I don't think either of these prevent the article from meeting the FA criteria. The article is as accessible as possible throughout, covers all major areas to at least some extent without delving into too much detail, and is well-structured, illustrated and cited. Shapeyness (talk) 13:21, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

750h

Will review once the above leaves their final comments. 750 h+ 23:18, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi 750, I think we are ready for you. Gog the Mild (talk) 13:26, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oops, sorry will get to this 750 h+ 13:28, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I shouldn't have too many comments as I reviewed this article as a GA. Feel free to refuse my suggestions with proper justification. Will begin tomorrow (it's late night in Australia at the moment). 750 h+ 13:41, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

lead

have more recently also included ==> "have recently included"
Changed. Phlsph7 (talk) 13:34, 30 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

definition

Meta-metaphysics[d] is the this shouldn't be bolded (or would be preferable to mention/bold it in the lead)
I removed the boldface. Phlsph7 (talk) 13:34, 30 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

topics

a table is made up of a tabletop would reduce number of words for conciseness (comprises, consists of)
Changed. Phlsph7 (talk) 13:34, 30 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
a cloud is made up of many droplets ^^
Changed. Phlsph7 (talk) 13:34, 30 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
numerical identity when the very same entity is involved is "very" required?
Removed. Phlsph7 (talk) 13:34, 30 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
principle, known as identity of indiscernibles or Leibniz's Law ==> "principle, known as the identity of indiscernibles or Leibniz's Law"
Changed. Phlsph7 (talk) 13:34, 30 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

methodology

metaphysical systems by drawing conclusions from these ==> "metaphysical systems by concluding from these"
I kept the original formulation to avoid misunderstandings since "concluding" can also mean "bring to an end". Phlsph7 (talk) 13:34, 30 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

criticism

point is called metaphysical or ontological deflationism i don't think these should be bolded
Done. Phlsph7 (talk) 13:34, 30 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

relation to other disciplines

often used by metaphysicians as a tool to engage "as a tool" seems redundant
Removed. Phlsph7 (talk) 13:34, 30 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

history

No problems here.

As always great work on the article @Phlsph7: I do apologise for the late review. 750 h+ 11:45, 30 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi 750h+ and thanks for your help with the article both in this review and the earlier GA review! Phlsph7 (talk) 13:34, 30 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Happy to support. Thanks for the article. 750 h+ 13:38, 30 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Image review - Pass

File:Aristotle, Metaphysics, Incunabulum.jpg: checks out (there is a more elegant way to display the licences -- see the Hume painting -- but the necessary information is all there)
I simplified the license tags. Phlsph7 (talk) 10:13, 28 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
File:Kant_gemaelde_1.jpg: likewise.
I simplified the license tags. Phlsph7 (talk) 10:13, 28 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
File:Dualism-vs-Monism.png: The licensing here is fine, but it includes statements of fact, and I don't see a citation on the image page for that information. If we wouldn't be able to write "Cartesian duality sees both matter and mind as fundamental" in the text without a citation, we can't write it in an image without one either.
I added a source to the caption in the article and to the wiki commons page. Phlsph7 (talk) 10:13, 28 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
File:Allan Ramsay - David Hume, 1711 - 1776. Historian and philosopher - Google Art Project.jpg: checks out.
File:Yin yang.svg: checks out.
File:Boethius.jpeg: really needs to be licensed as PD-Art (like the Hume painting etc).
Added. Phlsph7 (talk) 10:13, 28 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
File:ANWhitehead.jpg: I don't see any publication info for this one?
I added the relevant information and an external link. Phlsph7 (talk) 10:13, 28 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The alt texts are not always particularly helpful -- for instance, we have "Painting of Immanuel Kant" for, well, a painting of Kant. The point of an alt text is to substitute for the visual image for a reader who cannot see it -- can you, here, describe what Kant looks like in the picture? UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 15:26, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hello UndercoverClassicist and thanks for the image review! I add some information to the alt texts but more could be added. I'm not sure what the right amount of detail is since the different aspects of body posture, dress, and background are not really relevant to the article. Phlsph7 (talk) 10:13, 28 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I tend to try and think: "what do I expect a viewer to take away here?". After all, I included that image for a reason, not just to break up the text or to make the article look prettier. For Kant, for example, most readers will clock that this is an eighteenth-century, old-ish, posh, white guy, so I might write an alt text to that effect: "An oil painting of a European man in his seventies, wearing eighteenth-century formal dress, leaning on a table with pens and ink." UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 17:26, 28 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, I gave it one more try. Phlsph7 (talk) 10:07, 29 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Looks good for the portraits, but doesn't seem to have been done for the other images. Same principle applies: what visual information (so: not the name of the artist, because you can't see that in the picture) should the reader take away from this image/diagram? UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 13:10, 30 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I expanded the alt-texts of the images of Aristotle's metaphysics, the dualism-monism diagram, and the yin-yang symbol. Phlsph7 (talk) 14:26, 30 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Source review

I am not certain that I can possibly comment on the "comprehensive and thorough" part of the FAC criteria, so keep that in mind. Also a whole lot of sources, which suggests comprehensiveness, but means I might miss some bad sources. What's the logic between some sauces having retrieval dates and archives and others not having them? Why are some references linking to Google Books pages and others aren't? Looks like we are using major albeit mostly Western publishers, and the few I didn't know I checked the sources up a bit. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 10:00, 28 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hello Jo-Jo Eumerus and thanks for doing the source review! I added retrieval dates for "cite web" templates. For the purpose of verification, this may be relevant in case the website changes so reviewers know which version to look for. Retrieval dates are also automatically added if an archive link is added to a template, which also makes sense so reviewers know which version is archived. I don't think there are any other templates in the article with retrieval dates but I may have missed some. As for the archives, InternetArchiveBot has not been working for me recently, so I can't add any new archives. One solution for consistency would be to just remove all archives. I'm not sure if that is desirable.

I usually link to Google Books pages if they provide a page preview to make it easier for reviewers to assess verifiability. However, not all Google Books pages offer page previews, so this is not always possible. The overrepresentation of sources by Western publishers in the article reflects the general prevalence of Western publishers regarding high-quality English-language sources on the subject. It can be challenging to track down sources from other regions that fulfill the FA high-quality requirements, but I could try to find some more if it is a problem. Phlsph7 (talk) 12:54, 28 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

One thing to keep in mind is that Google Books tends to be geolocked and personalized. So a link working for you doesn't mean that it will work for anyone else. Thus I generally don't think that putting links to Google Books pages is useful. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 13:32, 30 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I agree that these links are not ideal and that it is preferable to use non-commercial sources. However, other sources often do not provide page previews. Without simple previews, the problem is that running to a library or buying a book is a significant barrier to verification, especially if it's just about a single sentence. Clicking on a link to verify a sentence, on the other hand, requires very little work. Overall, I think the links are worth having in cases where no non-commercial alternatives are available. This matter is also discussed at Wikipedia:Google Books and Wikipedia. Phlsph7 (talk) 14:31, 30 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Jo-Jo Eumerus anything further to add to the source review? Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs ^talk 18:22, 12 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think that links that are only useful to a fraction of readers (unlike a paywalled link, I don't think there is a way for a Google Books link to be usable) are necessary, so I wouldn't keep the Google Books links. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 11:14, 14 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It seems to me that Google Books links are common in FA articles. For example, each of the most recent TFAs (Apollo 12, Jack the Ripper Stalks His Victims, Algebra, Len Deighton) has Google Books links. We could try to resolve at WT:FAC whether they are acceptable in principle. However, I presume there have already been various discussions without any consensus in favor of a hard rule against them. Phlsph7 (talk) 12:05, 14 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Jo-Jo Eumerus: Do you think that the article can pass the source review without removing the links to Google Books? If not, I would ask at WT:FAC whether their use is prohibited by the FA criteria. Phlsph7 (talk) 08:52, 17 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It certainly could. There are a fair amount of things I see in FAC that I don't like seeing in FAs but which I am unsure about challenging at FAC b/c it's not always clear what's just my preference and what's an actionable issue. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 09:45, 17 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Query

@FAC coordinators: Could someone take a look at the nomination? It just entered its 3rd month and has 3 supports, a source review, and an image review. Phlsph7 (talk) 11:01, 30 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

PJW comments

Hi Phlsph7,

Great work here, as usual. I wasn't planning to review this again, but I was pinged by one of the coordinators seeking the opinion of someone with a philosophy background. (That is just to say, sorry for coming in so late and raising new issues.)

Other editors should please feel free to interject—especially if you think I'm being overly pedantic or otherwise unreasonable.

I want to raise one general issue, which I don't intend to pursue too far — since it seems not to be shared by previous reviewers — and a handful of specific issues that I think should be fairly easy to address.

The general issue:

Many metaphysical positions are named without any sort of context. There's some stuff that I know goes back to antiquity, and other stuff I'm pretty sure didn't emerge until the 20th century. In some cases, though, I don't know, and I find that disorienting. Is this something that was argued over in the Roman Forum and has been ever since? Or was it first presented in the pages of Noûs? This makes a difference to me, and I suspect it will also make a difference to other readers who, like me, are not experts, but who have enough existing knowledge to be actively trying to organize and assimilate new information from the article.

In some cases this would probably just be awkward or distracting, but I think there is room for improvement. For instance, I was grateful to read The regularity theory of causation, inspired by David Hume's philosophy, states... just because I knew we were somewhere in the modern period. More of these kind of contextual clues is what I have in mind, wherever feasible.

If it would be helpful, I could flag instances with inline maintenance tags for your consideration.

More specific notes:

Kant distinguishes transcendent metaphysics, which aims to describe the objective features of reality beyond sense experience, from critical metaphysics, which outlines the aspects and principles underlying all human thought and experience. Kant does not use the term "critical metaphysics" (or at least not in the Critique of Pure Reason or Metaphysical Foundations of Natural Science). If it comes from Allen Wood, it's fine, but if it's not from a Kant scholar, we should figure out something better. (Some very quick research turns up A841/B869ff. as a strong primary source from which to take guidance, should that be useful.)
This is the term used in Loux & Crisp 2017 p. 7 and Bengtson 2015 p. 23, but the exact expression is not important here, so I reformulated it. Phlsph7 (talk) 14:13, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Applied metaphysics is a relatively young subdiscipline. Can this be made more specific? It's unclear what counts as young in a 2,500+ year discipline.
Done. Phlsph7 (talk) 14:13, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
To exist means to form part of reality "To form" reads strangely to me, and it might also be a problematic formulation since form is, itself, a metaphysical concept. I would be fine with just "to be". Another option would be "to be a part of reality".
Changed. Phlsph7 (talk) 14:13, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Descriptor for Meinong?
Added. Phlsph7 (talk) 14:13, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Plato held that Platonic forms, which are perfect and immutable ideas, have a higher degree of existence than matter, which can only imperfectly reflect Platonic forms. Maybe a footnote on the scholarly disagreement about how much of what he put in the mouth of his Socrates character Plato himself actually believed?
Added. Phlsph7 (talk) 14:13, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Unless Wikipedia has its own conventions, "e.g." needs a comma just like the English equivalent "for instance".)
Added. Phlsph7 (talk) 14:13, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Can you expand the footnote on individuals? Or, maybe better, just remove the claim that it's interchangeable with "particulars"? In the German philosophy I know, particularity (Besonderheit) is logically distinguished from the singular (Einzelne), which is further distinct from the philosophical term individuality (Individualität) introduced by Leibniz. I see no reason to introduce this kind of confusion into such a general article.
I removed the claim about alternative terminology. Phlsph7 (talk) 14:13, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Causality is the relation between cause and effect whereby one entity produces or affects another entity. I think that "affects" is indeed correct here, because "effects" would be redundant. But maybe change it to "changes" or "alters" so that readers don't get distracted trying to figure out whether it's a typo?
Changed. Phlsph7 (talk) 14:13, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
According to idealism, everything is mental, including physical objects, which may be understood as ideas or perceptions of conscious minds. The three most famous idealists are probably Berkeley, Kant, and Hegel. This description is at best tendentious as a characterization of Kant and it is false of Hegel. Maybe a footnote on the distinctions between subjective, transcendental, and objective/absolute idealism? The idealism article draws heavily on a recent work by two excellent scholars. You might be able to crib something from there.
I remember we had a similar point for the article Mind. I adjusted the terminology and added a footnote to inform the reader that this position is not necessarily true for other types of idealism. Phlsph7 (talk) 14:13, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I knew we'd discussed this before! Just couldn't remember where.

My ideal version of the article would go into a little more detail, but I think the footnote is fine. Interested readers can follow the Wikilinks or look at the sources. Patrick (talk) 17:16, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The "Criticism" section would benefit from a paragraph on the first Critique probably highlighting the Transcendental Dialectic. I could draft something if you want.
I think a full paragraph is too much since the criticism based on limited cognitive abilities is already discussed in the first paragraph. I added the example of Kant there. Phlsph7 (talk) 14:13, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I think I need to push back on this one. Feel free to say so if you think I'm unduly influenced by my own philosophical sympathy for the tradition of German Idealism.

The current version of language is precise and accurate. It is misleading, however, to present Kant's arguments as an extension of Hume's, to whose skeptical arguments they were explicitly a response.

Kant uses the language of faculty psychology, but he claims to be defining the a priori limits and contradictions of pure reason itself. He took himself to be overthrowing over a thousand years of allegedly "dogmatic" metaphysical thought, and many philosophers in his day and ours have at least partially accepted his contention.

Even in the 21st-century United States, it's basically mandatory to have someone who can teach Kant in even small philosophy departments—and it's not unusual for larger departments with graduate programs to have more than one Kant specialist. His influence is much larger than that of logical positivism or Heidegger/Derrida, which both have their own paragraphs, and I do not think this is only because he has century on them. Patrick (talk) 17:29, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The current version does not present Kant as an extension of Hume. It says that according to one type of criticism, humans cannot aquire metaphysical knowledge. It gives Hume and Kant as two examples of this position. The sentence on Hume is a little longer than the sentence on Kant so we could add a little extra information on Kant. Do you have something specific in mind?

Looking at Van Inwagen, Sullivan & Bernstein 2023, § 5. Is Metaphysics Possible?, it has one sentence specifically on Hume, one sentence specifically on Kant, and roughly two paragraphs on logical positivism. Since this source is quite short, we could have a look at more sources, but I'm not sure that Kant is significantly more important in this specific context than Hume or logical positivism. Phlsph7 (talk) 17:54, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It does not say that Kant is an extension of Hume, but it is misleading to describe as presenting as "a similar objection" a book that explicitly claims to refute the basic position of Hume.

The content I have in mind is what I have already described, which is found mostly in the Prefaces to the first Critique and at the overview sections at the beginning and end of the Transcendental Dialectic. This material will feature prominently in any general introduction to Kant and will also be included in any general introduction to Western philosophy.

I'm afraid, however, I must beg off any sourcing debates, as these have been non-productive in the past. I'm going to give either support or weak support for promotion depending upon whether I think you've adequately addressed the concerns I raise. Just please take what's useful. Patrick (talk) 18:22, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Fair enough. I reformulated the introductory clause to avoid the term "similar" and I expanded the explanation of Kant's position to include ideas from the Transcendental Dialectic. Phlsph7 (talk) 14:01, 1 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I still find the paragraph on computer science to be off-topic—even under the header "Relation to other disciplines". It's perfectly well-written and appears well-sourced, but it's just not what's described in the "Definitions" section at the beginning. Maybe another reviewer could weigh in so that there is a consensus of at least two in either direction? It's hardly a deal-breaker for FAC, but I think this article would be stronger without it.
This topic is discussed in Hawley's 2016 article "Applied Metaphysics" as one of the main sections, so I don't think it's off-topic. The question would probably be more whether our article gives too much weight to this topic. The paragraph currently stands at 165 words. On solution might be to reduce the length. Phlsph7 (talk) 14:33, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That would be a good middle ground. Maybe though give other editors at least another day to weigh in on entirely keeping or removing it? If I'm off-base here, I'd rather just be overruled than make a compromise that leaves neither of us quite happy. Patrick (talk) 17:32, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Starting in the 4th century BCE, Hellenistic philosophy explored the rational order underlying the cosmos and the idea that it is made up of indivisible atoms. This is true, but atomism predates the Hellenistic period. I would consider leaving that part out and maybe just expanding on the conception of the universe as an ordered cosmos.
Done. Phlsph7 (talk) 14:25, 1 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
It maybe just seemed too obvious to mention, but the influence of Christianity on Medieval thought merits at least a sentence or two.
I included this in the first sentence of the paragraph. Phlsph7 (talk) 14:25, 1 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
William of Ockham (1285–1347 CE) proposed Ockham's razor, a methodological principles to choose between competing metaphysical theories. Unless he actually did name it after himself, I would find some way to reword.
Reformulated. Phlsph7 (talk) 14:46, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I would add some kind of description of the social context marking the beginning of the modern period. For this article, it would probably be enough just to say something about the Scientific Revolution.
I mentioned the Renaissance instead since this is how Hamlyn 2005 proceeds. Phlsph7 (talk) 14:37, 1 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Hobbes is mostly known as a political philosopher today, but he took a very strong metaphysical stance that scandalized many at the time. I'd give him a sentence along with the others in that paragraph. (Nice to see Wolff included, by the way—massively influential, even if no longer read by non-specialists.)
Which specific position of Hobbes do you have in mind? Hamlyn 2005 does not mention him and Hancock 2006 only has two sentences: "Thomas Hobbes, for example, argued that the accidents of body, such as shape or hardness, are the very "manner of our conception of body." To ask for a description of body apart from its accidents would be, for Hobbes, a senseless request." Phlsph7 (talk) 17:31, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'm thinking of the first seven or so chapters of Leviathan. I haven't studied Hobbes closely enough to have a position on him that would be OR, but I don't recall what I read that left me with such a strong impression of his controversial materialism. In spite of his professed Christianity, he was widely regarded as an atheist not to be associated with. A very quick skim of the SEP entry seems to support this. Patrick (talk) 17:48, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'll keep the idea in mind in case I come across an overview source that gives more attention to Hobbes but the ones I checked so far don't seem to give him a particularly prominent role in the history of metaphysics. Phlsph7 (talk) 14:41, 1 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel (1770–1831) developed a comprehensive system of philosophy that examines how absolute spirit manifests itself. It's just spirit that manifests itself; what's absolute is just a certain form of its self-knowledge. It might be best, though, to find some less cryptic way to describe Hegel. Readers who don't already know are unlikely to correctly guess much of what he means by "spirit".
I removed the word "absolute" but I'm also open to other suggestions. Phlsph7 (talk) 17:31, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The centerpiece of Hegel's metaphysics is his Logic, in which spirit is mentioned only incidentally. What about something like this: "Hegel's idealistic contention is that reality is conceptual all the way down, and being itself is rational."
Sources:
- Houlgate, Stephen (2005). An introduction to Hegel: Freedom, Truth, and History (2nd ed.). Blackwell. p. 106
- Stern, Robert (2008). "Hegel's Idealism". In Frederick C. (ed.). The Cambridge Companion to Hegel and Nineteenth-Century Philosophy. Cambridge University Press. p. 172
Georg_Wilhelm_Friedrich_Hegel#Dialectics,_speculation,_idealism could also be mined for alternatives. Patrick (talk) 21:04, 1 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Sounds good, I replaced the sentence with your suggestion. Phlsph7 (talk) 17:27, 2 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Heidegger's philosophy inspired general criticisms of metaphysics by postmodern thinkers like Jacques Derrida (1930–2004). I would nix "postmodern thinkers". Aside from the issues with this being an American term applied quite sloppily to a disparate group of French philosophers, the main thing that actually does (at least kind of) unite them is disillusionment with Marxism, not any metaphysical commitments.
Removed. Phlsph7 (talk) 17:31, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I am following and will try to respond promptly to queries. I do not expect to propose any changes beyond those above.

Cheers, Patrick (talk) 03:57, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hello Patrick and thanks for answering the call to take another look at the article! Concerning the general issue, I don't think there are hard rules about how much historical context to provide. If a position can be traced back to a single author, this is often easy to do without distracting from the main point being discussed. In cases where the historical context is more complex, I usually find it better to focus on the position itself and leave the discussion of its historical evolution to the history section or the child article dedicated to the topic. If you have some specific cases in mind, you could list them here and we could have a look at how feasible it is to briefly mention their historical context. Phlsph7 (talk) 14:06, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not suggesting that historicize everything, which would indeed quickly become unmanageable. More historical markers, however, would help orient readers who have a little knowledge of the history of philosophy (which is probably not unusual among those who read past the lead). This would also assist such readers with their comprehension of the subject matter because they would be able to supply background context not possible to include in the article.

The first section where I became confused was the opening paragraph of "Particulars". The language of "substratum" made me think of Aristotle and hypokeimenon, bundles made me think of Hume, and haecceity is Scholastic. Even if there's no specific philosopher to whom substratum theory can be attributed, it would be nice to at least have some indication of the period in which they were synthesized into a unified theory (this, of course, on the assumption my associations are correct). This could be as general as "in the modern period" or "analytic philosophers, building on a lengthy tradition, formulated".

"Mereology" is a daunting word, but it would be easy to mention that the topic goes back to at least Plato. (Incidentally, I've pretty much only seen what the article calls the "problem of the many" called "the problem of the one and the many". Follow the sources, obviously, but readers looking for more would probably have better luck searching for the longer name.)

In the next section, "Universals" a clause could be added to mention that the nominalist—conceptualist debate began in the Middle Ages or that it is Scholastic in origin.

Wherever it's not possible to include this kind of information with the addition of a simple clause or a very short sentence, I agree that it should be omitted.

If you're set against this, I'm not interested in arguing the point. But I don't think it would take long or noticeably add to the length of the article to go through add such information where this can be done in a way that will not distract readers from the actual topic of discussion.

Oh, and a Happy New Year to you and the other editors who have been working on this!

Cheers, Patrick (talk) 21:30, 1 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I found ways to include your suggestions, either as brief remarks in the text or with help of footnotes. I think the terms "the problem of the many" and "the problem of the one and the many" are both used, possibly with slightly different meanings. Our explanation follows the Stanford Encyclopedia article "The Problem of the Many", so in terms of terminology, we should be on the safe side. Happy New Year to you as well! Phlsph7 (talk) 17:26, 2 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, great. I would have continued to go through and include more historical markers. But, although I think this would further improve the article, it is a matter about which reasonable people may disagree editorially and philosophically. I'm not going to insist.

Just a few final point:

According to the orthodox view, existence is a property of properties I missed this when transferring my markup of the article to this page. "Orthodox" is quite strong. Are the sources strong enough to support it? If in doubt, perhaps chose a different word or add some kind of qualification or attribution.
Should "substratum theory" wikilink to Substance theory? If so, would it be worth also creating a redirect?
Since no one has spoken up about the computer science material, perhaps just shorten it a little, if possible?

Otherwise, I have reviewed your edits and am satisfied that my concerns have been addressed.

Cheers, Patrick (talk) 19:08, 2 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Casati & Fujikawa use the term "orthodox view" in their lead section. I changed it to "traditionally influential view", which I hope gets the same message across. I added the wikilink to substance theory and I reduced the computer science paragraph to under 100 words. Thanks again for your review! Phlsph7 (talk) 12:39, 3 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

You're most welcome!

I've now read the article from start to finish several times. It was in great condition when I started this review, and I hope that my comments have further improved it. Although I have not responded to all responses here (because I'm trying to work quickly and there are a lot of separate threads), I have individually reviewed all edits. Even where the nom proceeded differently than I would have, I understand and accept their rationale.

For these reasons, I am happy to add my support to the promotion of this article. Patrick (talk) 14:21, 3 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Drive-by comment

I ran (just) the draft TFA blurb past a philosopher of my acquaintance. She was happy apart from querying "some theorists view it as an inquiry into the fundamental categories of human understanding", as she would have considered this epistemology. She did not read the article, so would I be correct in assuming that 1. this was a misunderstanding caused by her missing the significance of "categories", and 2. that this is still a view held by a significent proportion of theorists? Gog the Mild (talk) 20:06, 4 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Hello Gog and thanks for the draft of the TFA blurp! The alternative definition is discussed in our article in the 4th paragraph of the section "Definition". From Loux & Crisp 2017 Metaphysics: A Contemporary Introduction p. 1: [The aim of metaphysical knowledge] is to delineate the most general structures at work in our thought about the world. This Kantian conception of metaphysics continues to enjoy popularity among contemporary philosophers, who insist that metaphysics has as its aim the characterization of our conceptual scheme or conceptual framework.

Your philosopher acquaintance is right that there is a connection to epistemology since one of the reasons for this definition of metaphysics comes from epistemology. Epistemology is the study of knowledge and some philosophers argue that we can't know ultimate reality but we can know the conceptual framework of human understanding, which is why they define metaphysics this way. Phlsph7 (talk) 11:35, 5 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

By the way, I replaced "fundamental categories" with "conceptual framework" to avoid misunderstandings about the term "categories" and to stay closer to the language in the source. Phlsph7 (talk) 11:51, 5 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Cite 159: Remes 2014 should be 'pp.", not "p.".
Fixed. Phlsph7 (talk) 13:48, 5 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Ásta 2017, any reason why her full name is not given? (Ásta Kristjana Sveinsdóttir)
In the book, the author is simply given as "Ásta" and our article says that she publishes as "Ásta". I'm not sure what the best approach is for this type of case. An alternative would be to give her full name and cite her using her last name "Sveinsdóttir". Phlsph7 (talk) 13:48, 5 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

It's an Icelandic name; the last name is a patronymic. Icelandic people are generally referred to by their given name only, even in formal/written contexts, unless there's some potential ambiguity with another person of the same name. If you did want to distinguish her in this way, you'd call her "Ásta Sveins".UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 13:58, 5 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Well yeah. :-) I believe the usual treatment of Icelandic names is Sveinsdottir as the lastname and Ásta as firstname. Ambiguity: try Professor John Smith. My favourite is [2].

Not quite: see Wikipedia:WikiProject Iceland/Style advice. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 14:35, 5 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I checked a few other publications like [3] and [4]. They also just use "Ásta", so I think we are following the established practice here. Phlsph7 (talk) 15:48, 5 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Sources: where a source is a chapter or similar of a book or similar the page range should be given.

Gog the Mild (talk) 13:08, 5 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Done. I had to skip a few that are primarily available online, such as the articles from the Routledge Encyclopedia of Philosophy. Phlsph7 (talk) 15:40, 5 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Closing note: This candidate has been promoted, but there may be a delay in bot processing of the close. Please see WP:FAC/ar, and leave the {{featured article candidates}} template in place on the talk page until the bot goes through. Gog the Mild (talk) 20:53, 5 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.