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Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/John B. Creeden/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was archived by David Fuchs via FACBot (talk) 11 December 2023 [1].


Nominator(s): Ergo Sum 15:14, 13 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

This article is about a Jesuit and university president who played a major role in the creation of the modern Georgetown University. He was responsible for the eventual creation of the School of Foreign Service and he founded Boston College Law School. He also drew up plans for what would be the creation of the Gothic section of Georgetown's campus. Ergo Sum 15:14, 13 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Image review

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Comments from HAL

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Comments soon. ~ HAL333 14:43, 22 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hi HAL333, I was wondering if these were still on their way? Otherwise I shall be giving the "this is in danger of timing out" warning. Thanks. Gog the Mild (talk) 13:20, 4 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Long belated comments:

Looks great otherwise and is certainly of featured quality. ~ HAL333 17:42, 4 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you very much for your review, HAL333. Ergo Sum 17:48, 4 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Hal333 and Ergo Sum: please remember the tq template can't be used at FAC as it slows down load time and affects archives; right now, the entire FAC page is not accessible to all users, so I've switched out some. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 00:05, 10 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Dugan Murphy

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I'll take a look and write some comments soon. Dugan Murphy (talk) 19:25, 27 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Overall: I didn't review the images, citations, or sources. Though, I did glance at the sources, and they all looked pretty legit. I didn't notice any titles that seemed really Creeden-specific, so I did a really really basic search on Google Books, JSTOR, and my statewide library for titles and couldn't find anything. That is my way of saying that I am willing to believe that the sources listed represent a reasonably wide breadth of available scholarship on the topic. Though I knew absolutely nothing about Creeden or the schools mentioned before reading this article, the article itself doesn't seem to have any glaring holes in covering the man's life, so I think it is pretty comprehensive. Yet, it doesn't go into too much detail anywhere, I think. And the tone throughout is very encyclopedic and clear. Well done.

Fun fact that has no bearing on this nomination: Creeden's predecessor, Patrick Francis Healy, is the brother of James Augustine Healy, who was the bishop where I live for 25 years. I guide walking tours by his old cathedral and tell guests about Bishop Healy. He has an amazing story. Dugan Murphy (talk) 21:49, 27 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Very interesting. And a small world. The Healy family is quite fascinating. Thank you for your review. Ergo Sum 16:17, 2 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
No problem. I support this nomination based on the reasons stated above. If you have the time to do some reviewing of your own, this current FAC nomination of mine is in need of attention. I thank you in advance if you are able to take a look at the article and leave some comments. Dugan Murphy (talk) 22:12, 2 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Source review

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Spot-check upon request. Source formatting seems consistent and sources seem reliable, but I notice that a rather large amount of sources is affiliated with Georgetown and the Jesuits - is he primarily discussed by these? Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 09:34, 10 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Ergo Sum, are you planning to respond to Jo-Jo's concern about the sources associated with Georgetown and the Jesuits? FrB.TG (talk) 11:20, 23 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Apologies, I meant to get back to this and it slipped my mind. This was an issue that was broached in my last FAC. It appears that Creeden is discussed in detail primarily by Jesuit-affiliated sources, some directly published by the Jesuits, others published by institutions affiliated with the Jesuits, and others stilled only written by people affiliated with the Jesuits. That is, there are various levels of Jesuit control over the publications. In any event, it does not appear to me that any of the sources used engage in hagiography and generally bear inidicia of reliability. Ergo Sum 04:13, 24 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Hmm, tough to say. If substantial coverage by independent sources was a requirement for FA, I doubt this would pass. As it stands the article does not mention anything that would make me demand independent coverage. I've done some looking around myself and there are a fair few sources discussing political activities of the university and mentioning Creeden; did he play a role in them?

Also, from a close paraphrase perspective, I wonder if "On November 20, 1921, Creeden received Ferdinand Foch, the French marshal and Commander-in-Chief of the Allied Armies, and presented him with an honorary Doctor of Civil and Canon Laws degree, as well as a golden sword on behalf of the American Jesuits." is unduly similar to the source's "On November 20, 1921, Creeden received French Marshal Ferdinand Foch at Georgetown and awarded him an honorary degree of Doctor of Canon and Civil Laws. Marshal Foch was also presented a gold sword on behalf of the American Society of Jesus", it's admittedly not the easiest sentence to paraphrase.

Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 07:49, 24 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Indeed, not the easiest to paraphrase. I tweaked the phrasing a bit to make it less close to the source. I will take a look at those sources. Ergo Sum 20:04, 24 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Jo-Jo Eumerus: I have gone through those sources and everything I have found either is already in the article or is not really worthy of mention in a biographical article about Creeden. Ergo Sum 22:49, 28 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.