Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Johann Reinhold Forster/archive1

Johann Reinhold Forster

Featured article candidates/Johann Reinhold Forster/archive1

Nominator(s): —Kusma (talk) 20:17, 9 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

This article is about the naturalist on the second voyage of James Cook. He quarrelled with everybody and anybody, spent all of his money on books and was long described as "one of the Admiralty's vast mistakes". He published on entomology, botany, ornithology and mineralogy and translated travel literature. By training, he was a Reformed pastor; I present here the story how he became one of the first people to cross the Antarctic Circle. —Kusma (talk) 20:17, 9 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Image review

File:Johann_Reinhold_Forster,_engraving_by_Bause_after_Graff.png needs a US tag. Ditto File:Schleuen_-_Joachimsthalische_Gymnasium_1757.jpg, File:Joseph_Banks_West.jpg, File:KarlAbrahamZedlitzDBerger1782.jpg

File:Forsterundsohn.jpg: the description mentions a publication in 1976, but was it published before 1930? Nikkimaria (talk) 04:52, 10 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for the review. I have added US PD tags (and evidence of publication). We discussed Forsterundsohn a few years ago at Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/A Voyage Round the World/archive1: copies were for sale in Germany per mail order in 1860. —Kusma (talk) 09:15, 10 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Noleander

Overall, great article. Having a hard time finding things to comment on.

Forster died from an aortic aneurysm that he had himself diagnosed as sclerosis of the aorta including a distension at the left ventricle. Ambigous: "distension at the L ventricle" .... was that part of the self-diagnosis? Or part of the reason for death? or both?
I just removed the self-diagnosis.
Better word: .. and was in debt, he turned to Germany .. suggest "returned" instead of "turned". Why make reader guess if he actually went to Germany or not?
done
Clarify: ... six weeks before Cook's work and... What "work" of Cook? Either name the work, or link to it, or spell out "Cooks narrative of the voyage". I gather the work is A Voyage Towards the South Pole, and Round the World : performed in His Majesty's ships the Resolution and Adventure, in the years 1772, 1773, 1774, and 1775 ? It appears that Cook's work was never as famous as George's work? If so, maybe mention that.
Yes, that one. I will mention it in the later section, not in the lead. Cook's work was also quite famous, but I haven't written the article yet. (See A Voyage Round the World for a contemporary comparative review).
Too many books :-) In section Johann_Reinhold_Forster#Return_to_England_and_controversies .... I'm getting confused about the accounts of the voyage: there were three? one by Forster, one by son George; and one by Cook? Plus 4th book "Characteres generum plantarum". Some readers might benefit from a sentence near the top of this section enumerating the works, so they can get them straight in their heads as the article reveals the publication details & conflicts, etc. E.g. The voyage resulted in the publication of three narratives by Forster, George, and Cook. ... or something like that.
There are even more narratives by others, but Cook's sold best by far, as the Admiralty had paid for engravings. I tried to rearrange and expand things a bit and linked to the main articles about the books (two GAs one FA)
Confusing: he publication of A Voyage Round the World had not been successful financially, and by late 1777 Forster was so deeply ... Seems odd that if the son's book did not sell well that would impact finances of the father? How well did father's book sell?
Well, the father had financed the book. Observations was a scientific book financed by subscriptions, written for scientific fame not for money.
Word "surviving" in lead ... they had seven surviving children;... and also in body ...they had seven children who survived childbirth I suppose the sources use the word, no? Still, the word is distracting and doesn't add anything to the article. If some children died when 1 week old or 1 day old would you highlight that fact in the article? Suggest dropping the word unless the sources have something special to say about the non-surviving pregnancies. Not a show-stopper for FA, just my opinion. Maybe just drop it in the lead.
Dropped in the lead. One child died at birth. I haven't talked about the other children but could do so.
I'm not suggesting other adding more info about other children. But (see below) if any children have an English WP article, maybe put them in the InfoBox.
Split paragraphs? Article has a few beefy paragraphs, including In 1765, Forster obtained leave from ... The paragraphs all look decent, and the size is not a show-stopper for FA, but if there is a convenient way to split the paragraphs, consider doing so. Might help readers navigate articles on small devices.
Split that one.
Debt to Banks: the debt is mentioned 2 or 3 times, e.g.: Only Forster's debt to Banks remained, but he... & After Forster's death, Banks forgave his widow the remaining debt of £250... The debt sounds like a big deal, but I cannot discover where the debt originated, or why. Maybe I'm blind. If not already in the article, should mention the origin of the debt.
Added one mention of £200 loaned in 1777.
Help reader avoid clicks: ... arguments were refuted by Dan Henry Nicolson and Francis Raymond Fosberg Why make user click on those names to determine their authority? Better to insert a word like "historians" or "biographers" or "academics" etc before the names.
Done.
Add a few words: As he had fallen out with many powerful men in England... I know that the "Legacy" section says that Forster was an obnoxious man, but maybe you could add a few words earlier (at the "... fallen out..." sentence ) explaining why he fell out. E..g As his abrasive personality had caused him to fall out with many powerful men in England ...
- to do

Add a few words: Modern assessment of Forster has resulted in a reassessment of his contributions, .... Well? We want to know: How did the assessment change? Better? worse? Don't leave us hanging!
to do

InfoBox should name the son Georg, yes? |children = [[Georg Forster]]

Conclusion: Great prose; ample citations; decent illustrations; complete coverage. I'll be happy to support once the above items are resolved/addressed (note that some are optional suggestions). Contingent, of course, on passing the image check and source check. Noleander (talk) 15:30, 10 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for the review! I have done some easy bits and will try to get to everything else soon. I am glad you like the article, but no biography of Forster is likely to be complete. As Hoare says in his introduction, "Forster's character was complex enough and his interests catholic enough for any first biography to leave some depths unfathomed." —Kusma (talk) 20:44, 10 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I added a couple of minor things above. Noleander (talk) 21:59, 10 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]