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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Ucucha 01:41, 11 January 2012 [1].

Garret Hobart

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Garret Hobart (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

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Nominator(s): Wehwalt (talk) 13:10, 24 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I am nominating this for featured article because... I believe it meets the criteria. Well, if you think US Vice Presidents sometimes come out of left field, meet Garret Hobart, a political amateur who nevertheless did a good job as VP until his untimely death. New Jersey’s only vice president by representation, and today almost totally forgotten, except for the fact that his death cleared the way for the rise of Theodore Roosevelt. I went to take a picture of Hobart’s statue in Paterson and found a Christmas tree in his face. My second vice president, and the second article in the McKinley series. Wehwalt (talk) 13:10, 24 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Sources and images but no spotchecks. Nikkimaria (talk) 22:08, 24 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

  • Captions that aren't complete sentences shouldn't end in periods
  • File:McKinley_and_Hobart.png: page numbers?
  • File:Hobart_statue_1910.jpg: does the licensing tag apply to both the statue and the photo?
  • Missing bibliographic info for Hatch, Horner
  • Be consistent in whether Ohio is abbreviated. Nikkimaria (talk) 22:08, 24 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks, will get back at these after the holiday.--Wehwalt (talk) 22:23, 24 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Those things are done. Hatch I sourced to another reference, so don't expect it in the biblio. Thank you as always for your nitpicks:) .--Wehwalt (talk) 18:42, 26 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Support Leaning to support: I apologise for not delivering the promised peer review. The article is generally in good order; I have identified a number of mainly minor points that need attention, after which I see no problem in switching to full support.

Early life
  • "many Hobarts served as ministers". It may help some readers if you clarify this as ministers of religion
  • "the first major-party vice-presidential candidate from New Jersey" → "the first major-party vice-presidential candidate to come from New Jersey"
Umm, that doesn't work. Aaron Burr was born in Newark, though he ran as a New Yorker. I'll play with it.
Lawyer and part-time politician
  • I was curious to learn whether Hobart had any military service in the Civil War, so I checked the sources. He apparently didn't; it may be worth adding a line to this effect, to satisfy anyone else who wonders about this.
That one I saw coming. :) It's not clear why Hobart didn't serve, New Jersey was a strong Union state. Connolly mentions it; Magie does not. Jennie Hobart tells an anecdote that after Hobart's election, two Virginia women sent her a letter expressing an intent to come to New Jersey to research Hobart's military service. Jennie Hobart told them not to bother, as Mr. Hobart had never fought with anyone but her. She does not comment further. I can certainly tell the reader that Hobart didn't serve, but I can't explain it.
  • In the legal profession, what is the significance of the office or status of "counsellor-at-law" and "master in chancery"?
New Jersey had archaic legal procedures until the late 1940s, including separate courts for law and chancery. I'm content to throw the terms at the reader and let him decide if he wants to research further. I would have to research pre-1949 New Jersey legal procedure for the answers, and I think I'll leave it for the reader.
  • "he served as President of the Senate" - clarify this is the state Senate
  • Re his nomination for the US Senate, would it be advisable to explain that US Senators were at that time nomiated by state legislatures, rather than directly elected (a fact I gleaned from someone's excellent article on Mark Hanna)?
  • It is odd to find a paragraph beginning "Despite his success..." just after you have recorded Hobart's only electoral defeat!
  • "his success made him wealthier". As there is no earlier reference to his wealth, perhaps just "wealthy"?
  • "...for which he served as receiver, he served as president..." The repetition of "served" jars somewhat
  • "One reason for Hobart's success both the private and public sectors was his genial personality". Word missing (after "success")
Election of 1896
  • Spelling "abundently"
  • "Garret Hobart was an early supporter of McKinley, who helped to assure New Jersey's support for him at the Republican convention." Pronoun confusion ("who" and "him")
  • What is meant by the "mid-Antlantic region"? Sounds distinctly damp to me.
  • "McKinley drove Hobart to his home..." Clarify whose home
  • We need consistency in the capitalisation or otherwise of "vice president". Earlier it has been shown in lower case, but now we have "Vice President-elect" and a section heading "Vice President (1897–1899)"
Vice President
  • The captalisation issue arises again in the first paragraph of the "Presidential advisor" subsection: "breakfast and talk with the Vice President" - and elsewhere in the section
Ah, it should be standard lower case when referring to the office; capitalized when a title or referring to the incumbent. I'll look it over. Yes, there is an argument that the section title should be "Vice president (1897-1899)" but that would look odd.
  • "Ida McKinley" and "Mrs McKinley" in successive sentences; I'd change the latter to "the president's wife" or some such
  • The third paragraph of the "Illness and death" section, though in the correct place chronologically, is intrusive in a section that otherwise is concerned with illness and death. I wonder if it would be better repositioned?
Legacy
  • "little remembered" in this context does not require a hyphen.

Brianboulton (talk) 17:33, 26 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for your comments. Sorry about the spelling error, I usually am more careful. I will work on these over the next couple of days. And thank you for the praise on Hanna, but really, I just let the story tell itself.--Wehwalt (talk) 18:04, 26 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Those things are either done or commented on.--Wehwalt (talk) 18:33, 26 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
OK. You'll see I have switched to unqualified support, though I'm still not happy with the possible ambiguities in "Garret Hobart was an early supporter of McKinley, who helped to assure New Jersey's support for him at the Republican convention." What about: "Hobart, an early supporter of McKinley, helped ensure New Jersey's support for him at the Republican convention."? Also, I'd like to see Hobart's non-military service mentioned, even though no reason is apparent, but I'll leave this to your judgement. The article is impressive, up to the usual high standard of your political histories, and well worth FA status. Brianboulton (talk) 22:32, 27 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I'm sorry about that, Brian, I overlooked your comment. I've taken your suggestion and inserted your proposed text. Thank you for your thorough review. --Wehwalt (talk) 23:48, 27 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Many thanks for your reviews then and now. I enjoyed writing it. Having grown up in New Jersey, it's fun to do an article about there.--Wehwalt (talk) 08:42, 27 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I've been trying to insert the phrase "down the shore" into my articles for years. Again I have failed. Thank you for the review, and I heartily agree about TR.--Wehwalt (talk) 15:20, 27 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for the praise and the support.--Wehwalt (talk) 22:26, 4 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]


The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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