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The following discussion is an archived debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. The result of the discussion was Withdrawn by operator.

CSDify

[edit]

Operator: AHRtbA==

Automatic or Manually assisted: Automatic, sometimes supervised

Programming language(s): C#, DotNetWikiBot

Function overview: If a article get's tagged for Speedy Deletion and the Creator of the Page is not notified after 20 minutes, CSDify will notify the Creator on their talk page.

Edit period(s): Semi-Continuous. When I decide to run it.

Estimated number of pages affected: About 15 per hour. Depending on how many pages are nominated for Speedy. (when the user isn't tagged)

Exclusion compliant (Y/N): No

Function details: The Bot patrols Candidates for speedy deletion for Pages not already in the Bot's ToDo list (excluding User, User Talk and Talk pages). If a new Page is found, then it checks for one of the CSDify compliant DB templates on the page. (all DB templates excluding G5-G8 and G12. Also A2-A5, A9, F1-F11, C1-C2, T2-T3 and P2, because they have no talk page template)

If one of those is found, the Bot periodically checks the Page Creator's talk page to see if they have a notice about the SD. (The bot checks to see if the title of the SD article is anywhere on the talk page. It also looks for "user-block" and "uw-create")

After 20 minutes, if they don't have a message following the above criteria, the Bot will place a corresponding message template about the SD page on the Creator's talk page.

Discussion

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Firstly, do you have a different warning for different CSD? The bot should use a different warning from the standard one (e.g. Something like "Another user has added a..."). Secondly, I think it should only warn the user if their talk page is a redlink/they are a newbie. And it shouldn't warn blocked users. Thirdly, is there a reason the bot doesn't have "bot" in it's name? Also, a note: This task used to be done by User:CSDWarnBot, but it was shut down because it didn't wait long enough before warning users. - Kingpin13 (talk) 07:39, 11 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I'm using the template that is suggested for the specific DB template (eg. {{subst:etc...}}~~~~)
I was going to add "Bot" to the name, but I read:

Your username must not:

  • contain words like "bot" or "script" that refer to automated editing processes

Concerning the blocked users, as I stated above, "It also looks for user-block and uw-create [templates on the talk page]"
I believe CSDify should notify all users.
No matter how experienced I am, I would appreciate it if a article I created was nominated for SD, that I was notified about it.
I also am aware about the Bot that used to do this task. CSDify will wait until 20 minutes are passed until it notifies the user.

Thanks. AHRtbA== Talk 13:15, 11 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
the thing for not including words like bot in the username is for non-bots :). I don't think this should use the standard templates, you can find out what he message that User:CSDWarnBot left by looking through its contributions, personally I think these are much better for this task. - Kingpin13 (talk) 16:08, 11 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Ok. I see. I'll add "Bot" to the end of the name after this process (get it renamed). I'll also start making my own templates for the notifying. (it would be weird for a bot to say "Feel free to leave a note on my talk page if you have any questions about this.", since I didn't nominate it). BTW you can see the results on this log of what it would do. Thanks. AHRtbA== Talk 18:47, 11 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Also, if you look at the history of the log, you can see a sample edit summary it would leave. Thanks. AHRtbA== Talk 18:53, 11 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I don't have an opinion on the usefulness of this bot, it does seem appropriate to notify all users if an article they created is up for speedy deletion, but I don't know the ins and outs of CSD. I do appreciate that you are trying to make accurate edit summaries for the actions your bot takes. Good job on this point, in my opinion. --69.226.103.13 (talk) 09:25, 12 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Is 20 minutes too long? CSD's can be deleted in <20 minutes, sometimes. Besides, the user who tags it is meant to leave a comment with the author. It says so in the template. — DeontalkI'm BACK! 04:24, 16 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, the time that this bot leaves a message would be when the user forgets to leave a message. So that the creator gets a message even if the csd-tagger didn't leave one. I think the consensus was 15 minutes for the old User:CSDWarnBot (it didn't keep to this) - Kingpin13 (talk) 10:29, 16 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
If you take a look at the log now, you can see the two different notifications it would leave on the user's talk page. One being if the page exists and another if the page doesn't exist. I don't think the template is done, so if you see any edits, just let me know. Thanks. AHRtbA== Talk 20:19, 18 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not sure if this task can be done by a bot. There are some exceptions where only a human can really decide if the template is necessary. For example, what if a new user creates 20 pages about the athletes at his elementary school that are tagged for speedy deletion? Will the user get 20 notifications? Seems like overkill. Also, sometimes article creators are told informally (without the template) that the article has been tagged for CSD. How will the bot get around this? Shubinator (talk) 19:04, 19 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

If there is more than one page, the bot should notify the user of all the pages in one message (e.g. The following pages have been nominated for deletion; link1, link2 etc.). As to telling if the user has been informally warned, I think the bt just needs to check if the user's talkpage contains the nominator's username, and the page's title. - Kingpin13 (talk) 15:01, 20 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
That's not a bad idea Kingpin. It checks to see if the user is warned by checking the whole talk page for the CSD's page title. Thanks. AHRtbA== Talk 15:29, 20 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
For most cases checking for page title is fine, but Kingpin's idea seals the extra exceptions. In my example above, an informal message most likely wouldn't contain the title of each one of the articles. I would suggest checking the history of the creator's talk page if the nominator has left a note after the first article in the bunch was tagged. Also, what happens if an article created by a bot is nominated for speedy deletion (the Anybot mess comes to mind, though that was AfD)? Shubinator (talk) 00:48, 21 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Hmmm.. I'm not sure if I get what you are talking about re: checking the history. Do you mind elaborating on that a little bit? @CSD for bot created page: I guess I could check to see if the Creator has "Bot" in it's name and exclude it. Are bots creating pages that get speeded? Normally bots don't create (encyclopedia) articles at all. Thanks. AHRtbA== Talk 00:42, 22 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I'm suggesting checking the history because just by looking at the talk page text you can't tell if the message from the CSD nominator was before the article tagging or after it (this is for the example given above, where the nominator has left an informal message without the article title). Oh, will the bot only work in article namespace? It's less of a problem, but it would still be nice to have a fix. Non-admin bot ops can't delete the pages the bot created, so the pages are often tagged for speedy deletion. I think the easiest patch would be to check if the edit is flagged as a bot edit. Shubinator (talk) 00:53, 22 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

@bot flag: Ok, I'll look into it. @namespace: It checks all besides User: and Talk: name spaces. @history checking: I think I get what you're saying... The bot just checks the whole page for the title of the article. If that's found, it bails out. It's not checking to see if the user has created the same page twice. Thanks. AHRtbA== Talk 15:18, 22 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

About the history checking, if you haven't already written a piece of code, here's a function I quickly drew up (this function will basically check if the page name has been added to the user's talk page since a certain datetime):
private bool HasUserBeenNotified(Site enw, Page usrTalk, string speediedPage, DateTime timeNommedAt, int RevsToLookAt)
{
     usrTalk.Load();
     PageList userTalkHistory = new PageList(enw);
     userTalkHistory.FillFromPageHistory(usrTalk.title, RevsToLookAt);
     userTalkHistory.Load();
     int i = 0;
     for (; i < RevsToLookAt - 1; i++ )
         if (userTalkHistory[i].timestamp.Ticks < timeNommedAt.Ticks) { break; }
     return (((usrTalk.text.Length - usrTalk.text.Replace(speediedPage, "").Length) / speediedPage.Length)
          > ((userTalkHistory[i].text.Length - userTalkHistory[i].text.Replace(speediedPage, "").Length) / speediedPage.Length) ? true : false);
}
The arguments are (the site which you are using, the warned user's talk page (i.e. the page to check for mentions of the speedied page's title), the title of the speedied page (i.e. the search term), the time at which the page was speedied (you can get this using Page.timestamp), how far back you want to look (if you don't look far enough, then you may not find the date). Feel free to use or not use as you please. Cheers - Kingpin13 (talk) 16:21, 22 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks Kingpin for providing some code. From what I understand though, both this code and the bot as it's currently written searches for the text of the article title on the creator's talk page. My main point above (sorry if I was unclear) is that if the nominator leaves an informal message without the article title, the bot will notify the creator, resulting in duplicate notification. This could happen in many ways; the article title might be very long, the nominator might make a typo in the article title's name, the nominator might be giving a blanket notice (informal, without uw-create) for multiple articles, etc etc. Shubinator (talk) 01:08, 24 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
You can always change the search term (in my example, "speediedPage") to be the username of the user who nominated the page, and then it will pick up the signature, or you could user Page.lastUser (or whatever it's called) to check if the nominator has edited the user's talk page since nominating the page for deletion. - Kingpin13 (talk) 09:32, 24 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks Kingpin for the code. I think I will use it for what you mentioned and also if I wanted to add a part where it also notified the User who tagged the Page for Speedy that they didn't notify the Creator of the article... Sort of like fixing the problem instead of patching it. Does that have to be a separate request...? Thanks. AHRtbA== Talk 14:08, 24 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

(outdent) I'm not sure about notifying the tagger, as there could be a good reason why they didn't manage to warn the user (e.g. The page was deleted before they could see the history, a Twinkler got in the way (that happens a lot, and your bot should check for it by checking for both the speedied page's title, and the nominator's signature), Internet connection/WP went pop etc.)
So how is the coding going? Any ideas when it might be done? Or is it ready? - Kingpin13 (talk) 11:26, 25 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, been busy, I'll try to finalize most of the code by the end of this week. Thanks. AHRtbA== Talk 01:39, 30 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Hmmm... I really want to wait to port it over to PHP and the Toolserver before finishing this bot. (otherwise, this bot might not run that often, which would make CSDify a wasted bot) So what do I need to do? Withdraw this with the template, then when I want to go through this again, reference to this BRfA? Thanks for all your help through this. AHRtbA== Talk 19:07, 30 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Well if you expect the PHP/TS process to take under two weeks, we can just leave this in a Hold state. If it is expected to be longer than that, we can withdraw it with a note that it will be re-submitted at a later date. Your choice. MBisanz talk 14:55, 31 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Hmm... Well, I think it would be best with the Withdraw note that I'll resubmit it later. TS access can take up to 2 months to get approved. Thanks for all the help through this BRfA process. I'll be making more bots in the future. So what do I need to place on this page? Thanks. AHRtbA== Talk 15:58, 31 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.
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