User talk:V1adis1av

Proposed merge of isotope tables

As someone who has maintained Isotope table (complete) and/or Isotope table (divided) in the past, your input is needed. User:Greg L is proposing (and prematurely executing) a merge of the two tables, each about 50k, into one table of over 100k. I am opposing it, and no other editors have commented yet. Please come to Talk:Isotope table (complete) and offer your opinion. Thanks, JWB (talk) 00:27, 20 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Merger

V1adis1av: What do you think about option #3, which would keep the best of both worlds and would leave only one article? In case other options get added and the numbering gets changed, here is a historical version to show which option I’m talking about. Greg L (my talk) 20:52, 20 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

atomic weights

Hey thanks for the help here, but next time make sure you add the {{cite journal}} template too. Nergaal (talk) Today, 11:32 am (UTC-4)

Mononuclidic elements

Hello. I note that you have extensively corrected the information on numbers of isotopes of each element in the article Isotope, and that you have left unchanged the statement that "27 mononuclidic elements have only a single stable isotope". Could you also look at the article Mononuclidic element which seems to say that there are 19 (plus 3 with one very long-lived isotope). Which of the two articles is correct please?

If somehow the difference in wording means that both are correct, then I think the difference needs further explanation. Dirac66 (talk) 18:34, 14 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for this note, I changed these words in the article Isotope. Of course, the elements with one stable and one long-lived radioactive nuclides cannot be considered mononuclidic. --V1adis1av (talk) 19:51, 14 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

WP:PHYS

Hi, I notice that you had some interest in physics. Might I interest you in joining WikiProject Physics?Headbomb {^ταλκ_{κοντριβς} – WP Physics} 07:30, 1 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your invitation, but I prefer not to join any formal communities. Is there a good reason for joining, if I can contribute to the physics articles without it? --V1adis1av (talk) 20:10, 1 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Well the biggest reason to join IMO, is because the project acts as a central place to discuss things and provide lists of physics-related things. There are various behind-the-scenes things going on (like recruiting efforts, article assessment, etc...) but most people don't care about that, and simply edit articles as usual. But they still come to the physics project when they have questions, want opinions, notice problems with an article, wants to know if anyone can find a reference for something, and things like that. There's also the Article alerts for the project, which tells you about things Article for deletion, Peer reviews, etc. Mind you you can benefit from all this without "formally joining", but by placing your name on the member list, you let others people know how you can help them as well. For example if you know a lot about lasers, and list lasers as one of your interest/areas of expertise, then some users might ask you questions about them just to make sure they didn't write something false or misleading. Headbomb {^ταλκ_{κοντριβς} – WP Physics} 21:54, 1 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

List of neutrino experiments

I noticed that you left a message with regarding the expansion of that list with other neutrino experiments. I've merged the two lists together, so it should now be easier to expand it, add missing information, correct mistakes (if there are any), etc... Headbomb {^ταλκ_{κοντριβς} – WP Physics} 03:18, 21 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Definition of mononuclidic element

The Commission on Atomic Weights and Isotopic Abundances (CAWIA) of IUPAC defines an element as monoisotopic "if it has one and only one isotope that is either stable or has a half-life greater than 1×10¹⁰ a" (see [1], p. 708, where also the list is presented: "The following 21 elements are considered to be monoisotopic in the evaluation of the atomic weights: Be, F, Na, Al, P, Sc, Mn, Co, As, Y, Nb, Rh, I, Cs, Pr, Tb, Ho, Tm, Au, Bi, and Th."). Thus, vanadium, rubidium, indium, lanthanum, europium, lutetium and rhenium should be removed from the list, and bismuth should be add. The radioactivity of several nuclides of these elements has nothing to deal with their natural occurrence. --V1adis1av (talk) 13:32, 31 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

This commission does not distinguish between monoisotopic elements and mononuclidic elements, and says they are often used as synonyms. [2]. Well, they may be, but sometimes they are not. The list you give, and this commission gives, is basically what we give as the 22 mononuclidic elements, which are those used in metrology (they list one less than we do, so that needs to be harmonized-- we're going to have to remove Pa-231 or else mark it as not recognized by IUPAC as of 2003, but noted by NIST in 2005). The problem with IUPAC's sloppy usage is that it leaves no word for the elements that have only one STABLE isotope (what we've called, and may others call monoisotopics-- they have ONE and only one stable isotope-- like beryllium but surely not like thorium-- or bismuth).

So I'll do two things: 1) remove one nuclide from the mononuclidic list (Pa-231 unless NIST defends it strongly), 2) add the IUPAC reference you found above and note that IUPAC sometimes uses "monoisotopic" when they mean the more-specific word "mononuclidic" and that "monoisotopic" thus has TWO non-compatable definitions in use, out in the community. Thanks for bringing this up. I think IUPAC should have addressed the point! S B H arris 18:32, 31 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

OK, I am sure you will do the best. I will turn back to this discussion in a week or so -- unfortunately, I have no time now. Only I would like to emphasize that if we have two different points of view from so respectful institutions like NIST and IUPAC, both should be present in the article. Also take into account that a stable (observationally) isotope can once be found unstable after more sensitive measurements, and the element can became monoisotopic, in your variant of definition (like it had happen with Eu recently). --V1adis1av (talk) 11:06, 1 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Protactinium as a mononuclidic

Why protactinium is here? Two nuclides of Pa exist naturally, Pa-231 (family of U-235) and Pa-234/Pa-234m (family of U-238). --V1adis1av (talk) 13:04, 31 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Because Pa-234 has a half-live of 6 hours-- too short to be found naturally even as a decay product, or used in measurements of atomic weights, from nature nuclide sources. Enough Pa-231 exists in uranium beds (half life 32,000 years, about the same as plutonium-239) to be separable and useful as a mononuclidic standard, at least according to NIST, 2005. The half life limit is somewhat arbitrary, but 6 hours is certainly too small to find any weighable isotope in nature. S B H arris 18:45, 31 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, in a mineral with U/Th=1, a ratio of Pa-231/234 is 6.4e6 in equilibrium (taking into account half-lives of mothers and daughters and the isotopic abundance of U-235), and no influence on the atomic weight of Pa can be found from Pa-234. However, if U/Th is <<1 (it can be ~1% in some minerals), Pa231/234 is less also. --V1adis1av (talk) 11:22, 1 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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Promethium (talk)

Прочитал твою (на русской ВП сам просишь, если что, всегда можно на "Вы") критику к моим замечаниям в статье о натуральном прометии. Вообще-то, я несогласен, хотя у меня есть смутное ощущение, что кандидат может понимать немножко лучше меня в своем профиле :) Надеюсь, дальнейшая дискуссия пойдет дружелюбно, я никого учить не собираюсь, а лишь надеюсь во всем разобраться при помощи профессионала. ОК?

Итак. Т_α/Т_β≈3,6×10⁸. Верно? Логаримф по основанию два от этого числа равен примерно 28,4. Другими словами, за то время, что альфа-распадется 1 атом (после 1 периода полураспада, как округление модели), бета-распадется 2^28,4 (≈350 000 000) атомов. То есть, если у нас найдется примерно 350 млн атомов прометия-145, один из них распадется альфа-распадом. На 1 моль (6×10²³ атомов) найдется 10¹⁵ таких атомов. А лютеция, между прочим, 2 кг в год делают, а сколько его спрятано еще... :) То есть предпосылки, по моему мнению, вполне есть. Хотя это и против здравого смысла (меня тоже смутило). Может, я в чем-то ошибся? С удовольствием выслушаю критику :)

Могу (позже) попробовать придраться к тому, что написал ты, только не сейчас, но вообще готов попробовать. (По-моему, такая странность кроется в том, что это математический закон, экстраполированный на реальную жизнь с ограничением на исключительно целые числа атомов...имей мы возможность дискутировать о наличии 0,01 атома, таких странностей бы не было)

Да, и вот еще. Хотя 1966 год и правда уже дряхловат, логика же не поддается времени, только точность измерений (ясен пень, улучшается, чем дальше живем). Плюс я не нашел того, что ты утвержадешь в книге (ни единого слова "бета"). Можно мне номер страницы или (а лучше - и) цитату? Даже если я и не прав, этот факт тожде можно было бы включить :)

Надеюсь, мы сможем мирно продолжить дискуссию здесь и по-русски. Just in case, if you got anything against, we may switch back English and go back to the original talkpage. OK?--R8R Gtrs (talk) 16:21, 17 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Видишь ли, тут дело в том, что если ядро может распадаться по нескольким каналам с парциальными временами жизни τ₁, τ₂,..., τ_n, то общее время жизни τ удовлетворяет равенству 1/τ = 1/τ₁+1/τ₂+...+1/τ_n. Следовательно, общее время жизни всегда меньше, чем любое из парциальных времён жизни. (Можно точно такую формулу написать и для периодов полураспада, они отличаются от времён жизни только множителем ln2 = 0.69..., просто удобнее обсуждать именно с временем жизни). Формула почти очевидна, т.к. постоянная распада (т.е. количество распадов в единицу времени в пересчёте на одно ядро) λ=1/τ, и, следовательно, общая λ=Σλ_i, где λ_i -- парциальные постоянные распада; например, если по разным каналам имеем в среднем 4, 3 и 0.1 распада в год на ядро, то общее λ=7.1 распадов в год на ядро. Итак, допустим, у нас есть 1000 одинаковых атомов, каждый из которых с вероятностью 0.999 распадается по бета-каналу, и с вероятностью 0.001 испытывает альфа-распад. Это означает, что λ₁=0.999λ, и λ₂=0.001λ. Пусть для определённости общее время жизни 1 год (следовательно, парциальное время жизни для альфа-распада будет около 1000 лет), и в данной выборке случилось так, что через какое-то время 999 атомов испытали бета-распад, и остался один атом. Вот теперь посмотрим на этот атом и решим, как он распадётся и сколько проживёт. Думаешь, он обязан испытать альфа-распад и прожить 1000 лет? Нет, у него остались всё те же 999 шансов из 1000, что он распадётся по бета-каналу, причём проживёт он примерно 1 год (в среднем, конечно) от данного момента. Можно для ясности обратиться от атомов к людям; пусть в какой-то популяции люди живут в среднем 70 лет, причём из каждой тысячи человек в среднем 999 помирает от инфаркта, а один -- от случайного попадания кирпича в голову. Это можно чисто математически представить таким образом, что среднее время жизни для гибели от инфаркта равно 70/0.999, а для гибели от кирпича -- 70/0.001, т.е. 70 тысяч лет. Тем не менее очевидно, что если мы возьмём выборку из 1000 человек и подождём 70 тысяч лет (или даже всего тысячу лет), то ни одного из них мы, конечно, в живых не застанем. Атомы заменять людьми -- это, конечно, сильное упрощение, т.к. распределение сроков жизни у людей неэкспоненциально, но общий смысл, думаю, понятен -- если бы у нас был шанс отыскать в наше время созданные на заре времён атомы прометия, которым была уготована судьба испытать альфа-распад, то у нас был бы и шанс встретить на улице дожившего до наших дней престарелого неандертальца, которому суждено умереть от какой-то очень редкой болезни.

Насчёт книги давай попозже, она у меня на работе. --V1adis1av (talk) 19:10, 17 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Переварил не сразу, но, думаю, понял. Для ясности: то есть вероятность альфа-распада в 0,001 не приведет к тому, что каждый тысячный атом претерпит именно альфа-распад (в идеале)?

Без проблем, пережду, сколько надо. Только дай знать (хотя бы и тут), как найдешь ее :)--R8R Gtrs (talk) 12:12, 21 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Не совсем так. Если у нас вначале тысяча атомов, то из них через какое-то достаточно длинное время 999 испытают бета-распад, один -- альфа (в среднем, конечно). Сейчас я в командировке, книгу в понедельник посмотреть, к сожалению, не успел, когда вернусь и погляжу, отзовусь (пишу из аэропорта). --V1adis1av (talk) 16:04, 21 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Отняло время, но я понял. Даже нашел ошибку в изначальных суждениях. Тут точно точка, осталось только разобраться с книгой :) Огромное спасибо. Удачи в командировке :) --R8R Gtrs (talk) 20:15, 2 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Userfied temporary list

I moved the Russian list to User:V1adis1av/List of Taras Shevchenko National University of Kyiv people/Russian list; we typically stash this sort of thing in user space so they don't show up on search engines and the like. Regards! VQuakr (talk) 07:41, 12 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

OK, thanks! --V1adis1av (talk) 08:31, 12 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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