User talk:TxBangert

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QWERTY

Your edit to QWERTY#United Kingdom was certainly valid as far as it went but I'm afraid the end result is an only slightly less confusing mess. Could you have a look at it again please? Specifically,

the material about anglophone countries using the US keyboard should be under US keyboard (with maybe a one line redirect in the UK keyboard section.
the section talks about the AltGr key, but the US layout doesn't have an AltGr key. Does that sentence mark a return to discussing the UK layout again? or what?

I'm lost! --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 14:38, 9 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Ok ... will have a look.

I had a look and I agree that the sentence about Windows 8 support for 'AltGr' is a mess. I'm fairly sure its wrong, but I didn't delete it because I don't live in Australia or New Zealand and have no experience installing Windows there. Its definitely not true in Canada, which uses just the standard US keyboard layout (except Quebec).

Khodorkosky Feb 2022 edits

Hello, I'm RenatUK. Wikipedia is written by people who have a wide diversity of opinions, but we try hard to make sure articles have a neutral point of view. Your recent edit to Mikhail Khodorkovsky seemed less than neutral and has been removed. If you think this was a mistake, or if you have any questions, you can leave me a message on my talk page. Thank you. Renat 14:25, 19 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Hi RenatUK. Wikipedia is written by people who have a wide diversity of opinions, but we try hard to make sure articles have a neutral point of view and is fact based rather than opinion based. I'm sorry you feel that my recent edit to Mikhail Khodorkovsky seemed to you less than neutral but I can assure you that it is now more neutral than it was before. If you think that I am mistaken, please let me know your feeling on my talk page, or the talk page of the Khodorkovsky talk page. Please do not undo my edits before you have discussed the issue with me. The fact is that Khodorkovsky is a convicted criminal, on multiple counts of fraud and tax evasion. If you have any citations that show that he has been 'rehabilitated' then by all means make that known to me, or change the article in that respect. To my knowledge there has never been any formal legal proceedings to set aside his convictions. He is therefore a 'convicted criminal' and the Wikipedia article needs to reflect that fact in the intro -- just like articles about other well known criminals and fraudsters do. It is not helpful for you to try to impose your own personal views that he is somehow a 'philanthropist' ... an innocent victim, a political prisoner or a dissident and so forth. Thank you. --TxB (talk) 15:16, 19 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I see you deleted my comment on your own talk page -- after specifically asking me to discuss the issue. I will restored it once just to check if the intent was genuine or the intent was simply to vandalize. I'm happy to put the comment on my own talk page. I'm not happy though for you to remove my edits from the article on Khodorkovsky though, not without good reason. --TxB (talk) 16:08, 19 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, I'm RenatUK. I noticed that you recently removed content from Mikhail Khodorkovsky without adequately explaining why. In the future, it would be helpful to others if you described your changes to Wikipedia with an accurate edit summary. If this was a mistake, don't worry; the removed content has been restored. If you would like to experiment, please use your sandbox. If you think I made a mistake, or if you have any questions, you can leave me a message on my talk page. Thanks. Renat 15:39, 19 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Please do not remove content or templates from pages on Wikipedia, as you did to Mikhail Khodorkovsky, without giving a valid reason for the removal in the edit summary. Your content removal does not appear to be constructive and has been reverted. If you only meant to make a test edit, please use your sandbox for that. Thank you. Renat 15:49, 19 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Renat I would like for you to revert to my edit in the Khodorkovsky article. My guess is you want to say he is a 'philanthropist'. The problem is the citation is not valid. I'm happy to wait and see if you can find a genuine citation. The fact is that he is a convicted criminal, and not a genuine philanthropist. The introductory paragraph should reflect that. If you want to edit the paragraph to better reflect the facts, then by all means do so. There is a lot of discussion in the talk page that I would suggest you take guidance from. I'm simply trying to address some of the concerns made there, once of which is that this person is a convicted criminal rather than a 'philanthropist'. I am by no means an expert on the Russian legal system and business environment, so I'm happy to let the matter settle for a few days. But I will certainly remove things which are provably wrong or just spurious. --TxB (talk) 16:08, 19 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Txbangert Why are you fragmenting the discussion? Why can not you discuss everything in one place, one section? "The problem is the citation is not valid." why do you think so? Currently there are Financial Times, Deutsche Welle and European Parliament sources. What is wrong with them? What sources do you want to see? And what kind of "discussion in the talk page" you are talking about? Renat 16:15, 19 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Renat You asked me to discuss the matter on your talk page. I'm happy to discuss it here if thats what you want. "The problem is the citation is not valid." why do you think so? Why do I think the citation is not valid? It should be obvious! Its a press release! Probably written by Mr Khodokovsky himself! Or those who work for him. I see you put 2 additional references. The Financial Times, Deutsche Welle citations. What is wrong with them? These are interviews with the man himself. In all three cases the 'philanthropist' reference is a self-description. What sources do you want to see? I want to see a solid reference that everyone can agree on. You should be extra careful as this individual is a convicted criminal, who was in prison for 9 years on charges of fraud. The modus operandi of fraudsters is deception. I would be equally hesitant to allow a description of Donald Trump as a philanthropist. I'm happy to discuss the matter anywhere, but I'm not exactly an expert on how Wikipedia works. --TxB (talk) 16:39, 19 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Txbangert no, I did not say to discuss this on my talk page. And I told you before that my talk page is not for this. And both the Financial Times and Deutsche Welle call him a philanthropist. It is not a self-description. https://www.ft.com/content/a9adb49e-3c39-11e3-b85f-00144feab7de - Financial Times says: "He [Khodorkovsky] was the first, too, to reinvent himself, like the US robber barons a century earlier, as a philanthropist, launching the non-profit Open Russia Foundation to run educational projects." That is not a self-description. https://www.dw.com/en/khodorkovsky-putin-lacks-legitimacy/a-18873038 Deutsche Welle says: "Mr. Khodorkovsky, you used to be a businessman, and now you're a philanthropist." This is also not a self-description. Renat 16:52, 19 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Renat You said it right above on my talk page! You literally say 'leave a message on my talk page' and helpfully put a link to it. Just scroll up and read it for yourself! As for the references, the FT is a reliable source but you are giving an interview article whose purpose is to present the views of the person being interviewed. Khodorkovsky would make it a pre-condition of the interview that he is described as a 'philanthropist' rather than a convicted criminal. The journalist is not saying that the interviewee is a philanthropist, merely that he describes himself as a philanthropist. An interview is only a reliable source on something the person himself says; it does not establish objective facts about that person. If a self-written press release and personal interviews are the best you can find then I think your claim is inherently very weak. If you want to put 'self-described philanthropist' or Russian Oligarch who is now trying to 'pose as a philanthropist' that would be fine with the citations you currently have. On the other hand, there is solid incontrovertible evidence that he is a convicted criminal and a fraudster. I would be happy with the intro saying Russian fraudster who now poses as a philanthropist. However, I do not see any evidence of any actual philanthropical activity. Bill Gates would be an example of a genuine philanthropist. There are plenty of solid citations for that and even awards you could cite. Has Khodorkovsky received any awards for philanthropy? If yes, you could cite those and I would be happy with that. --TxB (talk) 20:20, 19 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Renat I guess you have no actual intent to 'discuss' the issue. You are putting unsound references into the article and when I revert the text you complain about 'edit warring'. There was no 'war', I merely put the above comment on my own talk page. I won't waste someone's else's time reviewing such a minor matter, but I would urge you not to waste my time by insisting on putting in citations that are invalid. If you wish to support the 'philanthropist' claim please spend your time usefully by finding citations that everyone can agree are sound. If you are unable to do this then the 'philanthropist' claim will have to go. I would also urge you not to make use of the Wikipedia disciplinary processes inappropriately or abusively. I made it clear to you already that I'm happy to wait a day or two to discuss the issue. There is no 'war'. If you add an invalid reference though I intend to revert that change as soon as possible. Feel free of course to ask me if I consider a citation valid in advance. More generally, unless you have a persuasive argument to the contrary (which it seems you do not) I do intend to pursue bringing more balanced into to the article. It reflects badly on Wikipedia to have biased and misleading content. Putting this into a superhero context, it is equivalent to describing Lex Luthor as a 'philanthropist'. He may indeed be involved with some kind of philanthropic activity, but its unlikely to be legitimate as his main occupation is evil villain. In this case a convicted villain who served 9 years in a labour camp. That is not just my view, but the bulk of the comments on the talk page complain about exactly this kind of bias. I would urge you to read those comments.--TxB (talk) 23:59, 19 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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Notice of Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents discussion

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January 2024

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