User talk:Raven rs

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Hi Raven rs. Thank you for your work on Amenyseneb. Another editor, North8000, has reviewed it as part of new pages patrol and left the following comment:

Nice work

@North8000: thanks

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North8000 (talk) 18:20, 17 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi

Hello Raven rs! I see that you are doing some work on Bronze Age sites in the Near East. You are doing a great job! I am also working in archaeological sites spanning all periods from the Bronze Age to recent history. May I ask what are you field of interest? So we could maybe collaborate and help each other in the future. Please @ping me with your response. Bolter21 (talk to me) 17:41, 10 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Bolter21 thanks! you're doing a great job too! I'm mostly in the bronze age. I try to find the topics we know very little about... 50 % in Egypt and 50 % in the rest of the Mediterranean and Near East region... behind the scenes I focus a lot about chronologies between archaelogical phases. See my user page for some details. Sure, happy to collaborate! Raven rs (talk) 20:56, 10 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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One Question

From your edit here, Sobekhotep IV's highest attested year is his 9th Year. Was there a new discovery for this king that held his 9th regnal year? I had thought his highest attested date was his 8th year but that was based on Kim Ryholt's book on the SIP from 1997 which is now 27 years old. Of course, Ryholt thought that this king had a reign of 10 years minimum. Just curious, --Leoboudv (talk) 01:40, 27 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Leoboudv, thankh you for your message.

In Wadi Hammamat, there was a stela dated to Year 9. See Ryholt 1997:349

"18) Wadi Hammamat, Stela dated to year 9. Pr. loc. unknown. Bibl.: Debono, ASAE 51 (1951), 81-82, pl. 15; PM VII (1952), 332; Simpson, MDAIK 25 (1969), 154-158, pl. 7; Habachi, Fs Dunham (1981), 78 [6]; Malaise, SAK 9 (1981), 281."

Egyptologists have qualified guesses :) Raven rs (talk) 05:45, 27 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

PS: As an aside, I wrote this article on Dush, Egypt in January 2025 and managed to source some image from people from flickr for the Treasure of Dush.,,,and this other Article in 2024. But today with high post covid price inflation in Canada, I have less time for wikipedia. Best, --Leoboudv (talk) 01:40, 27 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Great contribution. Extensive work. Raven rs (talk) 05:52, 27 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your reply. I assume the stela...clearly bears Sobekhotep IV's cartouches I don't know why Ryholt did not stress this fact in his book--or maybe I did not read this part of his book more. But this is a minor detail. Sobekhotep IV's English wikipedia article reflects the controversy over whether Egypt was already divided in his reign as per the N. Moeller and G. Marouard seal evidence. I don't really accept this suggestion since Merneferre Ay later on is attested in both Lower and Upper Egypt...but AFTER him the 13th dynasty kings are really poorly attested. But the Dynasty 13 kings from Sobekhotep III--Neferhotep I---Sobekhotep IV were the most powerful kings of the 13th dynasty according to Ryholt and they ruled Before Merneferre Ay.

PS: I sourced the second and third images in Princess Neferuptah's article: http://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Neferuptah as you can see here and also these 2 quality images in Princess Mereret's article: http://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Mereret_(12th_Dynasty) and all 4 photos in king Amenemope's article: http://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Amenemope_(pharaoh) I used to ask people on flickr if they would agree to license an image freely on wikipedia and change the flickr license. Some people would agree and change the license, some people say No! and some people just ignore my flickr message. Such is life. Best, --Leoboudv (talk) 09:56, 27 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

These are the last 100 image uploads by me on Wikimedia Commons which includes a new Coffin of Kamose, Sekhemkhet's treasure trove of gold bracellets (Sekhemkhet was the successor of Djoser), and two rare photos from Senusret II's pyramid which is at risk of collapse--according to the person who agreed to license the images freely. One enters the pyramid of Senusret II at your life! Also, the real diadem or crown of Tutankhamun which strangely was never uploaded on Commons before....and something for Amenemhat IV. The images are good enough for me. Free images of some ancient treasures are sometimes hard to get on Wikimedia Commons Goodnight from Canada, --Leoboudv (talk) 10:08, 27 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Nice, yes get permission to images with copyright. Also try to find as much info about the item and put it under the "Attestations" which describes the items.

There are many problems with the Middle Kingdom Chronology, I do not know where to begin because its mostly wrong at the start and the end. Egyptologists have their independent view of historic events unsynchronized with the Levant. Scholars argue over radiocarbon dating and have strong opinions sometimes disregarding all other evidence. Some scholars write 100 papers to make money. There are as many opinons about this period as there are scholars.

The Second Intermediate Period was not a long period (150 years) with a long line of kings in succession as interperted fromt the Turin King List. It was a relatively short period of time where many kings ruler different estates and citites at the same time. There was a crisis in the order of succession. A matter of inheritnce from Amenemhat III. And major climate change that broght the MBA to an end. There was no "great king" until Ahmose I restored it. Raven rs (talk) 13:06, 27 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

You write: "Some scholars write 100 papers to make money....[and] Scholars argue over radiocarbon dating and have strong opinions sometimes disregarding all other evidence." One problem is Egyptological books are very expensive to buy since they are very specialised and there is only a small market for them sadly. It echoes to me the famous words "Publish or Perish" even if your theories don't agree with the evidence just to get a higher profile sadly and advance your career. Thanks for your information. You can use images on Wikimedia Commons for wikipedia anytime...but so can any site such as Facebook or a Newspaper or Magazine since the images are all licensed freely with no Non-Commercial restriction. Best, --Leoboudv (talk) 21:54, 27 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Comm: Luckily, Google has a partial online copy of Ryholt's SIP book over here where pages 348-349 are available but page 350 is skipped and confirms your statement of Year 9 of Sobekhotep IV...which I never doubted. It is strange Ryholt never mentions the Year 6 date of this king. I understand now why I did not photocopy this section of Ryholt's work as it is mostly a list of attestations for several kings but this evidence strongly implies Sobekhotep IV ruled for 10+ years like Neferhotep I. Best, --Leoboudv (talk) 13:19, 28 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, you get to see some pages. I have the book myself. I would put his reign at 9 years at the end of Late 13th Dynasty (Transitional MB IIA/B-MB IIB1) followed by a king who ruled 4 years before this family-line collapses due to abrupt climate change, economic collapse, political turmoil, rival kings and civil war. Then follows what Ryholts calls "Abydos-Dynasty" which includes petty local kings Senebkay and 7 more tombs at Abydos. 17th dyn in Thebes. 15th dynasty in Tell el-Daba (replacing 14th dyn).

Note that if you have made enought edits, you can use wikilibrary which gives you access to several academic sites with access to papers. Also several academic sites have limited free access. You can also see academia.edu etc. Raven rs (talk) 23:32, 28 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]