User talk:Nikova Kalish

February 2015

Please refrain from making unconstructive edits to Wikipedia, as you did at Albert Langer. Your edits appear to constitute vandalism and have been reverted or removed. If you would like to experiment, please use the sandbox. Administrators have the ability to block users from editing if they repeatedly engage in vandalism. Thank you. —George8211 / T 20:42, 25 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Please stop your disruptive editing. If you continue to vandalize Wikipedia, as you did at Albert Langer, you may be blocked from editing. —SMALL JIM 20:47, 25 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I can show you the death certificate and photos if you like. This is not disruptive editing.

The photo of Michelle and Norman's wedding, as well as the death certificate have both been uploaded to Victor Smorgon's wikipedia page for your entertainment.

Please note that I am actually Albert Langer's biological daughter. And I have the birth certificate to prove that. My brother recently met with Jack Smorgon and George Castan. They are the ones who gave him the photo.

That you are related to the subject is irrelevant—the information needs to be verifiable via a reliable, published source. The Australian Dictionary of Biography reference you include confirms that Norman Smorgon married Michelle Langer, but nothing more. Primary documents such as birth/death certificates may assist your claim but you have already stated that Langer's birth certificate is false, so that doesn't exactly inspire confidence in other documents related to him or yourself. Even if you can meet the verifiability guidelines for this, is it really important? It should certainly not be included in the article lede as if it is the reason for Victor Smorgon's or Albert Langer's notability—possibly in a Personal life or Family section, but once again needs to be independently verifiable by a non-related person. Finally, your initial edits to this article contain very hostile and non-neutral statements attacking the subject [1]—and that raises questions in my mind at least about neutral point of view and possible conflict of interest. --Canley (talk) 02:23, 26 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I can send you a copy of Albert's birth certificate, stating that he is the son of Michelle Langer. He is, at least, the brother-in-law, if not the biological brother. I consider the fact that Australia's leading industrialist is so closely related to Australia's leading left-wing political activist to be of historical interest.

All of the funding for the Neither! campaign came from his mother, Michelle Goddard's deceased estate, which primarily consisted of shares in Smorgon Steel. So I consider the matter to be highly relevant. Also, his name change to Arthur Dent is part of his confusion about not being allowed to call himself Smorgon within the Melbourne Jewish community.

I was there at the time and am willing to sign an Affadavit to the effect.

Where did Norman Smorgon die? In Israel, as stated here: http://adb.anu.edu.au/biography/smorgon-norman-11729

or in London, as stated here: http://www.australianbiography.gov.au/subjects/smorgon/intertext8.html

I've been to the tombstone. He died in Israel. I can send you a photo if you like.

Please stop removing references to the fact that Albert Langer is Victor Smorgon's brother. This is a provable historical fact.

Your recent editing history at Albert Langer shows that you are currently engaged in an edit war. To resolve the content dispute, please do not revert or change the edits of others when you get reverted. Instead of reverting, please use the article's talk page to work toward making a version that represents consensus among editors. The best practice at this stage is to discuss, not edit-war. See BRD for how this is done. If discussions reach an impasse, you can then post a request for help at a relevant noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases, you may wish to request temporary page protection.

Being involved in an edit war can result in your being blocked from editing—especially if you violate the three-revert rule, which states that an editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page within a 24-hour period. Undoing another editor's work—whether in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material each time—counts as a revert. Also keep in mind that while violating the three-revert rule often leads to a block, you can still be blocked for edit warring—even if you don't violate the three-revert rule—should your behavior indicate that you intend to continue reverting repeatedly. —C.Fred (talk) 03:12, 26 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Who appointed you Minister of Truth? This is a question of biology and fact, not one of political census. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nikova Kalish (talk • contribs)

There are two issues, both related to your edits violating Wikipedia policies. The first is WP:Verifiability: edits must be verified by reliable sources, and your changes cannot be verified by the sources you cite. Second, WP:Three revert rule is a bright-line rule prohibiting multiple reverts to an article. You are at (if not already across) three reverts on the Langer article. —C.Fred (talk) 03:18, 26 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

You may be blocked from editing without further warning the next time you add unsourced material to Wikipedia, as you did at Nikova Kalish. The source you are citing does not clearly state the connection you are claiming it does. You need to explain the connection and bring in more reliable sources so that the assertion can be verified. —C.Fred (talk) 03:16, 26 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Let's work constructively on this

Nikova, another editor has located some references in the Fairfax Media archives which are what are needed here. Smorgon saga of sons and lovers confirms that Albert Langer is the son of Michelle Langer, and the connection to the Smorgon family. Note that this makes Victor and Albert stepbrothers at most. There should also be more information in the book Living the Dream: The Story of Victor Smorgon by Rod Myer. I think the connection is worth mentioning as we now have some reliable references, and I'm happy to work constructively to include this, but it doesn't belong in the lede and they are not "biological brothers" as you claim on your user page. --Canley (talk) 03:26, 26 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks Canley. I suspect that they are in fact biological brothers, but at this point in time that claim is, indeed, still unproven.

Formal mediation has been requested

The Mediation Committee has received a request for formal mediation of the dispute relating to "Albert Langer: I would like to include a reference to Victor Smorgon on his wikipedia page but have been blocked from doing so.". As an editor concerned in this dispute, you are invited to participate in the mediation. Mediation is a voluntary process which resolves a dispute over article content by facilitation, consensus-building, and compromise among the involved editors. After reviewing the request page, the formal mediation policy, and the guide to formal mediation, please indicate in the "party agreement" section whether you agree to participate. Because requests must be responded to by the Mediation Committee within seven days, please respond to the request by 5 March 2015.

Discussion relating to the mediation request is welcome at the case talk page. Thank you.
Message delivered by MediationBot (talk) on behalf of the Mediation Committee. 03:33, 26 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Request for mediation rejected

The request for formal mediation concerning Albert Langer, to which you were listed as a party, has been declined. To read an explanation by the Mediation Committee for the rejection of this request, see the mediation request page, which will be deleted by an administrator after a reasonable time. Please direct questions relating to this request to the Chairman of the Committee, or to the mailing list. For more information on forms of dispute resolution, other than formal mediation, that are available, see Wikipedia:Dispute resolution.

For the Mediation Committee, TransporterMan (TALK) 16:06, 26 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
(Delivered by MediationBot, on behalf of the Mediation Committee.)

February 2015

Please do not add unreferenced or poorly referenced information, especially if controversial, to articles or any other page on Wikipedia about living (or recently deceased) persons, as you did to Albert Langer. Please note that in addition to adding unreferenced information of a controversial nature (you can't self reference), you've also indicated that you possibly have a conflict of interests with this topic. ROBERTMFROMLI | ^TK/_CN 18:46, 27 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

This infomation is freely available from ASIC.

Please remember to sign your posts with ~~~~. If the information is available elsewhere, then you must add a citation to it. Please check the links above to learn how. ROBERTMFROMLI | ^TK/_CN 18:52, 27 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Notice of Edit warring noticeboard discussion

Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion involving you at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring regarding a possible violation of Wikipedia's policy on edit warring. The thread is Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring#User:Nikova_Kalish reported by User:GeorgeLouis (Result: ). Thank you. GeorgeLouis (talk) 19:10, 27 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Welcome!

Hello, Nikova Kalish, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions.

I noticed that one of the first articles you edited was Albert Langer, which appears to be dealing with a topic with which you may have a conflict of interest. In other words, you may find it difficult to write about that topic in a neutral and objective way, because you are, work for, or represent, the subject of that article. Your recent contributions may have already been undone for this very reason.

To reduce the chances of your contributions being undone, you might like to draft your revised article before submission, and then ask me or another editor to proofread it. See our help page on userspace drafts for more details. If the page you created has already been deleted from Wikipedia, but you want to save the content from it to use for that draft, don't hesitate to ask anyone from this list and they will copy it to your user page.

One rule we do have in connection with conflicts of interest is that accounts used by more than one person will unfortunately be blocked from editing. Wikipedia generally does not allow editors to have usernames which imply that the account belongs to a company or corporation. If you have a username like this, you should request a change of username or create a new account. (A name that identifies the user as an individual within a given organization may be OK.)

Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

The plain and simple conflict of interest guide
The five pillars of Wikipedia
Contributing to Wikipedia
Tutorial
How to edit a page and How to develop articles
How to create your first article (using the Article Wizard if you wish)
Simplified Manual of Style

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your messages on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically insert your username and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or ask your question on this page and then place {{Help me}} before the question. Again, welcome! GeorgeLouis (talk) 19:16, 27 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

To whom it may concern,

I confirm that there is indeed a conflict of interest.

I am willing to provide documentary evidence to support all of my factual claims. I am also willing to listen to advice on how best to present the infomation for public consumption. I am indeed Albert Langer's daughter. Albert Langer is indeed Victor Smorgon's brother. Albert Langer is indeed the main shareholder of Tinville Pty Ltd, a privately owned company directed by his wife Kerry Miller and his daughter Sally Langer.

Sincerely, Nikova Kalish

February 2015

You have been blocked indefinitely from editing for abuse of editing privileges. If you think there are good reasons why you should be unblocked, you may appeal this block by adding the following text below this notice: {{unblock|reason=Your reason here ~~~~}}. However, you should read the guide to appealing blocks first. Drmies (talk) 19:40, 27 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Dear Nikova Kalish, an indefinite block may seem a bit harsh, but there are a few reasons for it. First, this is a BLP, and that means extra scrutiny (I'm not going to give more detail on our policies; there's plenty on this talk page and elsewhere). Second, you've been edit warring there since the beginning. Third, this is clearly your only interest. Now, the moment you place an unblock request here (instructions are above, in the block warning), in which you will explain that you will not go edit warring again, and that you will not edit Albert Langer or Victor Smorgon until you have found consensus for your edits on the article talk page, and that you will at least try to understand the difference between secondary and primary sources, that moment, I say, you may well be unblocked. In other words, from indefinitely blocked to unblocked is easy. Drmies (talk) 19:45, 27 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

It is, indeed, extremely harsh, considering the vast differences in financial resources between myself, Albert Langer, and Victor Smorgon. Nevertheless I shall endevour to prove my case using primary resources from the department of births, deaths and marriages, as well as ASIC.

I am not of the opinion that it is unreasonable to present infomation about the family and financial circumstances of "public figures".

-- Nikova Kalish

If that is how you feel, then Wikipedia is not the venue for you. We have established policies on articles about living people, and that includes using secondary sources rather than birth records and the like. All editors are expected to follow those policies.

So long as you are unwilling to follow the policies established for editing Wikipedia, you may not edit it. —C.Fred (talk) 01:13, 28 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]