User talk:Kleinzach/Archive 9

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Opera corpus

Hello. Sorry about that, I'm now registered. Just thought I might try out a few things. I'm going though articles in the Penguin Companion to Music (Paul Griffiths) and adding some titles. Not sure about full articles yet, though I'm happy to work something out. Schwarze wolken 02:56, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

All done for now

Sorry for the headache, if there is one. Feel free to adjust however. Schwarze wolken 05:47, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

Alexander Twice/Dvakrát Alexandr/Alexandre bis

OK how about naming this? As far as I can see, has not been done in English, was written as 'Alexandre bis' - has WP entry as Alexander Twice. Grove Opera gives 'Alexandre bis'. I would have thought therefore the French title on balance -? Best regards --Smerus 14:02, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

I am in Prague now and have done a bit of research. The libretto was originally written in French and set by Martinu in French. Therefore some case for a French title as per Grove.--Smerus 16:52, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

Quick infobox question

First, I'm aware of how contentious these are.

I was experimenting, and found that Berlioz can use one without being inaccurate (as he was born and died in what is currently France), I wasn't going to add it without permission, though. But then I noticed that I couldn't add specific sections (I was thinking of seeing how workable a "genres specialised in" section would be) - I'm assuming that infoboxes don't work like tables? And each option required needs to be on the template itself? If so, that's very counter-productive indeed... if it was customisable for each specific composer that would be much more straight-forward, but I don't know if that is possible/permissable... Lethe 18:11, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

Edit2: Actually, sorry, I just found this User:Turangalila/sandbox/Infobox_composer. Not sure how useful it is yet, but it's too long anyway, the left column descriptions are often two lines despite the actual content being one (eg. "Commonly classified as..." "classical" and "Other occupations" "critic")... Lethe 19:28, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, I'll skip trying to work on a Berlioz one :-) Lethe 14:20, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

opera director vs. opera manager...et. al

i noticed you have changed a few of the edits i've made with regard to the use of the term 'opera manager'. perhaps you can tell me the difference(s) between the term(s) you favour for: 'he who is head opera boss'. --emerson7 | Talk 18:39, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

Hi. Thanks for your note. I put some short explanations in the edit summaries but perhaps it's better to talk about this. We've been using 'opera director' in the sense of 'opera stage director' rather than opera intendant/administrator. There is a List of opera directors and you'll see they are all people who direct/directed the staging of operas. They are also in Category:Opera directors.

Category:Opera managers has been used for administrators ('he who is head opera boss') - who may be referred to as managers, directors or intendants depending on which opera house and which country they are operating in. IMO we don't need a separate category of opera administrators because we would be unable to distinguish them from 'opera managers'. (BTW I'm also in favour of using the word 'intendant' (which is an English word) untranslated/as is.)

Does that all seem sensible? Let me know if you see any problems. -- Kleinzach 23:26, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

...well...no, not really! [laughing out loud]...lemme get this straight:

Category:Opera managers  =  admins, directors, and managers = intendants
Category:Opera directors =  stage directors 
List of opera directors   =  all of the above
theatre director          =  stage directors  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Emerson7 (talk • contribs) 01:15, August 30, 2007 (UTC) 

No it's much simpler than that:

• Category:Opera managers = admins (intendants), opera house managers, impresarios
• Category:Opera directors and List of opera directors = opera stage directors

__ Kleinzach 01:30, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

I didn’t read this to the end when I changed Domingo’s category from “Opera Managers” to “Opera Directors”. I was actually referring to his job title than the description. Thanks for the explanation. - Jay 02:04, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

well...you shouldn't be surprised if you find more. i made quite a few such edits before we had this discussion two weeks ago. although i'm still not totally clear on the concept, i am trying to comport. it becomes particularly confusing when sources use the terms interchangeably and even worse when translating. and when you throw in the fact that some have actually served as both...well...that's enough to make one's head explode. --emerson7 | Talk 14:41, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

cool...you might want to check on Heinrich Reif-Gintl. i had no idea what to do with that one, so kinda just made a copy/paste from the source. --emerson7 | Talk 16:38, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Die Hochzeit assessment

1. Do the assessment on the back of an envelope so that you know which class to put it in and what improvements to recommend.

2. Create a sub-page of Talk:Die Hochzeit called Talk:Die Hochzeit/Comments - I've done this already - insert your thoughts on the rating and ways of improving it, and save it.

3. Edit the Talk:Die Hochzeit page so that the banner + parameter {{Wagner | auto=yes}} no longer says "auto=yes" but instead says "class=Stub" (or "class=Start", or "class=B", or etc. as appropriate).

4. Click Preview to see if it worked.

5. And so on, as usual.

Hope this helps. I'm off to bed now but will be around tomorrow. --GuillaumeTell 00:33, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

Back at work translating

Hi Kleinzach, I'm back on the wiki after exams and a summer break, and thought I should let you know that I just created (by translation from the German wiki) Rudolf Dellinger, Nico Dostal and Edmund Eysler. Would you mind giving them a once-over for coherent English and fact-checking if possible? Thanks very much. Cricketgirl 00:03, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

Also I've done Rudolf Kattnigg and Ludwig Schmidseder. Hope they're useful! Cricketgirl 16:52, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

I'm still with my family on my summer break, but I'll be going back to Oxford soon. I hope you've been well and everything is going ok? Cricketgirl 10:27, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

I'm working on August Bungert now - you'll probably notice a load of German commented out, which I copied over from the German article earlier. I'm pretty busy today so this will be slow progress, but I wanted to ask you - there are two pictures in the German article, and I don't know how to make them work in English (I don't really know anything about pictures and Wikipedia!) - the file names are at the top and commented out, with translated captions. Would you be interested in helping them make the transition, or should I just delete them? KR, Cricketgirl 13:08, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

Excellent, thanks for that! I'll get back to translation once I fix my family's wireless... Cricketgirl 14:29, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

Just finished August Bungert - would you mind taking a quick look to fix my German-English hybrid which sometimes breaks out when I translate? Thanks! Cricketgirl 12:30, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Ditto Wilhelm Kienzl. Cricketgirl 23:19, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the great clean-up you're doing - I lose the ability to speak fluent English when I translate! Ironic, for a copyeditor... Cricketgirl 23:49, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

Also, I just signed up to WP:CM in the hope of finding more to translate - it's good for me to keep up my German while I'm in Oxford, and re-created the sections on my desk - so this is basically a plea: if you find something - anything! - you want translated, under any WikiProject, dump it on my desk under the "Pages needing translation from German wiki" heading, and I'll get to work. I'll report back to you and let you update the project pages as relevant? Let me know what you think. If this is generating too much cleanup and updating work for you (which I definitely don't want to do...), feel free to put me in touch with someone else for the same general idea. Cheers, Cricketgirl 00:15, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

Hmmm, interests... My favourite opera composers are Verdi and Puccini, but obviously there's not much from the German that needs doing for them! Otherwise Beethoven, Brahms, Mahler (aren't I a populist...) - so stuff about their works or performers of their works? I'm quite enjoying translating biography articles, so singers generally are good - Deborah Polaski, for instance, is only in the German wiki, which is strange for an American singer... Anyway I'm off to bed now and probably won't be around a huge amount tomorrow, but dump some stuff (I've already got the Wiener Staatsoper article listed - basically I stole the "please translate" list from WP:Opera) and I'll get to work. I'm halfway through Albert Lortzing at the moment, but I need to sleep. Night, Cricketgirl 00:39, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

Collapsible navigation boxes

i just changed the default state to expand. that should take care of it. cheers! --emerson7 | Talk 16:34, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

oic...i've never heard of such a 'policy.' my guess is that some people just don't like looking at them while they are expanded. i just cleaned up the internal coding a bit. hope it okay. --emerson7 | Talk 23:17, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

okay. i converted the entire thing....is that what you're looking for? --emerson7 | Talk 00:06, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

well...so much for that! all of his requirements seem to be met by the changes i made, but he's still not satisfied. what's that guy's problem? --emerson7 | Talk 00:23, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

Friedlinde Wagner

I sided with you. Will press on with more assessments asap. --GuillaumeTell 10:46, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

Opera buffa

IMHO, the article is fairly good, but it could have separate sections about different periods of the development of opera buffa, like in the opera seria article. There should be more info on certain subjects, e.g. the Querelle des Bouffons. Some info on the opera's structure could be added too.

I've added the article to the Wikipedia:Requests for expansion page. --Peter gk 08:35, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Der Zar lässt sich photographieren

You said "It's not really important but the previous order of roles was based on the fact that the 'false' characters appear (or sing?) before the real ones." No such thing happened happened in the performance that I saw earlier this year. The work starts (after the chorus chants the title) with the real Angèle, her assistant and the boy in the studio and they all have something to sing. Then the leader of the assassins enters, followed by the false characters, who tie up and conceal the real ones. Then the Tsar arrives, and so on. --GuillaumeTell 10:58, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Singer of the Month

I'm back at my desk [1]. Best, Voceditenore 17:46, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Wagner family tree

I've translated the tree from German (ie. all the jobs and "divorced"/"remarried"), but I don't really know how best to format it and also what categories are applicable. It's here at the moment - feel free leave more instructions on my talk page, or move the contents to an article page. Cricketgirl 17:10, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Ah yes, sorry for moving it and not telling you... oops... Cricketgirl 11:34, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

Bodo Lafferentz

Interesting! Translating quickly from his German article: "In 1928 he wrote a doctorate on the theme of "Economic planning and Price Regulation". After that he worked in the German Employers' Association, and from 1929 was responsible for unemployment benefit distribution (in some way... will need to get a legal German dictionary out to translate all the technical terms!). He joined NSDAP in March 1933" and it would appear, went on from there! So I think while the German version is not technically lying (my translation of "Dr. rer. pol." maybe should mention something economic, will look into this), it is a little sanitised. I think it's worth including his Nazi connections, so shall I work on a translation of his article too? (or at least enough to get a decent picture of his role? or do you not think it's worth it? Cricketgirl 15:28, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

Have translated, is now here. He was clearly an SS personality and a politically-powerful one at that (not just a hired thug) - "Doctor of Political Science" (which I am certain is the correct translation from the German "Dr. rer. pol.") is very sanitised. However, the German article does have a stub-like notice indicating a lack of material post-1945, so he might have turned good at the end? Unlikely though, I suspect it is just a reference to his doctorate. Let me know what you want to do about this. Regards, Cricketgirl 21:44, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Looks good to me - well noticed! Cricketgirl 22:06, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

Vladimir Jurowski

GuillaumeTell is right. The Classical Music project has a policy of not using infoboxes for conductors, just as the Opera Project doesn't use them for singers. Regards. -- Kleinzach 11:16, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

actually that not correct. the policy is 'composers', not conductors. --emerson7 13:26, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Counting redlinks/AWB

So you would like an easy way of counting all the blue links from A to Z in The opera corpus ... I'll see if AWB has any wisdom to impart, and otherwise will ask around. AWB will certainly make a list of all the links (there are 2197) at a stroke but is red/blue colour blind. If you were to add some distinctive text to all the redlinks (eg *) then AWB can filter them out and would compute in a trice the number of blue links. I will ask user:Carcharoth who usually has the answer to anything. You could alternatively (perhaps) put the talk page of each existing article in a yet-to-be-defined WikiOpera category, which would tell you how many there were. (You already have Category:WikiProject Opera articles. AWB can count these easily enough - I've listed all 3563 of these at (there are some rogue ones at the end, which will doubtless be due to a missing : on the respective page).) Occuli 13:41, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

Um. I'm very flattered, but you may have confused me with someone else. I can't think of an answer offhand, but I'm sure what you are asking for is possible. If you look at the source code for the page, for instance, there will be an "edit" bit in the links associated with red-links. That's one way to filter them. Try asking at Wikipedia:Village pump (technical). Ultimately, as you say, a category on the article, or template on the talk page is the easiest way to keep track of things like this. Carcharoth 14:06, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

No confusion, unless there are multiple Carcharoths. Can AWB filter using the source code? (I understood that bit and indeed see the difference.) AWB produces User:Occuli/sandbox6 - another idea might be to make this into a sortable table and put some symbol in a column next to the redlinks (so it will sort into red and blue). Unfortunately I have paid little attention to tables, but perhaps could redress this deficiency. Occuli 15:08, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

Tables are awful. I don't understand them at all. Anyway, there are others who know far more about this than me. Keep asking round and you will get your answer eventually. Good luck. Carcharoth 15:35, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

Heh. Maybe I can do anything! :-) I'm completely hopeless at doing things the right way, but have a look at User:Occuli/sandbox6 and all the redlinks are now labelled with the text "red" (I used the source code for the page). Managed to do a load of search and replace in the rubbish internet cafe I'm in, where Wordpad is the only thing they let you use, and that was the result. You should be able to sort it in Excel now to filter out the real articles and the redlinks. It's like doing a crossword puzzle. But much better! :-) 193.82.16.42 20:01, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

Ooh. Scary. It looks like this internet cafe has a resident sockpuppet! Look at the user page: 193.82.16.42 20:03, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I think that will do at least a quick fix, because the redlinks can now be listed in order so we will know how many there are. And we know how many there are in all so that will be a QED. Trust you are not blocked. Occuli 20:10, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

Thanks very much to both of you. Sorry to arrive late but I'm on a different time zone here! People are contributing new opera articles all the time, usually unaware of The opera corpus so it wouldn't really be possible to annotate red links. However with the red 'label' I'll be able to get some results which is great. Is this something we could do every six months or so? Best. -- Kleinzach 00:17, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

I've listed the links (give or take the odd accent) at User:Occuli/sandbox8 ... there's a pair of links, the first beginning ZXXX if it's red. You could do something similar with the entire list to indicate and count which are composers (it sorts in Word). Occuli 02:11, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

RE: Greetings from the Opera Project and Wagner Project

Thank you very much! :D
I love Madrid Metro, and I like graphic design, so I tried to make some logos for the estations by mexico-city-metro-style.
Personally, Opera one is the best, it's my masterpiece :P
Thanks. Javitomad (...tell me...) 13:29, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

Well... I could try to make something... What colours wolud you like me to use? Give more information, please.
Javitomad (...tell me...) 21:59, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

The way you want... I'm also available by e-mail, so... anyway you like.
Send me some photos... or show them to me... or something... :P
Javitomad (...tell me...) 13:41, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

Albert Lortzing

Is all done now. Regards, Cricketgirl 22:06, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, my fault for translating directly and not going back to check that the word/sentence order makes sense!

• Grabbe: How I understand it is: the glowing review assumed that Lortzing had written the play, whereas he had actually only written the music, Grabbe had written the text, so Grabbe was a bit put out.
• Zar und Zimmermann: the German article implies that Z&Z was Lortzing's first comic opera - the German article on Z&Z says that it is a comic opera but doesn't say whether it is the first, although the German paragraph does imply it with the talk of Leipzig censors but a big reception in Berlin.
• Also, I forgot to say yesterday: The biography section is translated, the "Works" section is pretty much everything that was already in the English version before I started working. Just if that clarifies anything...
• I've done Spieloper.

Cricketgirl 10:08, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

• And Heinrich Strecker. Cricketgirl 16:28, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

Teneke (opera)

Hi! Your move Teneke (opera)→ Teneke was not necessary, because the opera is an adaptation from the novel "Teneke", and the article about the novel will be coming soon. A note of you in the related talkpage would be replied with this reason. Cheers.CeeGee 17:21, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for your note. The page about the novel should really have been created first, then there wouldn't have been any problem. Regards. -- Kleinzach 23:15, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

Ivogun

I replied to your remark on my own page. Eebahgum 15:57, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

Porin

A 'chivalric opera in the grand opera tradition' (or a 'knightly opera' as earlier editions of Grove have it) is surely not a grand opera for category purposes - although it might perhaps warrant a mention in the article if anyone really knew anything else about it. I don't know - and Grove doesn't explain - what is meant by 'chivalric opera', but the fact remains that it does not describe Porin as a grand opera. If you are going to include it as such, you open the way for 'Meistersinger' or even Goetterdaemmerung, etc. I think it is better to keep the article centred on the Paris Opéra tradition (as does Grove). Best regards Smerus 07:03, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

• Your argument is persuasive and I have restored the cat. I have also added a rider at the header of Category:Grand operas to make it clear that the category is not 'exclusive'. Don't blame me now if someone posts 'Goetterdaemmerung' :-} (I am tempted but I won't). We still have to consider in the article Czech and Russian grand or quasi-grand operas, which makes it overall easier to have a relaxed definition for the category. --Smerus 18:05, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

Parsifal

Yes I know it's a GA, but we still need to report our assessments to provide information in the right place on how close it is or isn't to A grade. And given some of my sub-marks changed, I think it is worth everyone reassessing without reference to their previous scoring to see how consitent individual ratings are.--Peter cohen 09:52, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

Infoboxes

Hello Kleinzach, sure a list of bioinfoboxes could be useful.

B.t.w. I'm not optimistic about holding off infoboxes in the long run. There seems to be a huge number of teenagers who hang out on Wikipedia, treating it as a kind of extended MySpace site. These people they don't add content, but they play with templates and interact a lot. They are so numerous, I suspect that sooner or later they are likely to dictate an outcome which we will not like. (I had a very unpleasant teenager encounter a few months ago.) So perhaps the long term wise solution is to devise really minimal, nonoffensive infoboxes (e.g., just a picture and life dates, or something like that), to head them off. Cheers, Opus33 01:06, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

infoboxes

okay, i'm gonna have to ask you politely to please stop removing infoboxes on conductors. this is hardly a closed issue, and i'm asking for more comment and requesting that you respect the process.--emerson7 01:36, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

Not canvas puppet

Hi Kleinzach, thanks for your polite reply concerning the canvassing. I think perhaps you misconstrue my motives in joining the discussion at Proposal on bio-infoboxes though. --S.dedalus 23:56, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

Actually emerson7 seems to have picked people from the projects indiscriminately. In fact one of the users he contacted, User:Garion96, just voted AGAINST user boxes. But I’m sure now that you know that you will also ask him to withdraw his vote. . . --S.dedalus 00:07, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

Sessions Links

Sorry, I will test links in the future. I was surprised that I did not successfully disambiguate the Montezuma link. This is a level of complexity I have never encountered. At any rate I appreciate your feedback and will be more vigilant in the future.Canticle 08:38, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the tips and welcome!

Very much appreciate your welcoming me and pointing out the tips to using wikipedia! These will be very handy, as there is much I have to learn about using wikipedia. :-) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hrannar (talk • contribs) 14:56, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

Here the logo is!

New Wagner WikiProject Logo by Javitomad.

Old Wagner WikiProject Logo by Javitomad.

I know i've spent so much time... but here it is: The logo for Richard Wagner WikiProject... I hope you like it.
Javitomad (...tell me...) 21:26, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

According to the talk of the wikiproject I've re-made the logo... and here it is (again)
:P
Javitomad (...tell me...) 20:54, 9 October 2007 (UTC)