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Archive This is an archive of past discussions. Please do not edit it.

If you wish to revitalize an old topic, bring it up on my main talk page, copying or summarizing the section you are replying to if necessary.

This archive page covers discussion from January and February of 2006.

Archive 1Archive 2Archive 3Archive 4Archive 5

Thank you

Hi Josiah. Thank you very much for the medal, very kind of you! Our Friends in the North is just basically something I love so much that I thought I just *had* to get its Wikipedia article up to scratch. It was actually the very first article I created when I joined nearly two years ago now. In a way it's almost a shame Christopher Eccleston was cast as the Ninth Doctor, as these days people probably think I only like it because he's in it! As for my Doctor Who contributions... well, when noting articles I've heavily contributed to on my user page I tend to think "Would this article be at the standard it is if I hadn't written for it?". With the exception of History of Doctor Who, possibly, I don't think any of the Who stuff I've done counts under that rule, as there are so many other people writing good Who stuff here — such as your good self! — that they're bound be up to a good standard. Angmering 16:36, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

I seem to recall from searching old Usenet postings in Google Groups that it did turn up on PBS during the 1990s, and I know for certain that it was part of BBC America's stable a while back, so it did get an airing there. No idea if it's out on Region 1 DVD, though. Angmering 16:55, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

Ευτυχισμένο το Νέο Ετος

Having said that, I noticed you deleted my categorization of bad boy Achilles (→External links - removed questionable category: Achilles a pederast only in a now-lost play of Euripides, not really a deity either) While Achilles was not strictly speaking a god, he was most certainly a deity, as were all Greek divine heroes. As for his pederastic side, he was a "normal Greek," after all, and so it is to be expected that he would have exhibited a pederastic aspect (interesting that it should manifest in such a rapacious form, though). The fact that the record of his pederastic grab at Troilus is in a lost (or destroyed) play in no way diminishes the importance of the fact. See [here for just one of many examples of early vases depicting Achilles chasing Troilus at the lion fountain outside the walls of Troy. The iconographic record, I am sure you'll agree, is at least as important as the literary one. Regards, Haiduc 21:09, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

Rules are made to be broken, as they say. The fact is that within the Greek pederastic tradition there are a couple of stories (the Troilus episode, and Laius and Chrysippus, and the pre-Ovidian Narcissus) which serve as counterexamples of what "should" be done. Nevertheless, they are part and parcel of the tradition. As for Achilles and Patroclus being pederastic, I think the Greeks themselves muddled that one up so thoroughly that I would not want to join that fray. Thanks for the latitude. Haiduc 03:39, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

Anglo-Catholicism

Please check your dictionary -- if not Websters or the OED then the Oxford Dictionary of the Christian Church. The correct term is indeed "ceremonial," which in this context is a noun, not an adjective.Masalai 06:01, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

Ceremonial

I stand corrected: I had only ever encountered the word as an adjective. A quick check of dictionary.com shows that you are correct. It still sounds odd to my ears, but perhaps it's simply a usage not found in U.S. dialects. —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 05:59, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

Well, maybe...but I've been to high church Episcopal parishes in the States and they are plus royaux que le roi as far as their Englishy ways go. Masalai 06:07, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

Doctor Who stubs

Hi. My bad. I only removed one - from The Chase - because the article wasn't a stub, but it occurred to me that it was a useful marker when I saw the one on The Celestial Toymaker (and realised the section stubs are so unspecific), so I left the others in place. I've restored the stub to The Chase too. --Whouk (talk) 18:35, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

Doctor Who episode naming

Josiah, thanks for the supportive message. I also understand the arguments for and against, although I admittedly was shocked at the fierceness of the comments. I did end up editing one of the serials, namely from 100,000 BC to 100,000 BC (Doctor Who), as this one should be identified properly. DA or Dys or DysAg is fine too! Dyslexic agnostic 20:44, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

Re:Re-categorizing

Hmm. We could just put Death Comes to Time in the (hpothetical, at the moment) "Seventh Doctor stories" category, or we could change the description, it's up to you. I'm going by Doctor, so if you want to go alphabetically to lighten my load, go for it.--Sean|Black 04:46, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

Cool, go for it.--Sean|Black 04:56, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

Did we get them all? If so, good work. --Sean|Black 06:58, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

Eh. I mean. They'll only ever be the two, unless A.) The British government develops some sort of program to ressurect deceased entertainers, or B.) We really stretch it and include Zagreus. Neither one sounds like it would work.--Sean|Black 07:05, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

Just what I needed!

thanks, man!! that was exactly what I needed to hear! I'm lating you know a couple of things: first, I'm trying to drop the sarcasm; second, you were wrong, you were always very polite, and that's precisely why I personaly admire you so much. You really showed me better (from the begining, not just right now)!!

I hope you had a merry xmas ans happy new year!

--T for Trouble-maker 07:46, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

You're Welcome

Glad to be of service. I thought it was strange that he was silent for three weeks and then comes back to make one edit (to vandalize your user page). Oh well. No Guru 16:48, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

Who Before Who

Thank you. Your comments were helpful, and I have followed up one of your suggestions immediately. After I hear back from that person (if I hear back from him after a reasonable time) I might follow up a couple of your other suggestions. Bburn 23:06, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

Wikiproject: Doctor Who

Hello, Josiah, and a Happy New Year to you. First, I would like to thank you for your kindness in welcoming me to the Wikipedian fold. You, in particular, have been truly great.

Secondly, I would like to ask you about the Doctor Who Wikiproject. Now, I have already put my name on the list of participants, and have already left a comment (on the section about which books should have their own pages). I admit, I have no clue how these discussion-type-things work, and would be ever so grateful if you could tell me how the "leave-a-message, continue-a-conversation" thing works? Please don't feel any obligation to tell me ASAP - I know you are extremely busy, and I have every respect for your editing duties.

Thank you very much for your time. - NP Chilla 17:46, 7th January 2006 (GMT)

Oz etc

Yeah, I stumbled upon it on Newpage patrol and was unaware of the history behind its creation. If anything, the page NEEDS NEEDS NEEDS to be renamed. I haven't read through all of it, but if it is just as the akward title asserts, containing "meaning," (and it was largely written by one contributor), it might have POV issues that'll need to be addressed. Just my two cents, and thanks for the clarification. --Jeffrey O. Gustafson - Shazaam! - <*> 00:21, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

Template:Doctorwho

New userbox I made... type {{doctorwho}} for

and {{doctorwho|ninth}} (or any other Doctor) for

--TheDoctor10 (talk|email) 09:38, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

Wikiproject: Doctor Who

That is absolutely fantastic, and your answer to my question was absolutely spot on. Thank you from the very bottom of my heart(s)!! - NP Chilla (talk) 17:37, 8 January 2006 (GMT)

Page Merge

Hello Josiah, thanks for the reminder about the page merge. You have the article is Lengths of science fiction series/temp, which has an edit history that should be merged with that of Lengths of science fiction series. I promised to help you with this a long time ago, and I'm now finally taking it on. Since I've never done a history merge, I read the instructions at Wikipedia:How to fix cut and paste moves. It seems like what we have here is a "Category 3" move, where the two articles are not disjoint. In other words, one article's history does not end before the other one begins. The temp article (which was created first) has also been edited more recently than the creation date of the new article. That means there is some potential for confusion if the histories are merged. The policy says:

An appropriate procedure for such a case is to forego the history merge, and instead handle the situation much like a normal merge; put a note pointing to the other version of the page on the article's talk page. If it is inappropriate to leave the second copy in the main article space, you can archive the duplicate page to Talk: space (i.e. by moving it to some suitable title, such as Talk:RandomArticle/OldVersion).

Therefore, my proposed solution would be to do a page move from Lengths of science fiction series/temp to Talk:Lengths of science fiction series/Old temp version, and to place a note on Talk:Lengths of science fiction series to the effect that some of the article history can be found at Talk:Lengths of science fiction series/Old temp version. Please let me know if you agree with this remedy. Thanks very much, Johntex\talk 20:23, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

IP Checking

IP Checks can only be done by Wikipedia:Developers, actually. You'll have to ask one of them. Unfortunately all I can recommend at this point is that you use the test templates and request administrator action when the editor violates the WP:3RR or if the vandalism continues for a period longer than a week without any discussion. If this continues we can block the articles in question specifically from being moved, without affecting edit privileges. --DDG 20:01, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

I doubt there are set regulations on time between page move requests, but the fact that the anon is still moving pages around will probably hurt your case more than anything. I would wait on nominating it until that is resolved, but that's just a personal opinion. --DDG 20:19, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

Science_fiction_Western#AfD_Failed

Thanks! I appreciate the clarification/support. ++Lar: t/c 22:29, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

Not a problem. Peace Inside seemed to have been needlessly confrontational on the subject, but he's behaving more civilly now. —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 01:45, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

Essaioi-Essenes

Josiah, many thanks for your help! Also for your kind words, although my efforts were far too humble and inadequate as to merit them. The main article needs and deserves quite a bit more work; but I am sorry to say that I don't have the time for systematic contributions, here or elsewhere, much as I appreciate the Wikipedia concept. All I am able to do on my occasional visits is to add little touches where a point or other catches my eye (which, incidentally, is why I am quite happy not to sign in and to have a dynamic IP address...). Perhaps it ought to be put on the list of articles requiring attention? 86.136.187.9 23:15, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

Re: "Voting is evil"

We were beginning to work towards a consensus here when someone unfamiliar with the "voting is evil" concept put it up at WP:RM.

I'm familiar with it, I just happen not to agree with it, especially in a binary (move, don't move) situation with two users adamantly opposed to a move and no wiggle room. - SoM 15:27, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

Requested move

Ouch, that's a tough one. I don't think Nightstallion was wrong to close it that way, but I don't think that should be treated as as the be-all and end-all final decision so therefore it can never be moved, either. No consensus, indeed. This is just as hard in its own way and for the same reasons as the Ivo... erm, that country in Africa which was the subject of a similar naming war, for almost exactly the same reasons. It's a tough call. Keep talking about it. Mindspillage (spill yours?) 22:34, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

Magic Flute

You are quite right, we should use English, even if some users do not agree. So I've put the move up on WP:RM. Please come to Talk:Die Zauberflöte and discuss. Septentrionalis 06:20, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

Bakshi's LOTR

I did not watch Bakashi's LOTR but did it have action packed battles or was it disappointing?Batzarro 07:31, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for voting!

Hello there! I wanted to thank you for taking the time to vote on my arbitration commitee nomination. Although it was not successful, I appreciate the time you spent to read my statement and questions and for then voting, either positively or negativly. Again, thank you! Páll (Die pienk olifant) 22:44, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

Proposed wording for "Wikipedia is not a fan site"

Hi, Josiah,

A while back, after the Lost (TV series) pages started getting crufty, I floated a proposal that "Wikipedia is not a fan site" for What Wikipedia is not. I've cleaned up the proposal material, and in anticipation of polling, put it up for review at: User_talk:Leflyman/Not_a_Fansite. As your interests cover a variety of fandoms, I'd be pleased to have your input and suggestions. You may also want to review the comments when I first brought it up on the talk page for What Wikipedia is not in November, which I've copied to the bottom of my "sub-page". Let me know what you think! —LeFlyman 21:31, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

Needing evidence

Hi! quick question: Where did you meet Dyslexic Agnostic editing somethig about Dr. Who episodes? That's a crucial piece of info for one of my assertins of my WK:RfA case against him. Don't worry, I'd never dare to put such a good friend like yourself in an unconftable possition. I only need to show DA knows there are articles about series episodes. Great edit you did on Enemies of Batman, by the way, that way you put Bond mastermind thing about Ra's Al Ghul instead of my babbling was genius! You saved my honor again there with your magic words. Oh, and you still owe me some word's about that Dr. who sort of pop(underground-ish??)cult I've been learning about lately last 2 years. Hehe.--T-man... ""worst vandal ever"" 04:08, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

Wow, that was great: I'm only not sure about this part: D.A. has been provoked, but should also be more patient with well-intentioned contributions, and should attempt not to respond to personal attacks in kind But that's probabbly decause I still ignorant about what is and what isn't a personal attack. What I'm undestanding as my attacks to DA, usually come after one of his contradictory actions on a page, especifically on my edits. I think his m.o. is saying he cares about working toguether and then his blind reverts and coldness come as his atacks. And when I aked for his help he refused (Exibit T3-b) and later instead of doing as i did by asking for his help he wrote horrendous Exhibit T3-c.

The most annoying part is that he is editing something that he obviously afitionating getting into with giaint steps, but is still in a "Exhibit T3-c" fetus face, like if he were a big knoledge authority or somethig. I'm not talking absotutes, it's all relative, but I mean, newby amateurs should be abble to edit, but sourcing or respecting a little the more experienced is basic. He has never rephrased.

To me, talking on a personal level not involved with the RfA, the problem with DA's insults is that now I can't determine where exactly my English stands. I ignore the meaning of the word vervose. I guess is something out of fashion that look wrong now. Probably because Spanish is too descriptive and that's what is speak every day. If this theory is correct, that'd mean the equivalent on the Wikipedia en español or the Bizarro T-man would kind of look like a native English speaker writing spanish in a totally out of fashion Don Quijote fashion with some grammar, spelling and therefore sintax problems. the harder part to determine would be wether that's in a minor of bigger scale. I mean I dunno where do I stand between "ga-ga-me-know-Engleeesh", Yoda, and a Frasier Crane (or Howard Stern or Dennis Miller if you add the explicity and the references). But how am I supposed to know if mosto of my references come from a bugger.

But thanks, you are the man. I don't know how you do it but you put my wrongs in such way that I even feel flattered, haha.--T-man... ""worst vandal ever"" 00:17, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

Sydney Newman

Hi Josiah. I'm trying to drum up some comment on the Sydney Newman article, which I've been working away on these past few weeks. Links on peer review, the Who wikiproject and even the Canadian wikipedians notice board don't seem to have attracted any interest, and I need some feedback before I try throwing it to the hounds of FAC. Any chance you could run your eye over it? I'm quite pleased with it, but as it's basically been a one-man job since I re-built it from the ground up back in November, I think it needs some outside views and nobody else seems very interested in giving any so far. Cheers. Angmering 20:19, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

Cheers Josiah! Angmering 10:31, 4 February 2006 (UTC)
I do credit it as a featured article on my major contributions page. And I am a member of the WikiProject, so it makes sense to credit it to the project. I'm rather proud of the fact that Doctor Who has some, if not *the*, non-cruftiest articles of all sci-fi shows on Wikipedia, and that I've done a small amount to help with that.Angmering 08:02, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

DA says thanks

Thanks for taking the time to post to this arbitration issue... it's been a nightmare for me, and I don't see why T-man has such a vendetta to destroy me, spending all his time attacking me (even on this very page). Unlike him, I won't try to convince you to alter your entry, and I won't stoop to personal attacks against him. Your comments were fair and impartial. Dyslexic agnostic 06:05, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

Up for being Nominated for Admin?

Josiah,

I've been much impressed with your extensive Wikipedia contributions and willingness to tackle big tasks. I'd like to nominate you for Adminship, if you were open to accepting.—LeflymanTalk 18:04, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

Thanks!

Thanks for the Barnstar. It was totally unexpected as I didn't know they existed! I may go in and reformat the story titles, but only if I sub-edited each individual article for grammar, repetition, etc. at the same time, rather than revisiting them many times over. Of course this would be a huge undertaking, so I'll see how I feel about it in a couple of weeks. Thanks again: it's nice to feel that my efforts are appreciated.

Lost

... what's the consensus at this point? · Katefan0(scribble)/poll 00:16, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

Doctor Who pinball edits

Sorry about my edits. I just got a little carried away. But thank you. DuoDeathscyther 02 05:01, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

Sean Black

Hi Josiah, Sean was lamenting in IRC that his userpage had never been vandalized. I hated to see him suffer, that was all. So yeah, it was a joke. Babajobu 06:19, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

Congratulations!

Golden Plunger
In honor of
Josiah's Adminship,
14 February 2006

Congratulations! It's my pleasure to let you know that, consensus being reached, you are now an administrator. You should read the relevant policies and other pages linked to from the administrators' reading list before carrying out tasks like deletion, protection, banning users, and editing protected pages such as the Main Page. Most of what you do is easily reversible by other sysops, apart from page history merges and image deletion, so please be especially careful with those. You might find the new administrators' how-to guide helpful. Cheers! -- Cecropia 05:54, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

Congrats, sir! --badlydrawnjeff (WP:MEME?) 06:06, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
More congratulations! —Whouk (talk) 10:07, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
Congratulations! You deserve it! Siva1979Talk to me 12:10, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
Congratulations from me too! Mushroom (Talk) 15:55, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
Even more congratulations :-) --Latinus (talk (el:)) 16:06, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

Excellent.--Sean Black (talk) 19:35, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

Congratulations Josiah! --a.n.o.n.y.m t 20:06, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

I too wish to express my congratulations, and I hope that vandals, trolls and other general nasties don't get in your path too often. Cheers. enochlau (talk) 23:16, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

And more congratulations! I'm sure you'll use the mop and bucket well; you may not expect to use it much, but it comes in handy when you need it. Mindspillage (spill yours?)

Happy Valentines Day!

♥ Happy Valentines Day! ♥

May your days be filled with Wikilove!

- Quadell

Tom Baker

There is quite a lot of incorrect information on the net, that starts in one place and gets re-posted, even by reliable sources, until it is believed to be reliable. I find IMDB is usually the main villain - web sites used to copy its bios and misinformation spread - but luckily, most sites now copy Wikipedia instead of the IMDB - so good for us. There's a long interview here [1] where Baker talks about his religion, and doesn't even hint at being part Jewish. He mentions that his mother was anti-Semitic in his book autobiography. I think that this whole "Jewish father" thing started somewhere, maybe IMDB, and was reposted around as reliable, even ending up on his official site bio (which is not written by him). His paternal grandmother's family is quite obviously non-Jewish, with ancestors born in Scotland and surnames like "Stewart" and "Grieves". Not as clear on his paternal grandfather, but I doubt he was Jewish either. I'm 100% certain that his is just another web rumour, now squashed. Vulturell 02:44, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

Well, there's basically no way, based on that geneology, that his paternal grandmother was Jewish. Verifiability is important, so if we're in doubt, why don't we just not mention anything? We can verify that his father was of English and Scottish descent, based on that tree, so let's just leave it at that. I mentioned that the site I cited mentioned that his father was Jewish, but I said that they most likely got that info from one of the web bios, and didn't realize how unlikely it was. You know what, I'll e-mail them and ask. But for now I think it's best we just leave the info based on the family tree in. Vulturell 03:14, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
I've e-mailed the site and asked. Vulturell 03:19, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
Done. I've e-mailed the "ask Tom" section and I've e-mailed the web-master himself. Vulturell 03:41, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
I hadn't gotten any replies yet, but I just noticed something. The geneology web site lists Baker's father as having a brother named Thomas Victor Baker. This is also their father's (i.e. Tom Baker's paternal grandfather)'s exact name. European Jews pretty much never name children after living relatives - especially not after parents - this is a semi-religious, traditional custom if I am to understand it. If Baker's paternal grandfather, Thomas Victor Baker, was Jewish, there would be no way that he'd name his son with the exact name - Thomas Victor Baker - not to mention that Tom Baker himself would not be named "Tom", either. Vulturell 06:38, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
Not to butt in, but I couldn't help but notice this interesting discussion. While it's generally true that children are to be named for deceased family members, some Jewish fathers have been known to do the non-traditional-naming bit. Case in point: billionaire Edgar Bronfman, Sr. who was President of the World Jewish Congress, named one son Edgar Bronfman, Jr., and another Samuel, Jr. after his father, the founder of Seagrams. However, that does tend to be the exception to the rule. —LeflymanTalk 07:58, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

Here is the reply from his family tree web site - basically, it seems it's "well known" that his father is Jewish, but it doesn't look, again, like there's a clear source for where it came from: "yes. to the best of my knowledge and from everything i know, mr baker IS jewish on his father's side. but he was mostly raised by his catholic mother and grandmother and other assorted people from his mother's side, in mostly irish catholic neighborhoods, as his father was absent a geat deal of the time as he [john stewart] was a merchant seaman.

though there is no mention of that fact [his dad being jewish] in mr baker's autobiography, there are a great deal of other such pertinent facts left out as well.

it is possible, i suppose that his father converted just out of conveniece ... marrying into such a stong catholic family ... just never thought about that.

but his family free [in my research, anyWHO] ends abruptly with his great grandfather John. and the professional researcher i'm working with, said that, that line being jewish is probably why she can't go back futher.

his agent's email is:

hill@ehillmanagement.freeserve.co.uk

if you are wanting to reach him personally and ask him.

least it is worth a try.

hope this helps clear things up.

and should you find out something i don't know. or find out i am in error, could you please email me of that fact?

thanks.

best pattie anne" Vulturell 16:13, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

I don't trust looks either. If the Scotch-Irish Heath Ledger and the Jewish Gabriel Macht can look alike, then there's no real reason to consider someone's "looks" an evidence in anything. Anyway, please do open the discussion on Baker's talk page. But I would like to note that there is no first-hand evidence - i.e. words right out of Baker's mouth - that his father was Jewish. Vulturell 17:43, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

Keycard

Don't know him from Adam, and he could very well be a sockpuppet of you-know-who, but in the absence of a sockcheck, I'd just leave it. No big. --khaosworks (talk • contribs) 19:03, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

Evil villain laugh

Sorry, I've been desparate to find a revert war to do that. Sorry.--Keycard (talk) 08:33, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

If it ain't broke, don't fix it

Josiah, you appear to be falling into a trap that has tripped up most of us. See WP:R#Don't fix redirects that aren't broken. Thanks for all your work. Any questions, give me a tap at my talk page. Chris the speller 18:02, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

I don't know about the monsters list. I only moved Robert Holmes in order to help disambiguation, and have been adjusting dozens of articles to reflect that change; many left to fix. Images linked to redirect pages are fine, AFAIK. Disambig pages may remain linked to redirect pages, as that is different from a piped link. If I am already working on a dab page and see a link to a redirect, I will usually fix it while I am there, but I wouldn't go out of my way. Congrats on your adminship, by the way. Chris the speller 20:03, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

Torchwood grammar

Thanks for picking that up. I blame a stinking cold. —Whouk (talk) 22:41, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

Cheers. I can smell very little at the moment. I'll stop and go and get some sleep. There's probably a rule against editing while not able to concentrate properly :-) —Whouk (talk) 22:47, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

Batman Anti-hero??

There has been some controversy about batman being an anti-hero on Batman and Anti-hero. I'd like you to share your thoughts, you are allways the wise one in this kind of cases. --T-man... ""worst vandal ever"" 04:37, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

Talk:Gökçeada & Bozcaada

The proposal to move these to Imbros and Tenedos has been reopened. Septentrionalis 04:31, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

Achilles

I think I may have stepped on some of your edits while reverting vandalism. You might want to take a look, since you know better than I what you had done. Nareek 20:21, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

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