User talk:Equyl

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Hello, Equyl, and welcome to Wikipedia! I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages you might find helpful:

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I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, please see our help pages, and if you can't find what you are looking for there, please feel free to ask me on my talk page or place {{Help me}} on this page and someone will drop by to help. Again, welcome! Volten001 ^talk 11:39, 14 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Your submission at Articles for creation: Diploma mills in Switzerland (March 17)

Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed! Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reasons left by Curb Safe Charmer were:

This submission reads more like an essay than an encyclopedia article. Submissions should summarise information in secondary, reliable sources and not contain opinions or original research. Please write about the topic from a neutral point of view in an encyclopedic manner.

Thank you for your submission, but the subject of this article already exists in Wikipedia. You can find it and improve it at Diploma mill#Switzerland instead.

Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit when they have been resolved.

If you would like to continue working on the submission, go to Draft:Diploma mills in Switzerland and click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
If you now believe the draft cannot meet Wikipedia's standards or do not wish to progress it further, you may request deletion. Please go to Draft:Diploma mills in Switzerland, click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window, add "{{Db-g7}}" at the top of the draft text and click the blue "publish changes" button to save this edit.
If you do not make any further changes to your draft, in 6 months, it will be considered abandoned and may be deleted.
If you need any assistance, or have experienced any untoward behavior associated with this submission, you can ask for help at the Articles for creation help desk, on the reviewer's talk page or use Wikipedia's real-time chat help from experienced editors.

Curb Safe Charmer (talk) 16:29, 17 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, Equyl! Having an article declined at Articles for Creation can be disappointing. If you are wondering why your article submission was declined, please post a question at the Articles for creation help desk. If you have any other questions about your editing experience, we'd love to help you at the Teahouse, a friendly space on Wikipedia where experienced editors lend a hand to help new editors like yourself! See you there! Curb Safe Charmer (talk) 16:29, 17 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

April 2022

Warnings were removed as the editor has engaged in discussion in good faith. Cheers! SunDawn talk 11:48, 1 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Geneva Business School

@Equyl: The changes you made in Geneva Business School is not following the rules of Wikipedia, namely the use of original research WP:OR. In the source provided, there is no mention of GBS being classified as a diploma mill. It is not allowed to synthesize materials, as contents on Wikipedia have to be verifiable, per WP:V. Please do not change the content without sourcing, thank you! SunDawn talk 06:06, 1 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

It is a higher education business with no official state recognition which follows the guidelines from the Europen body organization term Enic-naric an organization that is well recognized. Did you read the page that was linked? and the source?.Just exactly what is your game here? Equyl (talk) 06:14, 1 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The source didn't say anything about GBS. Analyzing the source material to reach a conclusion is not allowed per WP:NOR. At this moment, analysis is required to determine that GBS is a diploma mill. If personal analysis and synthesis is required, is is WP:OR and not allowed on the article. There is no game for me. Thank you and have a good day. SunDawn talk 06:25, 1 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Please stop your disruptive editing. If you continue to violate Wikipedia's no original research policy by adding your personal analysis or synthesis into articles, as you did at Geneva School of Business and Economics, you may be blocked from editing. SunDawn talk 06:10, 1 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I will add the list for State approved Swiss Universities,Schools, on top of the enic-naric link which classifie what is an unaccredited higher education institution by defenition.

https://studyprogrammes.ch/en

https://akkreditierungsrat.ch/akkreditierungsentscheide/institutionelle-akkreditierung/

https://www.swissuniversities.ch/themen/studium/anerkannte-oder-akkreditierte-schweizer-hochschulen

..these are official Swiss sites that show no records for GBS and other schools you edited out. If be so il write a new page covering these things in one page to call up on them on other pages as source. Equyl (talk) 06:53, 1 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I want you to understand just about what we are talking about here, and how much it carries a weight, to understand my point of view;

a) People who enroll in these institutions waste their time,money plus the degrees that you cant list in your CV/Resume cause it is not accredited. After that experience these people are left traumatized if they come to the shocking realization that they wasted all of that. Those who decided to continue on until they get caught i cant even begin to think how it can be stressful always to worry if someone will eventually find out and call them out. This was a blow back when one of the big diploma mills was uncovered ; people who work/ed for a lot of these diploma mills blackmail post graduates to report them to their employer if they do not pay them summ of money.

b) People who work there in most case scenarios are underpaid and the owners prey on recruiting foreigners who are inexperienced with the laws in the country they will teach. Or to do the research on what their employer is actually up to. So this becomes a problem if you have people with the intention to educate others are underpaid, end up with hectic work schedules, which lead to burnout. Especially if we are talking in this case about Switzerland

c) Given with the influx of degrees on the market from diploma mills you end up with people who are not properly educated and prepared for the task ahead. Effectively making the field lose in it's value. What about all of those people who did the legit way of studying and grinding when it comes to education ? Making this whole thing undervaluing all of those people accomplishments.

..these are my talking points when it comes to unacreddited HEI, and if you can understand and possibly help out it would be greatly appreciated. Equyl (talk) 07:13, 1 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, I fully understands your concerns, but the rule of WP:NOR is still need to be upheld. I have done research as well, and while factually it is not recognized by the Swiss government, I can't place it on the article as it has no sourcing. However, I found this that stated that As a result, in 2019, the Swiss federal authorities considered Geneva Business School eligible to enter the process for the Swiss Institutional Accreditation. This pathway has only recently been made available to Swiss private schools, and the full process takes at least two years to complete. We can write is down as The school has just began its process for the Swiss Institutional Accreditation in 2019. What do you think? SunDawn talk 11:47, 1 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for replaying. Yes they submited their request on 23.September of 2019 and every school that submited it since then was granted or did not pass it here is the news section from the AAQ(the only accreditation that is important) https://aaq.ch/en/category/news-en/ check the schools in question and when they sumbited their request;

Universität Bern accredited

HEP BEJUNE accredited

ETH Zürich accredited

Swiss Business School GmbH accredited

..and yes the two years passed and they did not submit to a new process. I would also ask why remove from the other schools? something and what is the problem word here? diploma mill, you can call these schools Unaccredited Higher education institutions and it is factually correct. Equyl (talk) 13:24, 1 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Hello! Again, the problem is that there is no sourcing for them as diploma mills. Based on the sources, we can reliably show that they have only submitted their application in 2019, but to say that they are diploma mills are synthesis and is not allowed on the Wikipedia. The sources you provided showed that Importantly. this does not mean that all such institutions pursue fraudulent ends. There is a distinct group of organisations, that operate as Diploma Mills. Such organisations that claim fraudulently to be recognised awarding bodies... showing that an institution that are not recognized may not be diploma mills.

I removed other schools for similar reasoning - that none of the sources are showing that they are diploma mills.

As for GBS, the only sources we can provide is that they attempted to be accredited by Swiss Institutional Accreditation in 2019, but their failure to be accredited today is original research, as none of the the sources showed their failure. SunDawn talk 14:27, 1 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

So in essence the problem word is Diploma mill, but every school on the list is unaccredited Higher education institution. Which also aligns with the definition on Enic-naric page, a body of the EU for these things. More so providing source material with Switzerlands list of Universities/Schools that show they are not on lists for accredited organization pretty much confirm they are unaccredited. I am just following here common sense, on top of it providing a legit link to a EU organization with the clear definition on what is what.

Glad we cleared the candidation process. Equyl (talk) 14:41, 1 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The issue is that we need synthesis to determine GBS as a diploma mill. If it requires synthesis, it is WP:OR and it is not allowed. Showing the list where they are not listed is original research as well, as research is required. The best approach I can see is that we edit in the fact that they attempted to be accredited in 2019. Thanks. SunDawn talk 06:01, 2 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Can i make a page of unrecognized higher education institutions in switzerland? with the pages of listed Recognized Institutions in Switzerland on their own Ministry webpage as source? And list the Enic-naric description as what are unaccredited HEI?

I also took liberty and sent an email to the sistersite of AAQ(you cant contact them directly) email SBFI and asked them about the candidacy, she said no such request was ever submited by GBS. And this is what i am trying to point out, for alot of these Business schools in Switzerland that are unacreddited i've sent email to state representitves asking them about them. I double checked my information since i do not trust one bit these schools.

I mean GBS says they are listed on Coursera;

https://www.coursera.org/search?query=Geneva%20Business%20School& ..their is no program listed on the site. Equyl (talk) 06:37, 2 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

While technically you can create an article in Wikipedia about Unrecognized higher education institutions in Switzerland I don't think it will pass WP:GNG to stand as a standalone article. Please also see WP:LISTV on how lists of organizations could not be used to bypass the usual hurdles such as WP:OR and WP:V. I fully understand your concerns regarding GBS, but as the "fact" is not verifiable, it can't be placed on the article. For the time being, in my opinion, it is better just to point out that the school just started their accreditation process in 2019, as it is verifiable and not original research. Thank you and have a good day. SunDawn talk 10:25, 2 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Notice of No Original Research Noticeboard discussion

There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:No original research/Noticeboard regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. The thread is Input requested at List of unaccredited higher education institutions in Switzerland. Thank you. ✠ SunDawn ✠ (contact) 15:50, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Concern regarding Draft:Diploma mills in Switzerland

Hello, Equyl. This is a bot-delivered message letting you know that Draft:Diploma mills in Switzerland, a page you created, has not been edited in at least 5 months. Drafts that have not been edited for six months may be deleted, so if you wish to retain the page, please edit it again or request that it be moved to your userspace.

If the page has already been deleted, you can request it be undeleted so you can continue working on it.

Thank you for your submission to Wikipedia. FireflyBot (talk) 21:02, 19 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Your draft article, Draft:Diploma mills in Switzerland

Hello, Equyl. It has been over six months since you last edited the Articles for Creation submission or Draft page you started, "Diploma mills in Switzerland".

In accordance with our policy that Wikipedia is not for the indefinite hosting of material deemed unsuitable for the encyclopedia mainspace, the draft has been deleted. If you plan on working on it further and you wish to retrieve it, you can request its undeletion. An administrator will, in most cases, restore the submission so you can continue to work on it.

Thanks for your submission to Wikipedia, and happy editing. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 20:51, 19 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]