Template talk:Serena Williams

Tiny little icons

Tiny little trophy icons have no place in a data list like this template. They are hard to see and add nothing to the titles won. If they keep getting added I will bring it to WikiProject Tennis so more eyes can help with this discussion. Fyunck(click) (talk) 18:43, 8 September 2021 (UTC)

@Fyunck(click): Actually, I have three issues with your edits before bringing it to the Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard#Template:Serena Williams. This discussion on a talk page is a formal requirement. So, here are things that make this one — and all the other templates — less accessible in many cases because of your edits:

1. Templates are needed to be added to all the main tournament draws and you keep deleting them. It seems like you don't value the meaning of the WP:TEMPLATE as a navigational tool at all.
2. Location (e. g. Doha) vs official name (Qatar Open) consistency for WTA-1000 tournaments. Grand Slams are different from the other tournaments that's why they're listed as Opens, and Wimbledon is different from them. That's the reason why it's listed like that. Usability for new Wikipedia readers is my priority because tennis is not the easiest sport for casual sports fans. You're just destroying all of my efforts to support the game I love the only way I can.
3. The importance of icons for main singles trophies in tennis (4 Slams, Finals, BJK Cup) because the only icon for Olympics is misleading for Wikipedia readers. You can't just delete the medals icons to fix the issue because it makes the whole understanding of tennis even more complicated for all the article readers. Most people in the world — 90% — are visuals, they get the difference between the GSs by the look of titles. It's not just a decoration. Plus, these icons are clickable. Moreover, the template is good for print and it looks a lot better in print even with all the tiny icons. I've tested it.Revolynka (talk) 10:46, 9 September 2021 (UTC)

Some templates are required at main tournament draws... we don't simply create hundreds and plop them at the bottom of every draw. There needs to be a really good reason and for tennis articles it needs to be looked at by the Wikipedia Tennis Project. You seem to think navigation templates are required... they are not. They don't get used by loose association. They would replace use in the "see also" section. And per Template for Navigation..."The use of navigation templates is neither required nor prohibited for any article. Whether to include navboxes, and which to include, is often suggested by WikiProjects"... So while you might include Venus Williams template on Serena Williams article, it could just as easily be placed under "see also." Location is almost always frowned upon by Wikipedia Tennis Project. Our guideline charts are quite specific especially if the column is for the tournament. Tournament does not equal location. The major and 1000s are handled the same way. US Open and Miami Open and Bucharest Open. And yes those symbols are decorative and are frowned upon by ALL of wikipedia. I can't tell you the amount of times outside administrators have told us to eliminate icons.

It seems I discussed this with another "retired" editor on Wikipedia who was only doing templates... User:Tintin-tintine and their IP clones 217.107.124.99, and 213.24.134.236. They were also "retired" and adding heaps of unrelated tennis templates. I assume you are unrelated? Fyunck(click) (talk) 19:06, 9 September 2021 (UTC)

@Fyunck(click): Ok, I want to tell you the reasons why "outside administrators have told us to eliminate icons". The whole point of creating templates wasn't educational. It was before the introduction of not very user-friendly surfaces & descriptions by my now-retired colleague User:Tintin-tintine who has introduced me to Wikipedia last year. They have been replaced by H-C-G-T icons by me.

Trophies-icons used to be just decorative before, now they present the big picture of tennis "for dummies'. They serve a completely different purpose. It's crystal clear, you either remove all the medals icons because they are misleading in tennis templates (Gold medal is not the most important thing which is NOT OBVIOUS for casual sports fans) or leave the Slams/BJK icons. I don't mind the deletion of trophies/medals but the template now is suitable for printing, so they look better on paper. Children have tennis icons, they study their careers & cherish their major trophies.

Zero WTA titles don't mean the person like Emma Raducanu has zero titles at all, it is also not understood by the majority of tennis newbies. Your reasons for deleting them are base on ancient history: tennis templates with only GSs & Masters (Big-3 & Andy Murray templates). Moscow Open is another tournament that didn't exist as WTA-1000/Premier-5/Tier-I (but you still listed it like that which just shows you're out of knowledge of women's recent tennis history — which is misleading for Wikipedia readers). Now I've added description and non-clickable icons for surfaces. Please, discuss it wherever you want, Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard#Template:Serena Williams or Tennis Project before removing them just because you think they'll be removed by the outside administrators. Revolynka (talk) 12:23, 10 September 2021 (UTC)

As already said, this is a Wikipedia Tennis Project issue which you should discuss there. I have. Those icons bring nothing to the template and are distracting. I don't care about printing in a kids book report. And I don't trust that you aren't a clone of Tin-tin. Of course any dispute resolution would look into that and verify it beyond doubt. Word of warning... there is not much worse at wikipedia than editing with clone identities. Usual squabbles are 24-48 hours of blocking. Not so with puppets of each other. It's often straight to indefinite blocks. Fyunck(click) (talk) 18:29, 10 September 2021 (UTC)