Template talk:List of New York City Subway services/graphical timeline

Source of info

Giving credit where it is due, the table is mostly based on work by SPUI, I just recreated it using EasyTimeline. Additional dates are from http://www.nycsubway.org/faq/subway-markers.html. If there is any problems with this, and are not sure how EasyTimeline works, feel free to message me.--Svgalbertian (talk) 03:41, 14 February 2011 (UTC)

@Svgalbertian: Hope you or someone else knowledgeable would be able to correct the data.

I was trying to prepare an accessible version of this data, and discovered overlapping dates in the data. For example, according to the timeline data, the IRT 1 supposedly has an orange logo from January 1, 1967, until the end of 1979, but has an red logo from the beginning of 1979, meaning there's a whole year the logo is two colors, orange and red. I'm guessing EasyTimeline picks or writes one color over the other, but it doesn't work very well as accessible text data.

1 (New York City Subway service) shows an orange bullet as "The bullet used from November 1967 to June 1979" and a red bullet as "The current bullet used since June 1979", but doesn't give a specific date. I suspect in real life both colors were on display at the same time as roll signs were converted car by car. Presumably, though, there would be an official cutover date where the last day of orange would be one day before the first day of red, not a year of overlap.

Some other routes have specific dates, such as the QB becoming the Q on May 5, 1985, so I'm guessing the actual dates are known by someone or can be found somewhere.

Anyway, hope the data can be corrected so I can produce a durable accessible version. I plan to post the accessible version that reflects the current chart data so at least an accessible version is available, just in case it takes a while to correct the data.

Thisisnotatest (talk) 05:25, 3 October 2024 (UTC)

Here is the original article I used:

https://web.archive.org/web/20120614234116/http://www.nycsubway.org/faq/subway-markers.html

I guess I used January 1 because precise dates were not available. Svgalbertian (talk) 13:01, 3 October 2024 (UTC)

1967 Black colors (and others)

The 'black' on the 1967 Vignelli/Noorda/Unimark color scheme for the subway lines (5, B, LL, QJ/J and SS Lenox Shuttle pre-1968), carried over to the 1979 color scheme (initially for the S shuttles, before the % grey formula for that and L was ushered in), was not PMS Black as

value:rgb(0.16471,0.14902,0.13725)

but rather PMS Process Black as

value:rgb(0.11765,0.11765,0.11765)

This was confirmed in a photo of a paper of PMS colors associated with certain subway line colors in an obituary of Michael Hertz who had a hand in the design of the map which ushered in the 1979 color scheme:

https://secondavenuesagas.com/2020/03/06/influential-subway-map-designer-michael-hertz-passes-away-at-87/

(if Process Black was recommended in 1979, it would also have been in 1967)

As early as 1972, PMS 116 U would be used to print the yellow routes (then 6 and N), and PMS 401:

value:rgb(0.71373,0.69412,0.66275)

was used on an alternating basis with the black for the black colored routes, in cases where any of the routes were on a black background.

In addition, having the second Vignelli map, it would appear that PMS 311 was used for the light blue lines (3, 8, E, M, NX and SS 42nd Street Shuttle pre-1968):

value:rgb(0.04706,0.77647,0.87059)

(this detail is important as the shade of blue on the JFK Express which used PMS 312 was a shade darker than those light-blue routes)

and PMS 355 for the green routes (CC, GG, RR, SS; plus the proposed but never placed in service MM Sixth-Myrtle Avenue line):

value:rgb(0.00000,0.60784,0.22745)

as they also were on the 1967-70 maps.

I've noticed a confusion between 354 and 355 over the years in terms of printing subway maps; as the 1979 map was printed on uncoated stock, they used PMS 116 U for N, QB, RR, PMS 354 U for 4, 5 and 6, and PMS 375 U for GG - three colors varied from what John Tauranac recommended and what was on that pic referred to in the Hertz obituary. (I have Pantone swatches of the same vintage as these maps, so I know whereof I speak.)

‒ Wbwn (talk) 18:46, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

In addition, it would appear that at the onset of the JFK Express, from 1978 to the 1979 color change, it would appear to have been PMS Process Blue -

value:rgb(0.00000,0.53333,0.80734)

as from pictures I've seen, plus my own memory, the initial roll signs with this service were along the lines of that shade of blue. Definitely darker than the PMS 312 of the "light blue" a.k.a. "turquoise" services from 1967‒79, and would be applied to the JFK Express after 1979. ‒Wbwn (talk) 18:37, 7 August 2024 (UTC)

Accessibility dispute

The graphic is not accessible to blind people and is likely unpleasant to use on mobile.

There is too much information in this graphic to put it in alt text. It would be best to add a link below the image to go to content containing the same information as a text table. I don't know whether such a table already exists on Wikipedia; if it is, it could be linked to. If it isn't, it would need to be created. Then the alt text for this graphic would be "Graphic list; for accessible version use link below."

It looks like New York City Subway nomenclature would be a good candidate page to adapt to include this information, but it does not have all of the information. Since it has some of the information, I will link to it from this template. It's not nice to send visitors to multiple places to get accessible info. I know sometimes it can't be helped, but here it seems doable.

Actually, it looks like I may be able to reconstruct the data from the chart code. Will attempt and remove the accessibility dispute if I'm successful.

Thisisnotatest (talk) 06:02, 2 October 2024 (UTC)