Template:Did you know nominations/Apple worker organizations
- The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by Theleekycauldron (talk) 22:56, 5 October 2021 (UTC)
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Apple worker organizations
- ... that ahead of the iPhone 4S launch, Italian Apple retail store workers in Rome went on strike, featuring the slogan "Strike Different", a wordplay on Apple's "Think Different"? Source: Cult of Mac
- Reviewed: Under 5 DYK nominations so not applicable
Created by Shushugah (talk). Self-nominated at 11:45, 6 September 2021 (UTC).
- I have some concerns about this article that are more fundamental than the issues normally brought up at DYK. Despite the title of the article, the article content is a grab-bag of tangentially-related information. The lead does not mention worker organizations: it gives general information about Apple Inc. We get a list of incidents of industrial action, some of which mention unions and some don't. Space is given to #AppleToo which is a hashtag, not an organization. The China section mentions Apple contracting the Fair Labour Association. This doesn't make the Fair Labour Association an Apple worker organization, and it's hard to say what about the article topic is being said by that section.
- So first, this needs work to become an article about what it purports to be about. Lots of suitable sources have been assembled and cited inline correctly, and this itself is very good work. The observations about how many workers Apple employs, that strikes occurred in different countries, and that Apple employees spoke out on social media could be part of an article about worker organizations, but they need text gluing them together and showing the reader how they relate to the topic.
- I have lesser, but still relevant, concerns about the writing. In the China section, the tense suddenly changes for some reason. "successfully distances itself from direct responsibility" doesn't sound like neutral phrasing. In the Brazil section, "the local IndustriALL affiliate Brazilian Metalworkers Union was already well prepared" comes out of nowhere. The article needs to describe what the issue was, what the unions were trying to achieve, and then what the outcome was.
- The hook uses the term "general strike". It's not clear why "general strike" is used rather than "strike". A "general strike" would imply that the workers' grievance was not against Apple retail stores in particular but that the strike was part of a wider regional or national action. If that's the case, why is it a significant fact about Apple worker organisations? This is an example of the narrative that needs to be filled in for the reader. Are you prepared to add this sort of additional content? MartinPoulter (talk) 15:17, 8 September 2021 (UTC)
- PS I've just noticed that you also were a main contributor to IBM worker organization, and that's an example of what this new article could work towards. The topic of the article is introduced in the first sentence, then the lead expands on the overall context, then individual sections consider aspects of the topic in different countries. More like this please! MartinPoulter (talk) 15:32, 8 September 2021 (UTC)
- MartinPoulter Thank you Martin for your extensive feedback. The hook's language uses the term strike. Since the wikilink strike leads to a disambiguation page, I selected a labor related one. Strike action would be more precise than general strike, since it is specific to this Apple store/employer in this case and not more broadly, so I will change that. Regarding your other feedback, I will edit it down for tone/neutral voice. The China section needs a complete rewrite/addition, including about recent independent Foxconn elections at Apple facilities, given that it is also the largest workforce location. I want to avoid making any WP:SYNTH about the relations between each of these actions/strikes. In a similar case, I created Police union, where a fork was created Police unions in the United States, but generally absent in depth coverage in one context, I prefer to keep it all under one article. Covering worker organisations in a large multinational company (unions and other) may be the most challenging endeavour yet, but I think there is ample coverage/sourcing in most cases. I don't quite know how to describe #AppleToo, but it's more than a hashtag, with some publicly associated workers behind it according to several linked articles. I think Italy/the hook is generally done (asides from changing strike target to strike action and I am prepared/will continue working on the other points you have mentioned. I could imagine expanding/renaming the article to Apple labour issues... allegations of Uighur labour and the like are labour issues, but not exactly examples of worker organizations. No one said building the WP:largest encyclopedia was going to be easy 😅 📲 ~ Shushugah (he/him • talk) 15:38, 8 September 2021 (UTC)
- Thanks for the quick reply. DYK isn't just a check on the hook - which is good! - but a check that there are no major problems with the whole article before it's linked from the front page. Hence it's worth spending time on the fundamental issues of the article's scope and title before it passes DYK. I appreciate the sources don't fit neatly together the way we Wikipedia authors wish they did, and gathering info about the many dimensions of this issue is a lot of work. I want to encourage people to write about labour organization issues and, like I say, you've done good work on this elsewhere, but this article needs serious work before it's ready. MartinPoulter (talk) 16:18, 8 September 2021 (UTC)
- MartinPoulter I have added an introductory lede, created a section on Foxconn Trade Union in China and removed non neutral language in Brasil. Do you have a preference timeline wise for a re-review? I was thinking of letting it sit for a few more days, re-reading/seeing if others want to make edits. It's very much a work in progress article. Will continue reading/searching broader analysis about Apple's union free environment in its formal employee workforce, and reliance on labour in limited collective bargaining states (India, Brasil are two exceptions) ~ Shushugah (he/him • talk) 13:51, 9 September 2021 (UTC)
- Shushugah Already moving in a very good direction. What an improvement to the China section! Happy to return to this next week to give you and others more opportunity to improve it. MartinPoulter (talk) 15:17, 9 September 2021 (UTC)
- @Shushugah and MartinPoulter, how are we doing on this? theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (they/them) 21:24, 29 September 2021 (UTC)
- Theleekycauldron and Martin Poulter, the article itself I believe is in a ready state. I will continue to add more about India, and other Chinese manufacturers like Wistron/Pegatron. An open question for me is whether the existing DYK blurb is sufficiently interesting, or if we should use another one, for example the fact that Foxconn Trade Union is the largest trade union in the world, albeit dominated by management? ~ 🦝 Shushugah (he/him • talk) 08:09, 30 September 2021 (UTC)
- @Shushugah and MartinPoulter, how are we doing on this? theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (they/them) 21:24, 29 September 2021 (UTC)
- Shushugah Already moving in a very good direction. What an improvement to the China section! Happy to return to this next week to give you and others more opportunity to improve it. MartinPoulter (talk) 15:17, 9 September 2021 (UTC)
- MartinPoulter I have added an introductory lede, created a section on Foxconn Trade Union in China and removed non neutral language in Brasil. Do you have a preference timeline wise for a re-review? I was thinking of letting it sit for a few more days, re-reading/seeing if others want to make edits. It's very much a work in progress article. Will continue reading/searching broader analysis about Apple's union free environment in its formal employee workforce, and reliance on labour in limited collective bargaining states (India, Brasil are two exceptions) ~ Shushugah (he/him • talk) 13:51, 9 September 2021 (UTC)
- Thanks for the quick reply. DYK isn't just a check on the hook - which is good! - but a check that there are no major problems with the whole article before it's linked from the front page. Hence it's worth spending time on the fundamental issues of the article's scope and title before it passes DYK. I appreciate the sources don't fit neatly together the way we Wikipedia authors wish they did, and gathering info about the many dimensions of this issue is a lot of work. I want to encourage people to write about labour organization issues and, like I say, you've done good work on this elsewhere, but this article needs serious work before it's ready. MartinPoulter (talk) 16:18, 8 September 2021 (UTC)
- MartinPoulter Thank you Martin for your extensive feedback. The hook's language uses the term strike. Since the wikilink strike leads to a disambiguation page, I selected a labor related one. Strike action would be more precise than general strike, since it is specific to this Apple store/employer in this case and not more broadly, so I will change that. Regarding your other feedback, I will edit it down for tone/neutral voice. The China section needs a complete rewrite/addition, including about recent independent Foxconn elections at Apple facilities, given that it is also the largest workforce location. I want to avoid making any WP:SYNTH about the relations between each of these actions/strikes. In a similar case, I created Police union, where a fork was created Police unions in the United States, but generally absent in depth coverage in one context, I prefer to keep it all under one article. Covering worker organisations in a large multinational company (unions and other) may be the most challenging endeavour yet, but I think there is ample coverage/sourcing in most cases. I don't quite know how to describe #AppleToo, but it's more than a hashtag, with some publicly associated workers behind it according to several linked articles. I think Italy/the hook is generally done (asides from changing strike target to strike action and I am prepared/will continue working on the other points you have mentioned. I could imagine expanding/renaming the article to Apple labour issues... allegations of Uighur labour and the like are labour issues, but not exactly examples of worker organizations. No one said building the WP:largest encyclopedia was going to be easy 😅 📲 ~ Shushugah (he/him • talk) 15:38, 8 September 2021 (UTC)
- (unindent) I think the original hook is fine. The article is just about ready. If anything, it's not more China content it needs but it would be useful to expand the short section about Italy. One query: under "Apple Retail Workers Union" you have "which was characterized as union busting". Characterised by whom? I don't see this in the given source. MartinPoulter (talk) 09:36, 30 September 2021 (UTC)
- My main areas of concern have been addressed. It would be nice if the really short sections of the article were expanded, but this is not a barrier to DYK. This article is now good to go.
MartinPoulter (talk) 11:22, 5 October 2021 (UTC)
- My main areas of concern have been addressed. It would be nice if the really short sections of the article were expanded, but this is not a barrier to DYK. This article is now good to go.
