Talk:Zona Norte, Tijuana

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This article was nominated for deletion on June 18, 2007. The result of the discussion was keep.

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Untitled

this article doesn't cite its sources. where are the statistics coming from? needs to be rewritten.

PS some of the content here is inappropriate...sounds more like a guide to tijuana's local prostitution hotspots than a genuine encyclopedic entry. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.171.149.57 (talk • contribs)

I agree, the only source was from the Spanish Wikipedia article, the source there is a blog, which is not a reputable source. I have removed most of the content. -FateClub 17:52, 31 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Why was the paraditas movie in the IMDB removed?

I added the information coming from the San Diego Youth & Community Services. they concur with what the blog says, but more credible.

"Prostitution is permitted in Tijuana's North Zone. Legal prostitution within the city requires sex workers to obtain a permit and be subjected to monthly health checkups. [1] Brothels in Tijuana must also conform to certain health regulations, such as standards of cleanliness, fixed operating hours and be placed a regulated distance from schools or day-care centers.[2]"

Those two sentences are true.

"Prostitutes who work in these approved brothels are referred to as paraditas."

This sentence is inaccurate. The Paraditas are more like street prostitutes, and they work in the hotels or "vecindades" (a bunch of rooms) that are not actually brothels. The brothels, also known as "congales" (There are subtle differences between brothels, and the ones that have music, are known as Congales) are the Adelita Bar, Chicago Club and Tropical Bar. There are copyright free pictures of all the main brothels in WikiMedia, and many articles that can confirm that the AB and the CC are the most popular... In the Spanish article and the blog that it's based, it distinguishes between Bar Girls and Paraditas.

"Many of the paraditas are single mothers who have turned to prostitution in order to support their families, and often end up in Tijuana following a failed attempt to cross into the United States"

This sentence is accurate, most are single mothers, but the problem of paradita's pimping was not mentioned at all. There are a lot of references in the SD Youth document and others...

"In addition to established brothels, there are prostitutes who roam the streets and are referred to as "street walkers". These street walkers are often illegal prostitutes who do not have permits, and accept drugs such as heroin or crack as payment for services. Many of these prostitutes are women from southern California seeking a more permissive environment for their trade."

There are references as well about the American Girls and the reverse immigration... They do walk around, as opposed to the paraditas that stand in one place. During the study that I did that included surveys and deep interviews, the reasons mentioned in the blog were given by the American Girls...

Discussion from the AfD page

Note: The following is transcluded from Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Zona Norte. I am moving it here for the sake of discussion. It largely repeats some of the information from above.

Hello Arkyan,

I read the article and it's a good start. There are some inaccuracies though. I would correct them but I keep getting the article deleted whenever I write something... I probably need to learn how to write with references...

Any way here is the list of comments:

"Prostitution is permitted in Tijuana's North Zone. Legal prostitution within the city requires sex workers to obtain a permit and be subjected to monthly health checkups. [1] Brothels in Tijuana must also conform to certain health regulations, such as standards of cleanliness, fixed operating hours and be placed a regulated distance from schools or day-care centers.[2]"

Those two sentences are true.

"Prostitutes who work in these approved brothels are referred to as paraditas."

This sentence is inaccurate. The Paraditas are more like street prostitutes, and they work in the hotels or "vecindades" (a bunch of rooms) that are not actually brothels. The brothels, also known as "congales" (There are subtle differences between brothels, and the ones that have music, are known as Congales) are the Adelita Bar, Chicago Club and Tropical Bar. There are copyright free pictures of all the main brothels in WikiMedia, and many articles that can confirm that the AB and the CC are the most popular... In the Spanish article and the blog that it's based, it distinguishes between Bar Girls and Paraditas.

"Many of the paraditas are single mothers who have turned to prostitution in order to support their families, and often end up in Tijuana following a failed attempt to cross into the United States"

This sentence is accurate, most are single mothers, but the problem of paradita's pimping was not mentioned at all. There are a lot of references in the SD Youth document and others...

"In addition to established brothels, there are prostitutes who roam the streets and are referred to as "street walkers". These street walkers are often illegal prostitutes who do not have permits, and accept drugs such as heroin or crack as payment for services. Many of these prostitutes are women from southern California seeking a more permissive environment for their trade."

There are references as well about the American Girls and the reverse immigration... They do walk around, as opposed to the paraditas that stand in one place. During the study that I did that included surveys and deep interviews, the reasons mentioned in the blog were given by the American Girls...

The paragraph about the child prostitutes was accurate, it coincides with what the child prostitutes told me about their chenchos, and the offers they were given to go work in Vegas

The drugs section is good, although I think it would be worth expanding it with the "crystal ballon" trade in the narcostores, and the Zacaz Bar and grill it's also worth mentioning...

Here are some references to the Zacazonapar bar.

http://www.revistareplicante.com/1/Cuadernos/LMancilla1.html http://www.ungravity.org/corridos/htm/situacion.htm http://experienciastj.blogspot.com/2007/06/drogas-en-la-zona-norte.html

The picture in the last one can be used freely.

Thanks for doing this, La Zona Norte has a lot of problems and one way to help is by providing accurate information.

Please remember to sign all comments with a ~~~~ after the comment so we all know who is saying what, it gets a little confusing when there is discussion without signatures!

Anyway as far as the information above goes. Part of the problem with using either the Spanish Wikipedia or the blog as a source is that neither one qualifies as a reliable source per our guidelines. The information I put in the article thus far is what I could determine and verify from the sources that were available to me (the ones sited in the article). By all means, if there are inaccuracies or additional information to put in this article then do so, but please be certain that we have a good, reliable source to use to verify the information. I could not find any information in reliable sources to seperate out the paraditas and the bar girls, which is why I haven't made that distinction in the article.

Do you have links to the images of the brothels on Wikimedia space? It'd be great if we could include a few in the article.

Thanks! Arkyan  ^(talk) 22:10, 22 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Here are the links, I took the three last pictures on Sat 16 June 2007, and of course are free to use. Hopefully I will get my study peer reviewed one day to make it verifiable information:

Adelita Bar
Chicago Club
Tropical Bar

ChicoSabio 00:25, 23 June 2007 (UTC) ChicoSabio[reply]

Sourcing

This article was nominated for deletion a while back due in large part to a lack of good referencing. With the help of some concerned editors I was able to rewrite this article incorporating several sources and keeping this article from deletion.

Since then an editor has seen fit to massively rewrite this article, removing large sections that were adequately sourced and adding in fluffy language in an attempt to downplay certain undesirable facts. These facts are easily supported by verifiable and trustworthy sources. Attempts to put a friendlier face on the issue by injecting personal observation.

Please refrain from removing sourced information or adding other information based on personal observation to this article, otherwise we are going to end up right back where we started. The addition or clarification of existing materials with reliable attribution are welcomed. Arkyan  ^(talk) 18:10, 10 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: page moved. I note this brings the name into line with Agua Caliente, Tijuana and Boy's Town, Nuevo Laredo, both also in Mexico. Andrewa (talk) 02:25, 4 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Zona Norte (Tijuana) → Zona Norte, Tijuana – Standard for neighborhood articles to have the name of neighborhood, then a comma, then name of city --Relisted. Armbrust ^{The Homunculus} 13:41, 26 June 2014 (UTC) Keizers (talk) 18:05, 19 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Support per nom Red Slash 00:49, 27 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.