Talk:Somali Civil War (2009–present)

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Somali Civil War (2009–present) article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Archives: 1

WARNING: ACTIVE COMMUNITY SANCTIONS

The article Somali Civil War (2009–present), along with other pages relating to the Syrian Civil War and ISIL, is designated by the community as a contentious topic. The current restrictions are:

Limit of one revert in 24 hours: This article is under WP:1RR (one revert per editor per article per 24-hour period)

Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be sanctioned.

Remedy instructions and exemptions

Enforcement procedures:

Violations of any restrictions (excluding 1RR/reverting violations) and other conduct issues should be reported to the administrators' incidents noticeboard. Violations of revert restrictions should be reported to the administrators' edit warring noticeboard.
Editors who violate any listed restrictions may be blocked by any uninvolved administrator, even on a first offense.
An editor must be aware before they can be sanctioned.

With respect to any reverting restrictions:

Edits made solely to enforce any clearly established consensus are exempt from all edit-warring restrictions. In order to be considered "clearly established" the consensus must be proven by prior talk-page discussion.
Edits made which remove or otherwise change any material placed by clearly established consensus, without first obtaining consensus to do so, may be treated in the same manner as clear vandalism.
Clear vandalism of any origin may be reverted without restriction.
Reverts of edits made by anonymous (IP) editors that are not vandalism are exempt from the 1RR but are subject to the usual rules on edit warring. If you are in doubt, contact an administrator for assistance.

If you are unsure if your edit is appropriate, discuss it here on this talk page first. Remember: When in doubt, don't revert!

Warning: active arbitration remedies

The contentious topics procedure applies to this article. This article is related to the Horn of Africa (defined as including Ethiopia, Somalia, Eritrea, Djibouti, and adjoining areas if involved in related disputes), which is a contentious topic. Furthermore, the following rules apply when editing this article:

You must be logged-in to an autoconfirmed or confirmed account (usually granted automatically to accounts with 10 edits and an age of 4 days)

Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page.

A news item involving Somali Civil War (2009–present) was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the In the news section on 21 June 2009.

Wikipedia

Africa: Burundi / Djibouti / Ethiopia / Kenya / Sierra Leone / Ghana / Uganda Top‑importance

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Africa, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Africa on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.AfricaWikipedia:WikiProject AfricaTemplate:WikiProject AfricaAfrica articles

Top

This article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale.

Associated task forces:
/
	Burundi portal This article is supported by WikiProject Burundi.
	This article is supported by WikiProject Djibouti.
	Ethiopia portal This article is supported by WikiProject Ethiopia.
	Kenya portal This article is supported by WikiProject Kenya.
	Sierra Leone portal This article is supported by WikiProject Sierra Leone.
	This article is supported by WikiProject Ghana.
	Uganda portal This article is supported by WikiProject Uganda.

Crime and Criminal Biography: Organized crime Mid‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Crime and Criminal Biography articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Crime and Criminal BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject Crime and Criminal BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Crime and Criminal BiographyCrime-related articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article is supported by the Organized crime task force (assessed as Mid-importance).

International relations Mid‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject International relations, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of International relations on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.International relationsWikipedia:WikiProject International relationsTemplate:WikiProject International relationsInternational relations articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Islam: Islam and Controversy / Salaf / Sunni Islam Mid‑importance

	Islam portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Islam, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Islam-related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.IslamWikipedia:WikiProject IslamTemplate:WikiProject IslamIslam-related articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article is supported by the Islam and Controversy task force.
	This article is supported by the Salaf task force.
	This article is supported by the Sunni Islam task force.

Military history: African / British / European / North America / United States / Post-Cold War

This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.Military historyWikipedia:WikiProject Military historyTemplate:WikiProject Military historymilitary history articles

This article has been checked against the following criteria for B-class status:
Referencing and citation: criterion met Coverage and accuracy: criterion met Structure: criterion met Grammar and style: criterion met Supporting materials: criterion met

Associated task forces:
/
	African military history task force
	British military history task force
	European military history task force
	North American military history task force
	United States military history task force
	Post-Cold War task force

Nigeria Mid‑importance

	Nigeria portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Nigeria, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Nigeria on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.NigeriaWikipedia:WikiProject NigeriaTemplate:WikiProject NigeriaNigeria articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Somalia Mid‑importance

	Somalia portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Somalia, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Somalia on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.SomaliaWikipedia:WikiProject SomaliaTemplate:WikiProject SomaliaWikiProject Somalia articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Terrorism Mid‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Terrorism, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of articles on terrorism, individual terrorists, incidents and related subjects on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.TerrorismWikipedia:WikiProject TerrorismTemplate:WikiProject TerrorismTerrorism articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

United Kingdom Mid‑importance

	United Kingdom portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject United Kingdom, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the United Kingdom on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.United KingdomWikipedia:WikiProject United KingdomTemplate:WikiProject United KingdomUnited Kingdom articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

United States: Military history Mid‑importance

	United States portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject United States, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of topics relating to the United States of America on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the ongoing discussions. Template Usage Articles Requested! Become a Member Project Talk Alerts United StatesWikipedia:WikiProject United StatesTemplate:WikiProject United StatesUnited States articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article is supported by WikiProject Military history - U.S. military history task force.

2010s Mid‑importance

	2010s portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject 2010s, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of 2010s on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.2010sWikipedia:WikiProject 2010sTemplate:WikiProject 2010s2010s articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the importance scale.

Daily pageviews of this article

A graph should have been displayed here but graphs are temporarily disabled. Until they are enabled again, visit the interactive graph at pageviews.wmcloud.org

Tip: Anchors are case-sensitive in most browsers.

This article links to one or more target anchors that no longer exist.

[[Al-Shabaab (militant group)#Leaders|Emir of al-Shabaab]] The anchor (#Leaders) has been deleted by other users before.
[[Al-Shabaab (militant group)#Leaders|Former Emir of al-Shabaab]] The anchor (#Leaders) has been deleted by other users before.

Please help fix the broken anchors. You can remove this template after fixing the problems. | Reporting errors

2022 Update

Al-Shabaab lost much territory in the recent months and is about to lose more. Here almost all is said and also in near future more news are about to come.

Gehirnstein (talk) 11:53, 22 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Local militas are also helping government forces and are liberating over 40 villages and some of them were under al-Shabaab control for a decade.[1] [2] [3] [4] Gehirnstein (talk) 08:44, 14 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I'm probably going to be expanding this article to reflect the offensive Presidentofyes12 (talk) 15:02, 16 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Time to resolve or time to flee?

Time to resolve or time to flee? 2600:100D:B00C:9DDA:F1C0:4CF2:CD91:5BD4 (talk) 16:29, 28 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Updating the out-of-date map

According to Critical Threats, Al Shabaab has a very differing area of operations from the Wikipedia map. The map needs to be updated, where did the creator(s) even get the borders? [5] IdioticAnarchist (talk) 15:49, 14 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

What happened to the good map?

Why was the map showing actual Somali control removed? It actually showed Las Anod under Somali control, which it is. IdioticAnarchist (talk) 14:44, 29 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

And now the map shows explosive expansion of Al-Shabaab control. I wonder if it is the actual development on the ground or it simply means that the previous maps severely understated jihadists' area control. Gorgedweller (talk) 08:55, 30 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

People keep changing the map to an unsourcred one where Al-Shabaab controls all of the south.

There are egregious claims that Al-Shabaab is still in places like Diinsoor which they were expelled by Amisom 9 years ago and current disputes are handled by the South-West State of Somalia, so the area connecting Diinsoor and Baidoa should be marked red.

The road between between Baidoa and Mogadishu, notabally including towns like Buur Hakaba, should be marked as red, albeit with Al-Shabaab presence in rural areas

Along the Somali-Kenyan border, the area arounf Geriley should be marked as under government allied control, and since the entire border region is under vague control it should be striped.

Beyond that, the Northern areas of Somalia. Namely Khatumo state should only be marked as controlling Talex, Laascaanood, and Buudhoodle. With the Northern and Western parts of the claimed territory under Puntland and Somaliland control respectivily. Emx0264 (talk) 18:09, 2 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Map conflicts

A discussion on the the several maps added in the previous days and their sources was started on Wikimedia Commons Wowzers122 (talk) 21:42, 2 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sourcing

@Ecrusized, under the request of @Cullen328, I want to have a discussion with you about these maps. Zabezt (talk) 04:49, 29 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

OK, Zabezt, now what you need to do is explain in detail the specific objections you have to the 2016 map, citing reliable sources. Are you saying that the map was highly inaccurate in 2016, or are you saying that the map no longer reflects the realities in 2024, six years later? Those are different problems with different solutions. Since you object so strongly to the map, you need to explain exactly what your problem with the map is. That's your obligation. Cullen328 (talk) 05:02, 29 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I should probably tell you that isn't the exact argument.. lol, when I said I'll mention your suggestion, I meant that I would try to make it so that even if the file gets updated, you won't get confused with the maps date.

The actual argument is that the map Ecrusized is pushing is referenced from Twitter and an orthopedic projection with no source. Meanwhile the previous one was sourced from an actual website, but the source was 3 years old. So what i have been trying to do is discuss with Ecrusized if he can stop using his map and replace it with a. The previous map with the 3 year old source, or b. a new map referenced from a recent source. Zabezt (talk) 05:19, 29 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

*orthographic Zabezt (talk) 05:20, 29 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Zabezt, how can anyone know which maps you are discussing if you do not provide the file names? Which map with a 3 year old source? What is the source and how reliable is it? Cullen328 (talk) 06:23, 29 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

https://www.polgeonow.com/2021/12/who-controls-somalia-crisis-timeline.html]https://www.polgeonow.com/2021/12/who-controls-somalia-crisis-timeline.html This map is 3 years old. Zabezt (talk) 09:55, 29 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Zabezt, that website has a copyright notice. We can only use a freely licensed or public domain image. Cullen328 (talk) 16:26, 29 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Then I guess option b should be used instead, I have seen Ecrusized mention this map: File:Somali Al-Shabaab Offensive (2022-23).svg (sources in the talk page) which seems way more reliable then the Twitter source Ecrusized is currently using, why not ditch Twitter and fully source this map instead? Zabezt (talk) 23:18, 29 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I appreciate the effort put into creating the map on the Wikipedia article, but it's important to clarify that this map lacks validity as it conflates the mere presence of Al-Shabaab with actual control of territory. From my research, I've already identified numerous inaccuracies in the map's depiction of areas under Al-Shabaab's control. Presence does not equate to control, and such conflation can lead to significant misunderstandings about the situation on the ground. It's crucial that any representation of territorial control be based on precise and verified information. Replayerr (talk) 15:07, 30 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]