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OK, Zabezt, now what you need to do is explain in detail the specific objections you have to the 2016 map, citing reliable sources. Are you saying that the map was highly inaccurate in 2016, or are you saying that the map no longer reflects the realities in 2024, six years later? Those are different problems with different solutions. Since you object so strongly to the map, you need to explain exactly what your problem with the map is. That's your obligation. Cullen328 (talk) 05:02, 29 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I should probably tell you that isn't the exact argument.. lol, when I said I'll mention your suggestion, I meant that I would try to make it so that even if the file gets updated, you won't get confused with the maps date.
The actual argument is that the map Ecrusized is pushing is referenced from Twitter and an orthopedic projection with no source. Meanwhile the previous one was sourced from an actual website, but the source was 3 years old. So what i have been trying to do is discuss with Ecrusized if he can stop using his map and replace it with a. The previous map with the 3 year old source, or b. a new map referenced from a recent source. Zabezt (talk) 05:19, 29 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Zabezt, how can anyone know which maps you are discussing if you do not provide the file names? Which map with a 3 year old source? What is the source and how reliable is it? Cullen328 (talk) 06:23, 29 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I appreciate the effort put into creating the map on the Wikipedia article, but it's important to clarify that this map lacks validity as it conflates the mere presence of Al-Shabaab with actual control of territory. From my research, I've already identified numerous inaccuracies in the map's depiction of areas under Al-Shabaab's control. Presence does not equate to control, and such conflation can lead to significant misunderstandings about the situation on the ground. It's crucial that any representation of territorial control be based on precise and verified information. Replayerr (talk) 15:07, 30 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
As an outsider, one obvious problem with the map is the stated government control over Jamame which is not corroborated by any reliable source as it seems that al Shabaab still reigns over the city after many years of theie presence Gorgedweller (talk) 21:03, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion regarding this previously took place on commons. Basically Zabezt is adding a map that is not properly citing a source. It is a mix of different articles none of which put a clear picture of the extent of Al-Shabaab control. I am trying to add a significantly different map that directly cites an images regarding the Al-Shabaab control. What concerns me the most is the previous efforts by the user, and their clearly admitted personal interest in the issue (POV), diff here. Ecrusized (talk) 09:06, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Ecrusized, the map is sourced. And it's sourced better than yours. Your map is sourced from a post on Twitter that isnt specific enough, while mine is sourced from a range of sources, (one of them on Somalia's main Wikipedia Article) If you believe the way I handled the discussion was wrong, I'm sorry. We can have an actual one this time. Zabezt (talk) 11:05, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
From reading Constitutional crisis in Somalia, I am under the impression that Puntland has explicitly declared independence and that Jubaland implicitly has as both have severed ties with the Somali federal government. If this is the case, then the belligerents in the infobox, the map, and the timeline need to be updated.
I agree, but they shouldn't be marked as "fully separated from Somalia", I haven't seen anything that says Puntland and Jubaland want to be independent countries, from what i've read, they declared de-facto independence in protest of the actions of Somalia's president. A shaded line would do just fine. You can ask the creator of the map, Guardafuuii, but they haven't really edited for a while.(Nevermind, they just started editing again.) Zabezt (talk) 16:49, 3 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I know that the map is a pretty controversial thing, so it may be inappropriate of me to put in my suggestion, but I'm doing so anyway. There are a few things added that are not up to Wikipedia map standards, so just disregard those if you're using my map as a reference. Some explanations for a few things:
- Jubaland shown as completely separate entity due to armed clashes between them and Somali forces
- Puntland shown as "autonomous" entity due to lack of armed clashes (also, to my knowledge, Somali and Puntland forces still operate together sometimes)
- Al-Shabaab area based on Critical Threats
https://imgur.com/a/djzYjcCIdioticAnarchist (talk) 04:24, 18 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
As I had mentioned in the topic above this, I think a solution like the Myanmar civil war (2021–present) map works better as it shows distinct factions that are grouped together within the legend below the map.
This style is also present in the Syrian civil war infobox. Notably in the Syrian case, belligerence is not clarified as the Interim Government and Transitional Government are not listed together but are also not at odds. By not specifying allegiance, the factions can be listed without much controversy.
Using the current infobox style, having more colors within the Somalia divider for Jubaland and Puntland would accomplish the goal of showing allegiance while nuancing their autonomy. Sir Ross★▀▀(talk)16:55, 21 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
That was my aim when making the current infobox style. I'm still waiting on @Guardafuuii to actually separate Puntland and Jubaland from the rest of Somalia on the map. Zabezt (talk) 16:49, 29 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I forgot to mention that I was going to wait for the Puntland offensive to end so I could map it. But yeah I keep forgetting to split Jubaland lol Guardafuuii (talk) 19:59, 29 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
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