Talk:Tyla (album)

Peer review 1

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Peer review

Tyla (album) I've listed this article for Peer Review because I think it has the potential to become a Featured Article. dxneo (talk) 07:23, 10 June 2024 (UTC) Comments Review comments Hello! I have some general comments first which will hopefully help get things started here. "To Last" seems to be 2:56 long according to the included tracklist, so the maximum permitted sample length would be 17.6 seconds. Although two samples is kind of hard to justify, so you could let go of this sample and just keep the other one, which is of appropriate length. Reply:  Done Both all caps and all lowercase are not used while writing publication names in references, for example, you would want to change every instance of "UPROXX" to "Uproxx", "the journalist dj" to "The Journalist DJ", etc. Reply:  Done There should also be a consistent format. I would suggest getting rid of the url format (www.ra.co, digital.abcaudio.com) and using just names (RA, ABC Audio) instead. Reply:  Done Student newspapers are not allowed at FA, for example Massachusetts Daily Collegian A non-primary source Tiktok should definitely not be used as a source (like this one) This is a bit of a pain to do, but MOS:CONFORMTITLE is a surprisingly big deal at FACs so that would have to be consistently applied. That means choosing either sentence case or title case, consistently, for every ref title. Also, you would want to link the website/publisher in every reference where they have an article. Reply:  Done Frankly, I am completely unfamiliar with the reliability of most of the African sources included. But any sources included in WP:RSPSS and not green-linked are a no-no. Reply: I did not find any of the cited source listed at WP:RSPSS Have you looked at print reviews that may not have been published online? These can be found using databases like Newspapers.com. If any of these exist and haven't been included in an article, that can be swiftly used to get an FAC closed. I will go more in-depth in the prose after the above is addressed, but in the meantime I had a few questions. Reply: There are some articles with the word "Tyla" the singer, but unfortunately they are subscription required so I cannot access any of them. "Capitalizing on her international breakthrough with its lead single "Water", the album features guest appearances" - What is the correlation between the success of "Water" and the decision to include guest appearances? Isn't it a solo hit? Reply: I believe the editor was talking about the album collaborations when they mentioned "guest appearances," not the song. "Recording sessions for Tyla took place in seven countries over two and a half years as Epic Records focused on fostering the singer's formal studio experience" - You want to avoid using "the singer" and just use Tyla's name or "her" instead. Also, the meaning of the second part of this sentence is kind of unclear. Reply:  Done "Production and songwriting on the album were spearheaded by the singer and her frequent collaborators" - I am curious how she already has "frequent collaborators", considering this is her debut album. I would also deem the "Fantastic Four" bit unnecessary to include in the lead. Reply:  Done I think the success of "Water" deserves to be highlighted more in the lead, since it is multiplatinum in so many countries and reached the top 10 in Australia, New Zealand, the UK and the US. Reply: Wouldn't that be a bit off topic as there is a whole "Water" article linked and a little discussed under the Singles section? If you feel like it must be more highlighted, please do tell and I'll work on it. "many critics praising the versatility of the music genres featured" - Did they praise the versatility of the genres or Tyla's versatility for being able to do so many genres? Reply:  Done It's unnecessary to say the album's success was "moderate", unless a secondary source made such a distinction. That covers some of the sourcing and the lead section. I hope you are liking the review so far. Best, NØ 15:45, 19 June 2024 (UTC) I will attend more requests after an hour, and yes, the review is fine and a lot of work too. dxneo (talk) 13:33, 20 June 2024 (UTC) MaranoFan, I think I've covered everything here. dxneo (talk) 14:10, 20 June 2024 (UTC) There still seems to be a mix of sentence cased reference titles ("Tyla hits up Shoreditch, Byredo's new store opens & more this week") and title cased ones ("Tyla Plans Announced The 2024 'Tyla Tour' In North America And Europe"). Also, the magazine is called People and not "Peoplemag", so all instances should consistently be changed to the former. "Capitalizing on her international breakthrough with its lead single "Water", the album features guest appearances from Kelvin Momo, Tems, Gunna, Skillibeng, Becky G, and Travis Scott." - The problem with this sentence is that the structure implies a correlation between the events. I think you can just remove the bit before the comma from here and mention the success of "Water" later in the lead along with the other singles. The originally scheduled March 1 release date does not look relevant enough for a mention in the lead to me, given the proximity to the eventual release date. Regarding mentioning the success of "Water" in the lead, you could do it briefly with a short sentence, like: "The album was supported by four singles: "Water", which reached the top 10 and achieved multi-platinum certifications in multiple countries, "Truth or Dare", "Art", and "Jump"." The key to good prose is being concise wherever possible. Some examples: "In 2021, Tyla signed a recording contract with the record label and then departed from South Africa for the first time in her life in order to attend a writing camp in Dubai, United Arab Emirates, where the label had organized a songwriting camp for Tyla." → "In 2021, Tyla signed a contract with the label and left South Africa for the first time to attend a writing camp they had organized for her in Dubai." "It was during this time that she met Ari PenSmith, Mocha Bands, Believve and Sammy SoSo, who would go on to become her collaborators and handle the majority of the production and songwriting work on Tyla" → "During the sessions, she met Ari PenSmith, Mocha Bands, Believve and Sammy SoSo, who later produced and wrote most of Tyla." "While speaking on the album's sound before its release, Tyla described the album as an "experimental album" in December 2023." Also, the statement she gave in October should appear before the December one. There is too much repetition of "the album" in the second paragraph of the Background and release section. Try varying it with "Tyla" or "it" "She had extended the album submission date to collaborate with the Nigerian singer Tems on the song "No.1" - Not sure why this statement would appear after the mention of the album release. It should definitely go earlier in the paragraph I apologize for stressing this, but two samples are hard to justify according to the NFCC. The prose says "Jump" is the only trap-infused song on the album, so I would assume it is not representative of the whole album's sound and thus should be removed. The "Truth or Dare" sample is more fitting since I guess it represents the amapiano sound of the album. The second statement in the "Truth or Dare" sample caption is not a full sentence but a period is used after it. "Tai Saint-Louis of HipHopDX noted that "the project is a collection of mid-tempo bops that could easily serve as background music for a dinner party, workout or study session." and Beats Per Minute described Tyla as a solid record with no skips." - These are subjective critical opinions, not a factual description of the music, and as such are more fit for the Critical reception section rather than Composition. You would just want to include objective descriptions of the musical styles/genres here. "Opening with "Intro", with production from South African record producer Kelvin Momo, is a 41-second recording that plays in the background while people converse" - This does not seem to be a grammatically correct sentence. Also, I do not think such a big quote about "Intro" is appropriate in this section since it should be about evenly split between the different tracks. I have seen people take issue with Musicnotes at FAC so my suggestion would be to remove it. "It is a pop, and R&B infused amapiano song' - No comma required between pop and R&B "It is described as a "kind of naughty song"" - Who is describing it as such? Direct quotes should all be attributed. Honestly, this characterization isn't very useful for readers to understand the musical composition of the song so I would remove it altogether. "Tyla sings about the desire of a woman to experience a squirting orgasm" - This sounds a bit informal to be in wikivoice and does not seem to have been paraphrased enough from the source. ""Truth or Dare", the fourth song in the album, is described as a slab of afrobeats and amapiano" - Wherever it is mentioned that something is being "described", readers would be curious who is doing it. You could mention the critic "On the chorus, Tyla sings about reminiscing about the times when her then-lover used to mistreat her" - close repetition of "about" "she's challenging him to catch up" - No contractions outside quotation marks "The seventh song on the album, "Butterflies", is a distinct fusion of hip hop, pop, and R&B" - distinct from what? "a great song to just groove to; the subdued atmosphere makes for an intimate experience, heightened by Tyla's luscious vocal performance," - purely subjective and also does not really belong in the Composition section "Tyla's objectives are to maintain the leaders of the movement at the forefront and to promote the pride and sounds of her nation as she sings "they ain't never had a pretty girl from Jo'burg, see me now and that's what they prefer" on "Jump"" - convoluted "featuring not so smooth vocals from Gunna, and Skillibeng" - informal, and the comma isn't needed ""Jump" opens with an intro by Skillibeng complimenting Tyla, calling her "an original gyal," then Tyla jumped in for the first verse with braggadocio" - mid-sentence tense switch "Described as the most pleasantly erotic song Tyla has released since "Water" is "Art", the tenth song in the album" - this is an oddly framed sentence Apologies but the Composition and lyrics section is currently not up to standard and will require complete rewriting before it can be considered at FAC. It would help to look at this section on existing FAs as a reference. There are many unattributed quotes and informal language. "On 30 November 2023, she performed "On and On" on the German music performance platform ColorsxStudios, then performed an unreleased remix version of "Water" with South African DJ and record producer Black Coffee" - this reads odd The singles section should include some of the other countries "Water" went top 10 in, since that is quite an impressive achievement. Not sure why the picture of Scott and Gunna is in this section? This section is way too long... 1989 is a good reference for rewriting this part. Only the really important information about the singles should be included and it should be done in a succinct manner. The Critical reception section has way too many quotes that could stand to be paraphrased a bit. It should also be arranged into themes in accordance with WP:RECEPTION and condensed a bit to club similar themes from different reviewers. The YouTube playlist external link is not necessary. I would suggest replacing it with the Discogs.com listing. The copyvio score is higher than optimal on three sources and needs to be brought down. The new batch of comments is a lot of work so I hope you take your time with this and do not feel overwhelmed! I see you have put it up for a WP:GOCE copyedit already, which should significantly help break down the long sentences and take care of the comma issues. Tyla is a talented artist, and I am always happy to help bring attention to Epic Records artists considering how terrible the label treats them... Hopefully this helped and this can attract more reviewers. Cheers, NØ 17:19, 21 June 2024 (UTC) Hello MaranoFan, I have tried to address the issues raised here with assistance from GOCE. My only worry is the Composition and lyrics section since you said it's far from meeting the FAC standard, we worked on it, and trimmed the article. I swear the article lost lots of calories than Gunna sweating after snitching haha. Please look at it and give me the feedback. I only left out Critical reception for later since (only the prose) wasn't written by me and it doesn't seem to carry a lot of work. I'm really tapped out sheesh. I also addressed the lead single issues and so on Thank you for taking this review mate, you the best. dxneo (talk) 16:24, 6 July 2024 (UTC) I must say I am a bit disappointed after reading this discussion. If "slavishly obeying" the suggestions downgrades the article's quality then there is no need to accept them. I had recommended 1989 as an example so that the Singles section could be accommodated into the Release and promotion section for better flow, and nowhere was it suggested that it is a "one size fits all". This has not been done... Anyways, I no longer feel comfortable proceeding with FAC mentorship for this article but I wish you well.--NØ 15:19, 7 July 2024 (UTC) MaranoFan bro please wait, I have addressed your requests as the nominator. I actually think you are good at this stuff that's why I came to you first. I was trying to be polite and mostly undid GOCE edits while trimming down the article. I politely brought up your suggestions into that conversation just so the other editor can see where we are heading but it seems like they didn't care and they also thought we are working towards GA which was also wrong. Please help me out, I really really need your help. dxneo (talk) 16:54, 7 July 2024 (UTC) Okay mate, tell you what, as part of my apology, I'm willing to review "Hands on Me" but it's gonna take me at least three nights (UTC+2). Please help me, and please don't go soft on me, I'm willing to work on it until you feel like it's ready for FAC. I really want this to work. dxneo (talk) 17:02, 7 July 2024 (UTC) You do not have to apologize as it is really not about me. It is important to understand that FAC is a community-driven process. It would be open for everybody to comment in, and most people are actually less lenient than me when it comes to scrutinizing. Me going "hard" or "soft" would not determine the outcome of the FAC. In fact, since FAC is time-bound unlike a peer review, you would have a harder time addressing things when people bring them up there compared to here. The article is still a long distance away from being ready, and you have not even implemented the three sentence suggestions which had to be pasted in the Background and release section verbatim... I suggest you work with somebody else. Although every comment that is already here should be addressed before nominating, since unaddressed PR comments usually spell doom for an FAC. Thanks.--NØ 17:51, 7 July 2024 (UTC) OK. dxneo (talk) 17:54, 7 July 2024 (UTC) Template:FAC peer review sidebar I have added this article to Template:FAC peer review sidebar. Please consider reviewing other articles listed there. Z1720 (talk) 16:52, 20 June 2024 (UTC) @Dxneo: It has been over a month since the last comment. Is this ready to be closed and nominated to FAC? Z1720 (talk) 19:45, 14 August 2024 (UTC) Hello Z1720, please give me at least 3–5 more days to double check and I'll let you know if it is ready or not. Thank you! dxneo (talk) 19:52, 14 August 2024 (UTC) Thank you Z1720 for giving me time to tidy the article. I believe that it is ready now. dxneo (talk) 03:29, 21 August 2024 (UTC) @Dxneo: If this is ready to be closed, please follow the instructions at WP:PRG to close this. Z1720 (talk) 14:36, 21 August 2024 (UTC)

BBC Radio 1Xtra

I don't think BBC Radio 1Xtra should ever be used for radio dates, because looking at this (archived), what is "Kendrick Lamar - Tracks from 'GNX'"? Should we label all the tracks singles or what? How absurd. dxneo (talk) 02:02, 4 December 2024 (UTC)

Audio samples in this article

I'm thinking about removing them from the parent album article and leaving them remaining in their respective song articles. I just don't see how two samples can help readers grasp fully what the whole album is about, honestly. I have trouble seeing how text and cover art are inadequate in telling readers about the whole album. George Ho (talk) 19:57, 3 December 2024 (UTC)

Hello George Ho, I say it's okay to remove the samples, although I feel like "Truth or Dare" is more of her signature "popiano" genre, why not leave "Truth or Dare"? I just don't understand the last sentence, can you elaborate. dxneo (talk) 20:56, 3 December 2024 (UTC)

I just now removed the "Jump" sample from this article.

I'll rephrase the last sentence: The "contextual significance" criterion has a clause saying that omitting a file would detriment readers' understanding of the article subject, e.g. the whole album (which contains a track demonstrated by the sample). In my interpretation, the sample fails to meet that criterion. Honestly, I think the album may be already understood without the remaining sample(s). I just fail to see how omitting this sample would affect what's already understood (contextually) by the cover art and the whole article. George Ho (talk) 22:01, 3 December 2024 (UTC)

Oh okay. What's your suggestion? Remove all the samples? dxneo (talk) 22:38, 3 December 2024 (UTC)

I'll remove the remaining sample from the album article if you don't oppose. Seems that you'd rather leave the samples in the song articles, wouldn't you, thinking that they may contextually signify the respecitve songs? George Ho (talk) 02:44, 4 December 2024 (UTC)

Breathe Me

This was never promoted on radio or streaming as a single. Why is it being listed as a single? Because it got a music video? Cool Marc ✉ 19:51, 14 January 2025 (UTC)

You are absolutely right. Problem is that sources like Rolling Stone called it a fifth single from the album, I guess that's how it got there. Rolling Stone literally calls almost every track a single, they did the same with "Push 2 Start" before it was serviced to radio. There's a video for "Shake Ah", but it's not a single for some reason. To cut this short, I don't think "Breathe Me" is a single; there's no radio date. dxneo (talk) 21:20, 14 January 2025 (UTC)

Peer review

Tyla (album)

Previous peer review

Coming from a failed FAC, archived minutes ago. Main issue (if not only) was prose, grammatical errors to be specific. I'm here requesting a third peer review (fifth if we adding coaching). Any constructive comments will be highly appreciated. dxneo (talk) 12:16, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

Medxvo

• multi-platinum certificates - multi-platinum certificates — per MOS:PIPE
• "In an interview with Nandi Madida, Tyla said that she wanted to kickstart her album with a South African sound" - shouldn't this be in the first paragraph next to the "musically, ..." sentence?
• "It was also released in the United Kingdom" - "It was also released in the United Kingdom"
• "She promoted the record by hosting pop-up shows" - Tyla's name should probably be stated here since it is not related to the preceding sentence
• "Upon its release, it generally received acclaim from critics" - same issue here
• "Tunisia, Papua New Guinea" - "Tunisia and Papua New Guinea"
• "It won Newcomer of the Year, Best Pop Album and Female Artist of the Year at the 30th Annual South African Music Awards. It was certified gold in Brazil, Canada, New Zealand and the United States" - shouldn't the placement of these two sentences be reversed since the preceding sentence mentions the commercial performance (peaked at ..... etc)?
• "The music video gained popularity in South Africa as it garnered over 930,000 views on YouTube in a month and piqued the interest of executives at Epic Records" - the YouTube views are global views and Epic is an American company so how are those related to its popularity in SA?
• "In December 2023, before the album's release, she described it as an "experimental album" - can probably be moved to the composition section as, "Described by Tyla as an "experimental album", Tyla is an amapiano, pop and R&B record that contains elements ..."
• "Water" was described as a song ..." - I think this should be attributed to the Uproxx writer (The writer's name should also be added to the citation)
• "The fourth song on the album, "Truth or Dare", it is an amapiano recording" - "it" should be removed here
• "i's Ed Power wrote" - "The i's Ed Power wrote"

Hi @Dxneo: I wanted to participate in the FAC but noticed that the prose has some problems including those above, and I wrote those down for the purpose of participating in the FAC, but to be honest, I wouldn't be able to support there even if they were solved because of the notable problems, so I'm personally grateful to be able to help you here so that we both feel comfortable. Those are just examples that I have noticed, I'll try to add more soon. Also another thing is that none of AllMusic, Rolling Stone, or Sputnikmusic are added in the professional ratings template, which is kinda strange. Medxvo (talk) 12:50, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

Hello mate, thank you so much. I'll address these after the copyedit. I'll look at your PR soon. dxneo (talk) 18:27, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

Hi @Dxneo: hope you're having a good day, I came to add more comments but I'm not sure that the copyedit is done, feel free to ping me once it's done so I can take another look. In the meantime, I will take a look at your current FLC very soon, and I hope you'll be able to look at my PR soon too. I'm waiting for your comments before closing it :) I wish you all the best! Medxvo (talk) 20:25, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

FrB.TG

As an FAC coordinator and someone who has taken several music-related articles to FA, I am very familiar with the level of prose quality expected at FAC. If you want, I can give the article a thorough copy-edit. FrB.TG (talk) 12:56, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

Thank you, FrB.TG, I'd really appreciate it. Please proceed. dxneo (talk) 12:59, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

A few things I observed during my copy-edits so far.

• A big part of my copy-edit so far has included rearranging sentences for a better flow and to keep the same topics in one place.
• "The album was ultimately released on 22 March 2024[18] by FAX Records and Epic Records[19] and in the United Kingdom by Since '93 and RCA Records.[20]" Where was it reelased on 22 March 2024? Internationally?

Not sure how I should explain this, but I think the release history would explain it better. It was released internationally or in various countries on 22 March 2024 by FAX and Epic. However, in the UK it was released by Since '93 and RCA. (Different labels, but on the same day). Then there were formats (CD and vinyl), released in the US and South Africa by Epic and Sony Music South Africa respectively. The Japanese edition (CD only) was later released on 7 August 2024.

• The article switches a lot from the United Kingdom and United States to the UK and US for no apparent reason. I recommend that you stick to one; my own preference would to use the acronyms.

Noted.

• "In October 2023" There needs to be a {{nbsp}} between "October" and "2023" (there are many other examples throughout the article). See WP:NBPS. FrB.TG (talk) 17:18, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

I've never used this before. Question, how does it work and how does it help? dxneo (talk) 18:22, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

FrB.TG notify me when you are done with copyediting. Thanks! dxneo (talk) 16:24, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

it might take a few days till I’m finished. I briefly glanced at sections like Reception and it’s gonna take a lot of work there. I’ll explain more later. FrB.TG (talk) 19:08, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

No problem. dxneo (talk) 23:21, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

• "she performed pop-up shows" - what's a "pop-up show"?
• The second paragraph of live performances is too long. I tried to copy-edit it a bit but the long run-on sentences are sometimes hard to understand. It's also quite repetitive: "she performed this, then she performed that". Consider varying it a bit and splitting the paragraph into two.
• ""Art" was accompanied by a music video on the day of the release" - I assume the day of the album's release?
• "where it was certified gold by Music Canada" - who is Music Canada? A short introduction would be helpful.
• The reception section is repetitive and formulaic, relying heavily on "X said Y" structures and excessive direct quotes, which makes it monotonous. It lacks thematic organization, presenting critiques in a disjointed way rather than grouping similar points, such as genre blending or authenticity. To improve, the reviews should be summarized and arranged by themes, with reduced redundancy and varied sentence structures for better readability and flow. See WP:RECEPTION for more details. FrB.TG (talk) 19:07, 22 January 2025 (UTC)

Query by Z1720

@Dxneo: It has been over a month since the last comment. Is this ready to be nominated at FAC? Z1720 (talk) 16:50, 10 January 2025 (UTC)

Hello Z1720, I'm waiting for FrB.TG to complete the copyedit process. It's not ready just yet. dxneo (talk) 17:22, 10 January 2025 (UTC)

@Dxneo, apologies. I have been busy lately and couldn't get to it. I'll get to it in the next few days I promise. FrB.TG (talk) 16:21, 12 January 2025 (UTC)

Thank you so much. dxneo (talk) 16:29, 12 January 2025 (UTC)