Talk:Tulu script

This page providing fair information about Tulu script. Please do never delete this page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by TULU PAATERO (talk • contribs) 09:25, 6 November 2021 (UTC)

Making separate page for Tulu script

Reasons The script used by the migrating Tulu priests in Kerala to write vedas and mantras around 11-12th century is popularly known as the Tulu Script. As this script form is popular in both Tulunad and Kerala, it’s called TuluMalayalam script. This Tulu-Malayalam script became Malayalam script in Kerala and Tulu script in Tulunad. There is another variant script which is called as Tigalari script. These three scripts share much similarities because they originated from same parent script which grantha

Stone inscriptions found in Anantapura, Eeshwaramangala, Vittla, Dharmasthala, Bajakoodlu, Kidooru, Maameshara, gosada, kelakuli, kulashekhara, Parakkila, Kumata and many places stand as evidences for reach of Tulu script. A copper inscription in Tulu was also found in Ubrangala. Tulu witnessed literature works back in 10-11th century. Tulu script was also in wide use in Tulunad. A claim of Dr. Puninchitttaya stating Tuluvas gave script to Malayalam seems to be rightful looking at all these facts. 2 In olden days Vatteluttu script was used in both Tamilnad and Kerala. This is an altered form of Ashoka’s Brahmi script. In the time of Pandyas and Cheras this was the official script. All the records, literatures, writings and inscriptions were in Vatteluttu. This script was used in Southern Tamilnadu and in Kerala. Till 18th century there was a practise of writing Malayalam in Vatteluttu. Vatteluttu was spred in Tamilunadu and Kerala around 6th or 7th century, which was originated from the Brahmi scripts found in the caves of south Tamilnadu. It had 30 letters. The script used to write Pallava inscriptions in 7th century is called Madhyagrantha script. Modern Grantha script evolved from here. In coastal region of Karnataka i.e. Tulunad this script is used to write Sanskrit books. It is also called Tulu-Malayalam script because its transformation began in the hands of Tuluvas. Some have also coined the term Aryaeluttu, because it is also used to write Aryan language Sanskrit. Vatteluttu, a script with 30 characters was used to write Tamiland old Malayalam. As the influence of Sanskrit increased on Malayalam, there was a need to use a script with ore character set. This need was overcome by gradually borrowing the characters from Aryaeluttu which was used by Tulu Brahmins who were performing poojas in Temples of Kerala. According to graphologist A.C. Burnell present day Malayalam script attained this form after 15th century. Most of the Malayalam inscriptions and records are found in Vatteluttu itself. A.C.Burnell in his work Elements of South Indian Paleography says “This is the original Tamil alphabet which was once used in all that part of the peninsula south of Tanjavore and also in south Malabar and Travancore were it still exists through in exceedingly limited use and in a modern form.” Tulu inscriptions found till date stand as proof for the fact that Arya eluttu was used to write Tulu way before it was used for Malayalam. Difference in handwritings of different people produces different script forms. In case of Tulu, it is much higher. After typing/printing presses began scripts attained uniformity. Everyone follow the one form which is being used for printing. Tulu lacks standard form because it was never used in printing form. There was a question “Why a script used for writing Sanskrit is called as Tuluscript?” This question as answered when ancient Tulu epics were discovered in this script. These Tulu works proved that many Tulu works were produced before 15th century. This strengthens the fact that the script called as Aryaeluttu by Malayalis was basically Tulu Script. According to researcher Puninchittaya, this script was spread in Kerala around 12th century by Tulu Brahmins. 3 Tulu script has both circular shaped and flat letters. Usually, Kannada script follows Anti-clockwise movement whereas Tulu follows clockwise movement. Generally consonant conjuncts can be found above, below, before or after a letter. In Kannada there is no practise of using consonant conjuncts before a letter and usually these are half form of the main letter. In Tulu whole letter written belowor just right bottom are considered as conjuncts. Kannada letters have flatheads whereas Tulu letters miss this feature. Many letters in Tulu have similar shapes but they differ in their orientation. In the book The Elements of South Indian Palaeography published by A C Burnell in 1874 discussed about Tuluscript and shown the alphabet. A similar contribution can be found in Bharatiya lipi maala a hindi book published by Roy Bahadur Gowrishankar Ojha in 1971. Dr. Venkataraja Puninchittaya published a book ‘TuluLipi’ in 2001, which has different symbols compared to Burnell and Ojha representations. This notation is found in south side of Kasaragod. Dr. S R Vighnraj,from thousands of Tulu script palm leaves which he has read, have proposed a standard Tulu script, which shares good similarities with Burnell and Ojha versions. Book published by Udupi Puttige Mutt have slight changes in Tulu Script. These changes are mere results of changes in handwriting and are not to be confused with other script. Bannanje Govindacharya also compiled a chapter on Tulu script. All these are compiled from studying thousands of palm leaves and eliminating dissimilarities. Tulu has its own number system. Generally, it’s rare to see Tulu numbering system is palm leaves. The number system proposed by Dr. S R Vighnaraj, after referring number of manuscripts is accepted and standardized. Most of the palm leaves found in Tulunad are in Tulu script. Kannada, Nagari, Grantha, Malayalam all put together do not contribute as much as Tulu script. Most of palm leave books are mantra books. Some books with medicinal, astrology, literature is also available. Majority of these are in Sanskrit language. One can find few palm leaves of Kannada language written in Tulu script. Paper manuscripts of Tulu are also available.

Debate on Tigalari Script : The book 'Alivinanchinalliruva Tigalari lipi hasthaprathigalu' compiled by Dr.Keladi Gunda Joisa and Dr.Keladi Venkatesha Joisa, published by Keladi research foundation in 2017 compares Tigalari and Tulu scripts to be the two variant scripts with minor differences. They further add an assumption that Havyakas were the one who put forth this script custom during the time of Shivappa Nayaka. ' Due to the migration of people in later part of 16th century and 17th century from Ikkeri to South Canara, this script became popular in South Canara. Perhaps they used this script to pen down the literature of their regional language. The original script of Havyakas of Malenadu is Tigalari and they maintained their day-to-day writings such as home accounts, details of temple expenditures, astrology etc in this script There is no doubt that this script has been popular in Tulunad region ever since 10th century. This is more evident by the facts that recent excavations of various Tulu inscriptions belonging to 10th, 11th and 12th centuries. Along with that, ancient Tulu epics such as Karna parva, Sambhava parva, Shri Mahabharato, Shri Bhagavato could be easily traced back to 15th century and earlier. If one observes the linguistic difference between the Tulu used in inscriptions, epics with the current Tulu one can easily identify the more variation compared to the difference between 12th century Kannada language and Morden Kannada. The reference of Bankideva, Kavisimha, Kulashekhara in the Tulu inscriptions gives more information on the antiquity of Tulu script in Tulunad region. Hence the debate of Tulu script custom being borrowed during the time of Shivappa Nayaka in Tulunad is not an acceptable argument also the 'original script of Havyakas of Malenadu is Tigalari'. The Havyakas and Shivalli brahmins of South Canara and Kasargod too have extensively used this script. In fact, one can find more palm leave vaidhik manuscript in the vicinity of Shivalli brahmins. Also, the density of palm leaves in this script is abundant in Tulunad region with the fact that in this region the term Tigalari is not being used. Hence the claim of ' Tulu people influencing this script in recent days is not true. Hence it is more evident that tulu and tigalari scripts are not same. They are different script with minor differences like Kannada and Telugu script Mr anonymousMr (talk) 13:55, 26 October 2021 (UTC)

Hi @Mr anonymousMr! I just reviewed this page, which I see has gone through some contentious back-and-forth in the page history regarding the difference between different scripts for these languages. I am not very knowledgable in this field, but it seems like you have quite a bit of information on this (and some passion on the issue), which is really good!

As it stands now, though, the article needs to be cleaned up quite a bit. The biggest problem is that you don't cite any sources, which makes it difficult to verify the information. When you get a chance, you should review WP:V and try and link some sources that fill the criteria there and verify your information. From my own research, it looks like the Tulu script has been in the news recently because of attempts to digitize it - This might be another place for you to start! Here are two articles ([1], [2]) talking about that.

Happy editing, and feel free to reach out if you have any questions about Wikipedia policies! ThadeusOfNazereth^{Talk to Me!} 14:44, 26 October 2021 (UTC)

Thank you for replying. I will soon put the source of information Mr anonymousMr (talk) 14:58, 26 October 2021 (UTC)

TULU is an ancient dravidian language, It was well developed language, it's not dialect of any other language, it's exists directly from proto dravidian, and it also had own script, many were wrote in that script, tigalari and tulu are not same it is different, tulu helps to create malayalam script. All are agree to separate Tulu script wiki Iampuneeth (talk) 10:50, 27 October 2021 (UTC)

Dear Wikipedia,

The core purpose of Wikipedia is to bring Truth into frontline. The existence of Tulu Script & Tulu community is legit. I am new to Wikipedia editing & I don't see why the page is reported under deletion policy. The script is revived & is being currently used offline. The supression of Truth is what being done by some people/community who hate to see the rise of Tulu in world wide web. The truth is Tulu language & Tulu Script is as real as the core existence of Wikipedia.

Thanks ✌️ Tulunadapili (talk) 05:13, 7 November 2021 (UTC)

Yess Vaishali Udupa (talk) 09:07, 7 November 2021 (UTC)

Thanks Vaishali Udupa (talk) 09:07, 7 November 2021 (UTC)

Yes. Nice information. Jtuluve (talk) 16:18, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

Good information Tulunad Channel (talk) 01:55, 11 November 2021 (UTC)

Tulu Language: Its Script and Dialects

Tulu language is one of the five Dravidian languages of South India (Pancha- Bhasha, others are Tamil, Telugu, Kannada and Malayalam). The four major languages spoken today are dominantly spoken in their respective states (Tamilnadu, Andhra Pradesh, Karnataka and Kerala), whereas Tulu is spoken in a small niche, mainly in coastal Karnataka and Northern Karala (Kasaragod district). About 2.5 million people speak Tulu and call it their mother tongue. Tulu nadu is a region where many languages are spoken. While Kannada is the official state language, different ethnic communities in Tulu Nadu speak different languages. Tulu, derived from proto-Dravidian is the predominant language spoken by Hindus of various castes and by the Jains of Tulu Nadu. Konkanasthas and Catholics speak two variants of Konkani. Muslims speak a language of their own that is derived from Tulu as well as Malayalam.

There are about 24 Dravidian languages recognized by linguists. Of these the five languages in the South developed into major languages. Tulu is the only developed language that has not received the recognition it is due. However, Tulu language with its near extinct script has been generating much enthusiasm amongst the linguists, as it is now believed to be one of the oldest Dravidian languages. Sudarshan Shetty9 (talk) 15:05, 26 October 2021 (UTC)

Yes I agree. There is need for creating separate page for Tulu script Mr anonymousMr (talk) 16:05, 26 October 2021 (UTC)

The Script

The Tulu language has lost its prominence as a major language. Lack of serious literature in Tulu language has also hampered its claim as a language to be taught in educational institutes. Though it is certain that most of the literature has been lost because of difficulties in preserving palm leaf scrolls, the earliest literature available is from the 15th century. This indeed is a much later work than the language itself, which is thousands of years old. There was also some confusion regarding the script of Tulu language, which closely resembles Malayalam. It was thought that priests from Tulu Nadu went south to Kerala to perform and learn Agama Sastra rituals, where they jotted notes borrowing the Malayalam alphabets. This was the prevailing thought of many researches although now there is a consensus that Tulu language possessed its own script before Malayalam script existed. Perhaps the reciprocal is true that the Malayalam script developed from Tulu script as the language predates Malayalam by more than a thousand years. The priests who went south are now credited with carrying mantras written in Tulu script to Kerala. Like Tamil and Malayalam, Tulu script is derived from the Grantha* script. Sudarshan Shetty9 (talk) 15:07, 26 October 2021 (UTC)

Nice information Tulunad Channel (talk) 01:56, 11 November 2021 (UTC)

Tulu script

TULU is an ancient dravidian language, It was well developed language, it's not dialect of any other language, it's exists directly from proto dravidian, and it also had own script, many were wrote in that script, tigalari and tulu are not same it is different, tulu helps to create malayalam script. All are agree to separate Tulu script wiki Ganesh paner (talk) 17:02, 26 October 2021 (UTC)

yes i agree Mithunlokesh (talk) 00:40, 27 October 2021 (UTC)

TULU is an ancient dravidian language, It was well developed language, it's not dialect of any other language, it's exists directly from proto dravidian, and it also had own script, many were wrote in that script, tigalari and tulu are not same it is different, tulu helps to create malayalam script. All are agree to separate Tulu script Vaishali Udupa (talk) 09:06, 7 November 2021 (UTC)

I agree... Nice information... Tulunad Channel (talk) 01:57, 11 November 2021 (UTC)

I liked this page and I really want this page to be official Tulu page

Tulu and Tigalari are different. Blensonc (talk) 17:24, 26 October 2021 (UTC) Tulu and Tigalari are different — Preceding unsigned comment added by 43.247.157.20 (talk) 17:39, 26 October 2021 (UTC)

yes true. i agree Mithunlokesh (talk) 00:39, 27 October 2021 (UTC)

Yes I'll agree to this Vaishali Udupa (talk) 09:08, 7 November 2021 (UTC)

Making separate page for tulu script

Tulu is a individual dravidian language and has its own script Iampuneeth (talk) 10:35, 27 October 2021 (UTC)

Making separate page for tulu script

TULU is an ancient dravidian language, It was well developed language, it's not dialect of any other language, it's exists directly from proto dravidian, and it also had own script, many were wrote in that script, tigalari and tulu are not same it is different, tulu helps to create malayalam script. All are agree to separate Tulu script wiki Iampuneeth (talk) 10:51, 27 October 2021 (UTC)

Tulu script.... We want this page... Super page

Super page. Dont delete this page... Good information Tulunad Channel (talk) 08:55, 6 November 2021 (UTC)

It's a good page about Tulu script, it has good information. Iampuneeth (talk) 14:13, 10 November 2021 (UTC)

We need more information about Tulu script, so it could be helpful to people so don't delete this page Iampuneeth (talk) 14:16, 10 November 2021 (UTC)

No need for sperate page for tulu script as Tigalari and tulu scripts are same.

Naming of Tulu Script: Both tulu script and Tigalari script is same so no need of sperate page for Tigalari script.

The script being proposed here is was referred to by several names. The four commonly used ones are listed below (Refer to the supplementary paper 'Tulu Language and Tulu-Tigalari script' for a detailed analysis of this topic) : name of the script prevalent in references to their roots

Western Grantha / A few academic 19th Century Western scholars. Tulu-Malayalam4 publications Tulu Lipi / Taulava Lipi Coastal Karnataka Tulu speakers, eminent scholars like Tulu Grantha Lipi Dr. P Venkataraj Punichittaya & A C Burnell, Tulu Sahitya Academy. Tigalari / Tigalarya Tulunadu & Kannada speakers. Havyaka

Malenadu5 Community of both Tulunadu and 

(hilly regions of Malenadu, National Manuscript Karnataka) Mission Catalogues : popularised by Keladi Gunda Jois. Recoded by Dr P Venkataraj Punichittaya as an alias in his books. Grantha Lipi Udupi Ashta Matha Used for Hindu religious purposes and learning. The name by which this script is referred to is closely tied to its regional, linguistic or his- torical roots. It would not be wrong to assign all the names mentioned above to this script. Considering the technical difficulties in doing so, discussed below are a few reasons for choosing the term ‘Tulu-Tigalari’ in the current context. It is to be noted here that Arya Ezhuttu or what is commonly referred to as 'Grantha Malayalam' or sometimes the 'Tulu-Malayalam script', is a sister script of the Tulu-Tigalari Script that is being discussed here. It is the predecessor to the current reformed Malayalam script. Grantha Malayalam has a few peculiarities that diverge from Tigalari like CHILLU LLL, LETTER TTTA and Samvrutokaram behaviour, to name a few. The character shapes of Grantha Malayalam differ slightly from Tigalari when seen closely. 'Tulu script' or 'Taulava Grantha script' is the term used to refer to this script in the coastal regions of Karnataka and the Kasaragod district of Kerala. It is also called the 'Tulu script' in the seminal book documenting the various South Indian scripts, 'Elements of South Indian Palaeography' by Rev. A C Burnell. He also calls this the 'Western Grantha Script' in the same book. Dr. Venkataraja Puninchathaya has also published a book called Tulu lipi (Lipi meaning script) where he mentions Tulu-Malayalam, Tigalari and Tulu scripts as being sister scripts. There are several recent publications and instructional books for learning this script in the Tulu regions that use the term 'Tulu Script'. 4 Rev. A C Burnell refers to this script as Tulu-Malayalam script and calls it a form of western Grantha script. The Grantha script used in the Tamil region is in the same sentence called the Eastern Grantha script. (page 41.)

Reference:Updated proposal to encode Tulu-Tigalari script in Unicode Vaishnavi Murthy Kodipady Yerkadithaya [ vaishnavimurthy@gmail.com ] Vinodh Rajan [ vinodh@virtualvinodh.com ] Manoj kumar kannadiga (talk) 05:55, 7 November 2021 (UTC)

We need a separate Wikipedia page about Tulu script

We need a separate Wikipedia page about Tulu script. It will be useful for many people Tulunad Channel (talk) 11:37, 10 November 2021 (UTC)