Talk:Susan Fennell

POV & Citations

WikiRoo/WikiDoo:

As you have been stating recently that other editors are reverting your additions without discussion, I am posting this message here as well as on your talk page.

Wikipedia is not the place for you to express your personal opinions. I indicated to you before [1] that you should cite anything that you add. However, this [2] is not a cited addition. The content you added was critical of Ms. Farrell's policies, but the citation you provided simply did not back that up. The citation was simply a discussion of a new building for the Region of Peel Administrative Headquarters. Nowhere in that citation was even a mention of Ms. Fennell, especially not any mention of her politics or policies.

If you wish to add something that indicates that she has been criticized for something, you need to add a proper citation that directly backs up the content you add. In other words, someone in a WP:RS needs to express criticism for her policies in order for this [3] content to be properly cited. And even if you can find a citation, please try to make the article balanced. If you add something critical of a topic, try to find something positive to say to balance that. WP:NPOV is Wikipedia policy. If all you can think of is negativity, perhaps you should refrain from editing the article. Editors should approach an article from a neutral frame of mind; they should neither try to promote nor disparage the subject, but try to inform the readers of all the facts about the subject.

Please keep the above in mind as you continue to edit here. Thank you --AbsolutDan ^(talk) 01:31, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

Noted for having a "Cheerleader Style” of politics, as can be seen in the picture to the right.

Spearheading the Brampton/Caledon contingent on Peel Council to advance maintaining Peel Region authority over citizens of Brampton. By avoiding to take any personal initiative towards creating a distinct local community for the City of Brampton, she worked to maintain a diluted municipal structure in Brampton paving the way to the amalgamation of Mississauga with Brampton under the pending creation of the Mega City of Peel. http://www.peelregion.ca/council/decisions/2006/07_06_2006.htm#1

The image to the right not withstanding, there is no reference to the the claim of having a "cheerleader style." The second sentence is a fragment. The rest is still emotional and unsourced. Nothing says she's worked to do that but you. OzLawyer 03:09, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

Political ideology

Susan Fennell is closely associated politically with William Davis who was a former Premier of Ontario under a Conservative Government in the 70's and 80's. They work together on many public issues of importance such as the maintaining the governance over Brampton by Peel Region (5).

She also ran for the Tory flag in 1993 (6)

In municipal politics in Ontario, politicians are not officially partisan and political parties are not generally openly declared as part of the election process.

References:

• [4]Visiting Dignataries are...Led by Her worship Susan Fennell, Brampton’s Mayor, former Ontario Premier William Davis (1981 – 1985)...

• [5]Working together on Sheridan College.

• [6] Working together on Visual Arts Brampton.

• [7]Working together on Brampton Symphony

• [8]Davis and Fennel supported each other in the bid to save the Peel Regional Structure in Provincial Debates

• [9]...the better Tory candidate might have been Mayor Susan Fennell; but given the state of everything, I doubt she'd bite, at least not now (although she did run against Beaumier in the '93 Kim Campbell blowout). What Would Bill Davis Do?

The above is posted for Discussion to build a concensus

I will republish the above as best I can compromising on any valid points reverters have added, if any. I will also look for assistance to ensure this process is done correctly without all this reverting behaviour by people who don't like this information published for some reason.

I want a Political Ideology page for Susan Fennell because she is a public figure working in the same arena as Hazzel McCallion. Others also feel it is relevant to have such information about these types of individuals.

Discussion has also carried on in my talk page, but reverts without reasoning have been made on the article here just the same over my reasoned objections.WikiWoo 19:03, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

I have given you an incredible amount of reasoning as to why I have reverted your edits. You have come to conclusions based on the results of Google searches and have used the resultant Google search lists as the citation as proof that you are not doing original research. It is a preposterous way of trying to cite your own views. I have explained how original research and citing works and you come back with "that's ridiculous" without ever making the effort to understand that as ridiculous as you think it is, it's the way that the academic world, and Wikipedia, work. An article I used to work often on Freemasonry will show you how citation works. Statements are made, and references to the published works that those statements come from are given. Please, take a look at the article, note how many footnotes there are, and then, perhaps, read a sentence that contains a footnote and then go to the page the footnote directs you to. Then, look for the fact on that page that was referenced in the Freemasonry article. You'll find it. That is how referencing works. OzLawyer 19:10, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

• You have not commented on what you want changed in the Political Ideology Section.

All of it. It's all your opinion, without any respectable sources, and even if it wasn't, it's irrelevant. OzLawyer 22:13, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

• you seem intent on just vandalising my work. The Political Ideology page is a good addition. Other people in hear area of activity have one and she should have one too. There is a fact that she ran under Tory in 1993. I will rewrite more and post. Stop lying about the content of my work.22:37, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

I haven't lied about a single thing. I've explained how you are posting original research and pretending it is published information. That's it. OzLawyer 22:40, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

You still haven't deal with the political ideology section I am adding. If you don't have better information then my work should stand as the baseline. You are free look for other things to add to it. You deleting cited points on Susan Political activities is against Wiki policy and though you are doing vandalism with an air of legitimacy, it's still vandalism never the less.WikiWoo 00:26, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

She ran for Tory in 1993. This is a fact. I've referenced the Source of the "Fact" I am not quoting what anyone 'said". So lets start building a consensus on this one simple point of fact (this is not a view). She is a Tory by Ideology and associates herself with Torys, (yes, no, maybe?). What say you! WikiWoo 19:24, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

The claims of a close political association between Fennell and Davis would have to be supported with an credible source saying that. They are both from Brampton, so we would expect to see them both supporting community efforts. The claim seems plausible enough, but you need to find a source. The links to Google searches are pointless. If you want to make edits, it's up to you to find credible, citable sources, not just toss out a Google search and leave it to others. --Gary Will 01:54, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Changed one citation

The article cited about Susan Fennell coufounding the NWHL was a press release --- not normally considered the best of references. I found a CAAWS article that seems more credible. I don't think that her being a founding commissioner of the NWHL is in dispute, is it? I also reworded the sentence a bit to reflect that she was a founding commissioner of the NHWL (that's how all the sources I found phrased it) rather than co-founder of the NHWL (which could mean something slightly differnet). Osgoodelawyer, do you have any remaining objections to the article as currently written? WikiWoo, what about you? Are you satisfied with the way the article is currently written or is there additional material that you think should be here but which other editors dispute? I'll be glad to review any additional materal and the references for it, if either of you would like me to do so. Brian 15:47, 23 July 2006 (UTC)btball

I think your edits are spot-on. OzLawyer 18:08, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

• Brian, the article blends activities of a political nature and those that are outside of office such as the Women's Hockey League. I blieve these are separate areas, on in Office and Political and the other Outside of Office and non-political. This was the purpose of placing it in the Out-of Office Activities since she is Famous for Two separate things. One for being a Mayor and the other for being a founder of the Woman Hockey League of Canada. Arguably she could have two separate pages on Wiki as a notable person for the two accomplishments. I would like to distinguish these two separate accomplishement which deserve distinctions for her notoriousness.WikiWoo 19:07, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

It's a three-paragraph entry. One paragraph on political career, one on non-political achievements, one on personal details. We don't need separate subheads for every item. And, no, there won't be two bio pages for her. If Isaac Newton and Jesus can each get by with one bio page, I think we can accommodate Susan Fennell. --Gary Will 19:40, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Please note that WikiWoo was a sockpuppet. -- Zanimum 17:25, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

"As mayor"

Could we spread her involvement out among the terms in office, to represent which terms she became involved in what? -- Zanimum 19:08, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

This section gets more NPOV as it goes on, ultimately degrading into a list of accomplishments. Was it taken from a Fennell website bio? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.32.89.123 (talk) 04:33, 7 January 2009 (UTC)