Talk:Sensorimotor rhythm

Discrepancy between Frequencies Quoted

The top of the article lists SMR as typically being "7 to 11 Hz.[1]", whilst in the table below it's listed as "(12.5 – 15.5 Hz)". The boundaries are a bit up to contention and the first is referenced so I won't edit the article - but from what I've read general consensus is that SMR is higher than alpha and the first seems erroneous and off the top of my head I'd put it at roughly 12-16. 7-11 is normally well within Alpha.

Whatever is decided upon, the article is inconsistent in the range stated. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.255.144.222 (talk) 20:42, 27 August 2024 (UTC)

Mu and SMR

Citation is needed for saying that SMR is also known as Mu. I have good reason to think that this is not the case, but I am not certain and so will not correct it. I believe it is not the case because, although both originate in the motor cortex, SMR waves are from 12-15 Hz whereas Mu waves are from 8-12 Hz, in the alpha frequency range. Collin Stocks (talk) 05:06, 25 February 2008 (UTC)Collin Stocks

Dear Collin,

in the medical psychology community the terms SMR and mu-rhythm are used interchangingly. The same holds for the Brain-Computer Interface (BCI) community, where SMR desynchronization is exploited for control purposes. The analysis of SMR frequencies for the latter purpose shows that it nearly never exceeds 13 Hz, thus I adapted the frequency description. --Michael Tangermann (talk) 06:57, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

Neurofeedback is the correct keyword for the feedback training methods used to regulate SMR. I have removed the Biofeedback link as this appears too general. --Michael Tangermann (talk) 08:39, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

Due to the existance of two articles on the same (or depending on the point of view: very similar) articles, I propose to merge the article of sensorimotor rhythm with the article of mu rhythm and add a redirect instead --Michael Tangermann (talk) 09:00, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

Mu rhythm is not the same as the SMR since it has a different frequency band but more importantly I think that these two frequency bands have a different origin. That is the SMR, as the name implies reflects activity from the sensory motor cortex only but the Mu frequency reflects the activity of the Mirror neurons in the Left Inferior Frontal Gyrus. (J. Pineda, "The functional significance of mu rhythms: translating "seeing" and "hearing" into "doing"." Brain research reviews 50(2005), 57-68.

So yes, the SMR, Mu rhythm and even sleep spindles are alike in shape, location where they can be measured (that is C3, C4, Cz and the likes) but they, as we argue, reflect different processes.

So I would propose to change the first sentence so that we do not imply something that is not widely agreed on within the scientific community.

I am changing frequency description of SMR, that is not from 8 till 14 Hz but from 12 till 15 Hz. This according to Barry Sterman's own articles which describe the SMR frequency in cats for the first time (W. Wyrwicka and M. B. Sterman, “Instrumental conditioning of sensorimotor cortex eeg spindles in the waking cat,” Physiology and Behavior, vol. 3, 1968, pp. 703–707. ). Please If you the reader are going to change this, please give a proper argument.

About combining the pages on SMR with mu frequency, as long as there is no consensus on the differences between these two frequency bands I would not combine the two. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mckeuken (talk • contribs) 21:05, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

Graph concerns

I worked for 8+ years with the founder of EEG feedback at his lab at Langley Porter Institute, UCSF [1972-1980]. And, I attended the talk on SMR feedback for epilepsy in humans that Barry Stermann gave at UCSF in the 1970s. "EEG feedback" and "Neurotherapy" are synonyms, except the latter (and later) implies EEG feedback specifically for therapudic purposes. SMR was originally a narrow band centered around 14 Hz over the motor cortex ONLY! If it is not over the motor cortex (early work was over the Rolandic cortex), it cannot be Sensory MOTOR Rhythm. The SMR band tends to be defined as 13-15 Hz, with 12 and/or 16 Hz sometimes included. Recently, 12-15 Hz seems to be ues the most. Alpha is usually defined as 8-12 Hz, sometimes 8-13 Hz, and for some 7-12 Hz. Most of the early work with alpha (8-12 Hz) was done over the visual cortex (O1, Oz, O2) -- especially O1, because that is where Joe Kamiya did a big part of his work, and others wanted to follow suit to allow good comparisons. [His discovery research looked at: (1) operant conditoning [feedback] to learn discrimination, (2) learned discrimination leading to control, and (3) operant conditioning directly for control. Since then, most research has been in the third category.] Alpha is usually strongest over the visual cortex when eyes are closed. If not, one suspects some kind of disregulation. Mu rhythms pertain to alpha waves that are not purely sinusoidal in shape, but sharp on the top and rounded on the bottom like the letter mu. I cannot speak authoritatively about mu, but have the understanding that it is not limited to the motor cortex. (I will check on that.) Alpha can be found anywhere on the scalp, though it tends to be weaker as one moves forward from the visual cortex. There are of course individual differences.

I am concerned with graphs showing a small section of EEG where there is a transition from one alpha spindle to another, supposedly taken from the occipital region, and labelling that as "SMR". This is wrong -- there is no motor cortex in the occipital region!

Something is drastically wrong here.

James R. Johnston, Ph.D. Feb. 18, 2009 [I apologize for not knowing the correct procedure for making edits.]

SMR Frequency Range

I realize that there's been various edits in the history that deal with the range of frequencies for SMR, but it does seem to me from reading the cited reference, as well as many citations such as and . Based on this, I've changed it from 8-12 to 12-15Hz. ClintGoss (talk) 16:15, 12 June 2012 (UTC)