Talk:Samuel Smith (Dean of Christ Church)

Requested move 10 August 2019

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Moved as per the final non-struck options below - there is broad agreement on these. — Amakuru (talk) 21:26, 14 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

– Of these Samuel Smiths, three (all except the Canadian academic) were priests, and three (all except the prison chaplain) were educators: the disambiguators do not disambiguate clearly. LookLook36 (talk) 18:15, 10 August 2019 (UTC) --Relisting. — Amakuru (talk) 11:38, 19 August 2019 (UTC) --Relisting. Steel1943 (talk) 17:06, 5 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Samuel Smith (Dean of Christ Church, Oxford) is much clearer. Christ Church naturally goes to a vast disam page (never mind Christchurch and Christchurch (disambiguation)). Westminster, prison chaplain and Canadian academic are ok, but the article makes no mention of "Sam". Johnbod (talk) 02:05, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- @Johnbod: As the page for the office is Dean of Christ Church, this is probably the better form - amended above. The Canadian academic seems to have been known as "Sam Smith", but also sometimes as "W. A. Samuel Smith" (which was previously the page's title) - Google has the following numbers of hits:
  - "Sam Smith" "Athabasca University": 334
  - "Samuel Smith" "Athabasca University": 274 (total inflated by reflections of the current Wikipedia title, and by hits for "W. A." and "Walter Alvah" below)
  - "W. A. S. Smith" "Athabasca University": 113
  - "W. A. Samuel Smith" "Athabasca University": 104
  - "Walter Alvah Samuel Smith" "Athabasca University": 25.

All of these should be made redirects once the page has been moved. LookLook36 (talk) 07:45, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose as proposed. Move Samuel Smith (priest) to Samuel Smith (dean). Less wordy. Move Samuel Smith (educator) to Samuel Smith (schoolmaster). We use occupations as disambiguators for people, never locations or organisations. Agree with moving Samuel Smith (clergyman) to Samuel Smith (prison chaplain). Samuel Smith (academic) is a more complex one. Usually we'd use their exact field of study, such as Sam Smith (historian). But so far we don't seem to know what it was. -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:01, 14 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- Happy with Samuel Smith (schoolmaster), parallel with Samuel Butler (schoolmaster) and other pages. Amended above. LookLook36 (talk) 17:27, 14 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- Samuel Smith (dean) is problematic. It's likely to be ambiguous – a quick search online finds another dean. The general policy for ambiguous deans seems to be to use the title, e.g. William Cradock (Dean of St Patrick's), which was specifically moved from William Cradock (dean). There seems to be a general policy to disambiguate with either "(priest)" or a specific office, but never "(dean)" – perhaps @DBD: might clarify. LookLook36 (talk) 17:27, 14 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  - Mostly agree Ok great. I do this a lot; hold my ~~beer~~ G&T. Samuel Smith (priest) is ambiguous to the other priests; per WP:NCWC we never dab by part of a job title — it's either order (deacon, priest, bishop) or full job title of his most senior/recent post, so (Dean of Christ Church) 'tis. Again, I suppose they're all (educator)s, so I would move him to (Headermaster of Westminster School), although maybe schoolmaster suits too. The Canadian is noted as a Dean of faculty and a President of a uni, but not actually as an academic per se; I'd put him at another form of his name (if there is another form which seems similarly or more common) or dab with (President of Athabasca University). I'd call "prison chaplain" a descriptive phrase rather than an incomplete job title, so I'd put the clergyman (we NEVER use this, per WP:NCWC) there. I'd then fix all of the links to the current locations and redirect all of them to Samuel Smith, since they are all ambiguous. DBD 12:36, 15 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  - Looking a bit further, the Canadian's previous is probably his common name (at least or moreso than Samuel Smith). Move back. DBD 12:51, 15 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    - I'm guessing that, given his later jobs, the Canadian did start off as an ordinary academic in a specific field, as most modern university administrators do. Even for people known as heads of universities, we usually disambiguate them using their actual academic field (historian, chemist, geographer, etc), not their job title later on. -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:36, 15 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
      - (psychologist)? [1] DBD 09:10, 16 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
        Good find. Sam Smith (psychologist) then. -- Necrothesp (talk) 10:17, 16 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
For the Canadian academic, the choice now seems to be between W. A. Samuel Smith and Sam Smith (psychologist). I'm not strongly against either of these, but (while Sam seems to be more common overall) I'd make a case for the initials, based on usage by academic websites. LookLook36 (talk) 21:15, 16 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- All contributors to this discussion (DBD—Necrothesp—Johnbod—Amakuru—Steel1943) This discussion appears to have gone dormant, I see that it has now been relisted twice without further comment. Can we get it going again? Unless there are further objections, I think we now have consensus on titles for three of the pages: Samuel Smith (Dean of Christ Church), Samuel Smith (schoolmaster), Samuel Smith (prison chaplain). (Is partial closure possible?) Only the Canadian academic (or psychologist, or W. A. Samuel) remains. LookLook36 (talk) 18:20, 5 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  - Happy with the 3 you list; prefer Sam Smith (psychologist) if "Sam" is verified. Johnbod (talk) 18:42, 5 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    - It is, according to his University of Lethbridge profile. LookLook36 (talk) 18:51, 5 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    - All fine with me. -- Necrothesp (talk) 07:50, 6 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    - This has my assent. DBD 10:32, 6 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support 1st as a WP:PDAB since all but the last are also referred to as priests, no comment on the others. Crouch, Swale (talk) 08:20, 6 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.