Talk:Samantha Smith/Archive 1

Archive 1

Murdered by US authorities?

Any mention, myth or not?

-G —Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.117.158.83 (talk) 05:28, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

RE:'Murdered by US Authorities'

I have often wondered this myself; It wouldn't surprise me if it was true. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.32.156.128 (talk) 23:02, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

I find your suggestion to include conspiracy theories of her death in a commercial airliner was from being shot down as ludicruous. I don't believe nor any sane or right-thinking person feels the same way on Samantha Smith was a victim of a military cover-up on a theorotical plans for war against the USSR in the late 1980s (in which it never occurred). What she did was to represent the American public's concerns on whether a nuclear war will occur at the time, and nobody not the Americans, Soviets or Europeans for that matter, wanted a nuclear war to destroy civilization and the earth. She was courageous to write a letter to Andropov and she might influenced the Soviet Communist regime to avert any nuclear war plans. When Gorbachev took office to replace the previous two ailing leaders, he felt the USA and USSR does not need to take out their anger over political/ideological differences between the two countries, and perhaps we should write to him on if Samantha Smith who died before he taken office 4 mos. later in 1985, had a minor influence in his diplomatic decision-making in his Soviet-era presidency. + 71.102.2.206 (talk) 22:52, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

I don't believe it was a political assassination, but the first thing that occurred to me when I heard the news (on Paul Harvey -- "Remember Samantha Smith? She is dead.") was that she had worked with Robert Wagner. People associated with him tend to, well, die in accidents. --Bluejay Young (talk) 05:59, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

Samantha's photo

This is actually an altered original image made by Patrick Carkin (see his article [1]). I think, that original image should be uploaded - movie sequence-style images are not a good decision for main images in biographical articles. See more details on that image's talk page . Cmapm 16:33, 28 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Thanks to a man, who fixed this. Cmapm 14:20, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Featured article candidate?

Is it a time to make it a Featured article candidate? In my view, it more or less conforms to the main criteria for the Featured article already. What do you think, folks? Cmapm 10:11, 3 Apr 2005 (UTC)

New Samantha Smith Website

[[2]] Visit the website and share your thoughts and memories of Samantha.

Typo in letter by Andropov?

The letter contains

"I hope that you known about this from your history lessons in school."

Did the original letter contain the same? Jan van Male 16:02, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I don't know, where the text of the letter was taken from. In online sources known for myself (e.g. [3]) the typo is present too. Unfortunately, I can't "reach" books mentioned in the References section or other printed sources to verify this. Cmapm 16:55, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I've just found out, that the letter in the article is not the original letter from Andropov - the sense is the same, nothing seems to be omitted or added, but its syntax differs. However, this letter is cited by solid sources, therefore it is not a hoax. My guess for this is that it is a translated back to English Russian text of this letter from Pravda. Few excerpts from the original letter (the image is "cut" from the right side a bit, however) can be found here [4]. And what approves that namely these excerpts are from the original is a photo of Samantha with this letter in her hand [5] - letters there are nearly invisible, but by lengths of the words your can see, that it is true. I think, that the original letter in English can be found in Samantha's book, if someone will be so lucky to get it, please, place here the original letter! Cmapm 22:39, 7 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Time magazine?

The following my latest addition

Later Samantha's mother told, how all the story began exactly. After Andropov became the Soviet leader the main American newspapers and magazines had his portrait on their covers and leading articles dedicated to him with rather negative view on this event and expectations of new threats to the world. One of them met Samantha's eyes. Her question was: if all people are so afraid of him, why no one writes a letter, asking whether he wants to have a war or not? Her mother replied: "Why don't you?"

is a summary of an excerpt from Jane Smith's interview, which she gave, during her visit to Artek in 2000 as a honorary guest, to one of Russian newspapers [6]. There is said concretely: it was the "Times" (not concreticized, whether newspaper or magazine) with Andropov's portrait on its cover, that met Samantha's eyes. However "The Times" is UK newspaper and the word cover (well, at least its Russian equivalent) is not generally used for newspapers, rather it is for magazines. Therefore, my guess is that it was a pretty popular in the USA at that time "Time" magazine and, guessing further, it may well be its November 22 1982 issue with the leading article "A Mix of Caution and Opportunism " and Andropov's photo on its cover with the caption: "Andropov Takes Command" [7]. Cmapm 00:01, 6 Apr 2005 (UTC)

The first my guess was true: I've just found Samantha's mother's another interview as of August 5 2004 in another Russian newspaper, where Jane Smith says it was "Time" magazine (in Russian: журнал "Тайм") with Andropov's portrait on its cover [8]. I'll include this info into the article in a while. Cmapm 13:38, 6 Apr 2005 (UTC)

There were no other Time issues with Andropov's portrait on their covers between October 1982 and January 1983. Therefore, all my guesses proved to be true. Cmapm 13:48, 6 Apr 2005 (UTC)

SamanthaSmith.info has taken the position that it was in fact the Nov 22, 1982 issue. See:

http://www.samanthasmith.info/timenov22-1982.htm Dspark76 (talk) 12:50, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

Lime Street

Image:Limestreet.jpg

I have this and am not sure where to put it. PMA 15:09, 7 Apr 2005 (UTC)

What a nice image! But... There always are two problems: the source and copyright status. For example, at the present I have 19 nice images of Samantha, including that of faximile "I stand for peace", written by her hand. But for all of them either the source is unknown or copyright status is not more than "Fair use". But one "Fair use" image is already present, it would be good, if the second image should be {{PD}} one. And a personal question:where did you get this image from? May be you even can point out, where Lime street (4 episodes, it seems) in VHS or DVD format could be found? Cmapm 15:50, 7 Apr 2005 (UTC)

---

You have to love the red-white thing Sam is wearing - so mid-1980s fashion :) Don't know where to get copies of the show though. Anyway i enquired on a forum at TV Tome and got this:

Originally the plan was to continue the series without Samantha. But after a few more episodes were shot it became clear it wasn't going to work. So ultimately the series did end production because of her death, but it took those additional episodes without her to convince everyone that going on was not a wise decision. Actually the plan was to add another daughter. Not to recast Samantha's part, however. Her character, Elizabeth, was going to go off to live with her mother in Paris, while another daughter who'd been living with the mother was then going to move back to Virginia with her father. The characters name was going to be Libby, and several scripts were written with the character but never filmed.

By the way isn't Libby one of the many nicknames for Elizabeth? PMA 16:04, 7 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Thanks! And it seems, I found where this image should fit best: Lime Street article (I'll start it in the future, if no one will). But only if its source and CP status will be clarified. Cmapm 16:15, 7 Apr 2005 (UTC)

In tribute (USSR)

The only reference to a rose named after her that I've found is Samantha's bio at the IMDB [9]. In contrast, at least two references [10], [11], second of them with a photo, are to the dahlia, named after Samantha Smith. As the color of that cultivar of dahlia is rose, there is a possibility, that the dahlia was confused with the rose, so, I'll replace "roses" with "dahlias". I'll add a vessel, named after her as well, an English reference to this fact is [12], there are also many Russian references to it, the ship is the Ukrainian property at the present. 212.199.249.206 09:26, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC) (aka Cmapm)

I remember a tree planted as a tribute to Samantha in my school yard in Vladikavkaz. The tree is still there, by the entrance of the school #7. I believe, similar things happened in really many places. - Slavik IVANOV 10:58, 18 May 2005 (UTC)

Great article...

But wouldn't it have made more sense to lobby for it to be Featured Article on Samantha Smith Day (first Monday in June)? Ral315

It seems, that generally, FA appearance on the Main Page usually is not bound to any specific date, I think it is a good policy by wiki admins. Actually, time proved, that this article was pretty raw, when I proposed to nominate it as a FA candidate and in that time I thought it would never be even featured. But thanks to the people, who edited/copyedited the article, it undergone major work since then and finally became featured and even "Main Paged" one. Cmapm 11:11, 11 May 2005 (UTC)

I have deleted the rubbish posted in this page. It is really offensive.

• Not nearly as offensive as your lack of couth in unilaterally deleting an article voted by Wikipedia editors as a Featured Article. Fortunately, deleted material is readily restored. Please take some time to learn the protocols here before you go off half-cocked again. Denni☯ 01:47, 2005 May 10 (UTC)

Actually Denni, the anon removed a highly offensive comment which a previous editor had replaced the page with. While it would have been preferable for the anon to have reverted to a good page, they should be commended for helping.-gadfium 01:51, 10 May 2005 (UTC)

This is an exquisitely done Article! Congratulations to all who created it. -- Michael David (talk) 16:11, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Why TV?

I was just wondering if someone had run across any info on why S.S. made the move to TV but didn't include it in the article for whatever reason. She could have made good money from appearances at peace rallies and speaking tours and such, why do a TV show? Was this something that she wanted to do from the start or was it just some producer's idea to draw more viewers to the show? Dismas 06:24, 10 May 2005 (UTC)

I've seen somewhere, that she wanted to become both veterinary surgeon and ballet-dancer before the "Journey", but after it her preference changed in favor of an actress's career. I'll say more on this, when I find that source again. Cmapm 11:11, 11 May 2005 (UTC)

Irina Tarnopolsky?

Apparently a Soviet child, inspired by Samantha Smith, wrote to Andropov to ask for her father's release from the gulag, but without sucess. Is this relevant to the article?

http://www.winchesterstar.com/TheWinchesterStar/030213/Opinion_fault.asp https://www.nationalreview.com/comment/comment-charen021003.asp Rast 09:27, May 10, 2005 (UTC)

Not really? --Oldak Quill 22:57, 10 May 2005 (UTC)

It seems, that a "root" of this is a book “Useful Idiots: How Liberals Got it Wrong in the Cold War and Still Blame America First,” by Mrs. Mona Charen. In my view, an extreme POV is present even in its title and a "useful idiot" is rather Mrs. Mona Charen herself. However, as (citing Andropov's letter) Samantha's letter was among "many others that have reached me [Andropov] recently from your country [USA] and from other countries around the world", Irina Tarnopolsky could well write her letter indeed. Again, in my view, if someone will find more info about her (including quotes from her letter), an article about Irina Tarnopolsky should be created and/or a mention of her should probably be present here. Cmapm 11:25, 11 May 2005 (UTC)

Troll At Work?

I looked at this article out of curiosity and noticed that some troll had added "pooped in her pants" to the Early Years section.

I went in to edit it, and found it didn't exist. I went back to the standard view, and the text was there again. Not sure how this is being done - VB script maybe, or some exploit of a flaw.

I have created a PDF of the page in case anyone else DOESN'T see the same effect...

It's a shame when the morons feel the need to deface a valuable resource like Wikipedia, IMHO.

By the time you loaded the editable version the vandalism was probably removed. When you refer back to the final product you are looking at the previous cached version. If you use IE press Ctrl + F5 --Oldak Quill 22:59, 10 May 2005 (UTC)

End of the Cold War

She would have lived to see the end of the Cold War. In addition, she would have become the U.S. ambassador to Russia. - John V--Ed Telerionus 17:41, 10 May 2005 (UTC)

Katya Lycheva

What about Катя Лычева (Katya Lychova or Lycheva)? She has been the Soviet child-ambassador in the 1980s, and I remember how popular she was here, in USSR. I think she's worth mentioning in this article, but, alas, I can't do it myself. - Slavik IVANOV 10:58, 18 May 2005 (UTC)

Yes, she was popular, but as I know, the peak of her popularity was shortly after Samantha's death (1986-1987 ??). She was a sort of a "Soviet answer" to the USA on Samantha's mission. Katya went to the USA (I have a photo of her and Ronald Reagan), starred in the Russian film for children.

However, it seems, that she was not as popular in the USSR as Samantha (I don't know for the USA). There is also some controversy concerning her (rumours about high-ranking parents, some unpleasant memoirs of those, who were in Artek together with her concerning her haughty character). Some people consider her "pale shadow" of Samantha.

It would be great to create a separate article about her and place here a link. While it does not exist, I could add some info about her here , but my English is too bad for a Featured Article :-( Cmapm 12:12, 18 May 2005 (UTC)

Peace icon

I know many of her friends don't like her use by the peace movement - stressing that she was just an ordinary kid - but then again so was Anne Frank. how is Samantha's use as an icon by the peace movement any less noble than the use of Anne by the anti-bigotry movement?

Being an icon for the peace movement isn't such a bad legacy. PMA 02:23, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

Or the late leukamia-stricken 9-year old boy (forgot his name at the moment) founded Kids to Save the Planet Earth, an environmental movement in the late 1980's (1989?) based in Minneapolis-St Paul, Minn. would later became national and was sponsored by Target Stores, Inc. for the 20th Earth Day celebrations in 1990. This was another preteen child involved in ecological activism when at the time became the issue de jour to the general public in the early 1990's. The organization died out in the later half of the decade, while the 25th Earth Day anniversary was overshadowed by the Oklahoma City Murrah Building bombing and the 30th Earth Day events was forgotten by the national mourning of Columbine School shootings. Once again, we should pay close attention like children of the current time on dire issues that matter to us all and children are conscious enough as they shall inherit the earth we leave behind for them. + 71.102.2.206 (talk) 23:00, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Speculations

I removed the following excerpt until sources are cited (I remember, that there were such accusations, but can't cite them so far): Many speculations regarding the cause of the accident circulated afterwards — some said it was organized by the CIA while others accused the KGB, arguing that Smith's growing popularity could affect some important political or military decisions in either country. Cmapm 17:35, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

"I have a friend who just got back from the Soviet Union, and told me the people there are hungry for information about the West. He was asked about many things, but I will give you two examples that are very revealing about life in the Soviet Union. The first question he was asked was if we had exploding television sets. You see, they have a problem with the picture tubes on color television sets, and many are exploding. They assumed we must be having problems with them too. The other question he was asked often was why the CIA had killed Samantha Smith, the little girl who visited the Soviet Union a few years ago; their propaganda is very effective." -- Victor Belenko, MiG-25 fighter pilot who defected in 1976 - "Defense Electronics", Vol 20, No. 6, pg. 100

Thank you for the quote! I'll try to find the second part, KGB accusations, in the nearest future. I hope, we'll get that excerpt included into the article again one day... Cmapm 14:58, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

Exploding TVs??? I don't think Belenko is a credible source.198.105.45.121 20:54, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

Old cathode tubes (ones used in old, non-LCD TV) had a tendency to overheat and "implode" when their glass parts weakened. It was solved quite quickly by making them more heat resistant and by improving their constructions. This sentence actually make him more credible because it's about a well known case of failure of early TVs.--Revth 08:53, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Here's one from less than a month after she died - http://groups.google.com.au/group/net.politics/msg/fed3e2a99de79a04?dmode=source&hl=en

PMA 10:43, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for your help! I didn't find even such quotes, but unfortunately, posts are not considered to be reliable sources. I was not able to find any other accusations of KGB, it was surprisingly difficult. It would be greatly appreciated, if someone finds ones. Cmapm 11:28, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

Heres the quote about the CIA and exploding TV's from the New York Times, December 1987:

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9B0DEFD8103EF934A35751C1A961948260&scp=54

"We were asked questions like: Why did the C.I.A. kill Samantha Smith? Does everyone in the United States have a gun? How often do American televisions explode?"

Dspark76 (talk) 12:46, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

Free image

In order to use a non-free image, all the criteria in WP:NFCC must be satisfied. Please debate carefully when you are discussing the choice of images for the article, and avoid edit warring. --Hroðulf (or Hrothulf) (Talk) 21:09, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

Please, please, please discuss on talk pages. Right or wrong, WP:NFCC is policy, and a discussion will help everyone to interpret and understand its implications for this article. An edit war won't. --Hroðulf (or Hrothulf) (Talk) 13:25, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

For archival purposes, I copied the following text regarding the removal of the main image from http://en.wiki.x.io/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Fasach_Nua&oldid=224306952#Samantha_Smith Dspark76 (talk) 10:39, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

Using a stamp to represent her in the infobox is not a good solution. We need a proper picture in the box. Paul Melville Austin (talk) 11:09, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

Why is it not a good substitute, what is the function of the image? Fasach Nua (talk) 11:12, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

That's being unhelpful and unnecessarily argumentative. We are visually oriented creatures - its a big part of how we learn and interpret the world around us. A good quality image is clearly to be perferred over a poor one. Pursue your goals within the rules and show other editors some respect by allowing them their views instead of badgering them with that kind of remark. Wiggy! (talk) 16:51, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

What is unhelpful about that? We need fair use rationales, how else are we to justify the image use, I see this image as something to show what she looks like, Fut.Perf. thinks it is to show personality, and we could both be wrong. If we knew the purpose, we could know if it qualifies as fair use, and we might be able to find an alternative content to convey this information. To work blind dealing with images is an impossibility, and not something I am prepared to do. Asking a question is not badgering, the question is demanded by policy, and as for respecting someones views, I think the simple fact I asked for their views clealy demonstrates that I do respect them. Fasach Nua (talk) 07:09, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

Because we must be mindful of those who have poor eyesight. A stamp is hardly appropriate for an encyclopedic biography infobox. --Dragon695 (talk) 16:17, 7 July 2008 (UTC) The stamp did not display correctly, but it is used later on in the article. Still, it is better to have a real image in the infobox. --Dragon695 (talk) 16:27, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

Why is that? Fasach Nua (talk) 07:09, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

Honestly, I would tend to let this one pass. A live photograph showing her in a vivid scene like that is really more informative than the highly stylized drawing on the postage stamp; it conveys a much more lively impression of her personality and the publicity impact it had. For me, that's significant contribution enough to the article. And given the nature of the source website I don't see problems along the other NFCs, like, no big danger of economic competition and so on. By the way, has anyone tried asking that foundation if they'd be willing to release one under a free license? Fut.Perf. ☼ 18:21, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

I think it is a slippery slope, but I would like to see a FU rationale, and then a better informed discussion could ensue. The Soviet Union had very liberal policy regarding copyright, as does the US Federal government, both of whom I would expect to have images of her, there will be free images out there, if the stamp is unacceptable. The Bulgarian Wikipedia uses bg:Картинка:Samantha_Smith_portrait.jpg. Fasach Nua (talk) 07:23, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

Fut.Perf. had an excellent point about requesting an image. If no one's tried this yet, I wrote a draft request at User:Jh12/Draft6. Please let me know if it's all right. Thanks, --Jh12 (talk) 03:55, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

RE: 'stockpiles on earth' or 'stockpiles on Earth'

The article refers ([9] "Yuri Andropov's Response"), among others, to http://www.samanthasmith.info/russion_versionpg1.htm - there is: "уничтожению всех его запасов на Землe" (on Earth), not: "уничтожению всех его запасов на земле" (on earth); if there should be: "the abolition of all the stockpiles on earth" what about stockpiles (e.g.) at sea?

Tearapart (talk) 21:11, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

Public opinion in USSR - this is false

The source listed says nothing about public opinion in USSR. It says: "The Soviet leader's letter, which was released by the Soviet news agency TASS last week, appeared to be part of a broader effort by the Kremlin to undercut the Reagan Administration's plans to launch an extensive research and development effort to produce new weapons aimed at destroying offensive warheads and enemy satellites in space." Thus Wikipedia entry is misleading. It was public opinion in US which contributed. Russia simply had already problems keeping up arms race, and this was a good opportunity to start talking about reducing nuclear arsenals. In fact public opinion as such never existed in communistic block before 1989. Such statements printed in press has been carefully crafted and never been published unless there was political will to do so. Public opinion has nothing to do with this. I know what i'm saying, i'm from Poland. Rekrutacja (talk) 19:57, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

Why is the discussion history on this page blank?

Was it deleted?--Fishburd (talk) 02:54, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

Old discussions from Talk pages are normally archived, not deleted (unless not related to article improvement). See discussion archives for this article (see above "Archives:1"). Msw1002 (talk) 03:11, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

I never knew about the archives. Thanks! --Fishburd (talk) 00:03, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

Eulogy

Why is Reagan's eulogy of Samantha quoted directly, but Gorbachev's isn't? Paul Austin (talk) 10:18, 7 June 2011 (UTC)

Assassinated?

Any word if she was killed on purpose due to her political outreach? Considering it was the Reagan-era and its slanted Cold War values.

-G — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.67.112.254 (talk) 21:56, 7 July 2011 (UTC)

Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Samantha Smith/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

needs inline citations and lead should conform to WP:LEAD --plange 20:38, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Last edited at 20:39, 24 September 2006 (UTC). Substituted at 15:44, 1 May 2016 (UTC)