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Archive 1Archive 2

Move to Romanov Empire

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: not moved. Early close per WP:SNOW. -- BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 18:41, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

Russian Empire → Romanov Empire – The name "Russian Empire" is not exclusive to the Romanov dynasty, there have been Russian states in history that could considered "empires" (such as Kievan Rus', the Grand Duchy of Moscow, the Tsardom of Russia, the Soviet Union, or even the current Russian Federation). Charles Essie (talk) 21:35, 9 February 2014 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Stop removing the map! This is getting ridiculous!

I am putting the orthographic map back onto the infobox! There are plenty of sources that prove the accuracy of that map! This is starting to come off as trolling and it needs to stop! Kirby (talk) 05:31, 27 March 2014 (UTC)

Czar as White Tara

The Czars of the Romanov Dynasty were recognized as reincarnations of the White Tara by the Buryats.

http://books.google.com/books?id=MqXnOBX4dREC&pg=PA23#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=rdSnsngNLUsC&pg=PA189#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=OTFjMoAUfcgC&pg=PA30#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=zCdoje8i8NMC&pg=PA103#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=p4NJbN1BDzoC&pg=PA115#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=9aNBAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA299#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=jqRDAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA299#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=8aanmN8DXIcC&pg=PA22#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=gPRnyfM4WMMC&pg=PA418#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=SwX7ifWyI_QC&pg=PA66#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=Ssv-GONnxTsC&pg=PA237#v=onepage&q&f=false

Rajmaan (talk) 02:35, 8 May 2014 (UTC)

Changed "Great war" to "First world war" to avoid confusion with International readers

RomanK79 (talk) 21:56, 27 June 2014 (UTC)


What would have saved The Russian Empire and what would have saved it from falling to the Communists!

Now I know that this is not a forum and I am not trolling here, but I have to address this, we all know that the Russian Empire was the most powerful Russian state in history and was the 3rd largest empire by land mass, but am I right when I say that the one thing that would have saved the Russian Empire from collapsing would have been the POTATO, given that it grows in the worst of conditions and if the Russians were to have had that, they could have exploited it and thus would have survived World War I. Am I wrong? Keeby101 (talk) 22:05, 15 July 2013 (UTC)

This is just my opinion--it might have helped a tiny bit, but the problems that led to the collapse of the Russian Empire were far beyond the scope of food supply. Questions of political corruption, unrealized hopes and dreams (especially of the peasantry, but also of the middle classes), military disasters, an ineffectual Tsar, allegations involving Rasputin and the Empress, and a host of other difficulties played a much larger role. If nothing else, having a dependable food source (potatoes) definitely couldn't have hurt. It might not have helped much, but it couldn't have hurt. But that's just my opinion, and you know what they say about those... - Ecjmartin (talk) 23:01, 15 July 2013 (UTC)
Guys, the Romanov Empire was not the most powerful Russian state in history, that honor goes to the Soviet Union! Charles Essie (talk) 21:35, 12 December 2013 (UTC)
Wrong, the Soviet Union was weak compared to the Russian Empire! Had it not been for the Russian winter in 1943, the Sovier Union would have fallen. On top of that, the Russian Empire lasted for 400+ years and was completely stable until the assassination of Tsar Alexander II. Whereas the Soviet Union fell apart completely in a matter of 70 years. In fact, had Alexander II not been assassinated by those revolutionary terrorists, the Russian Empire would have become a constitutional monarchy. In other words, the honor goes to the Imperial Russian Empire! Keeby101 (talk) 07:18, 13 December 2013 (UTC)

Then again, we are comparing two Russian States from two different eras. :) Keeby101 (talk) 07:18, 13 December 2013 (UTC)

On a side note: The Russian Empire could have won the Crimean War btw. Had they prolonged the war to the point to where it would have become too costly for France and Britain (to which it almost did), then Russia would have won that war and with that, Alaska would probably be part of Russia today along with California, most of the middle east, all of northern China and nearly all of Eastern Europe.

I'm being totally serious when saying this! I researched all of this! Tsar Nicholas I was ignorant for not prolonging the Crimean War. Keeby101 (talk) 07:18, 13 December 2013 (UTC)

Well, you could use your research and sources to improve the article on the Crimean War. The section on the "End of the war" is underdeveloped and there is no explanation on how peace was achieved. Dimadick (talk) 10:03, 13 December 2013 (UTC)

The term "Falling to communism" is not even close to neutral writing. Also, are you people seriously comparing the Russian Empire to the Soviet Union? as much as i respect the Russian Empire, the Soviet Union would've completely obliterated them. RomanK79 (talk) 22:03, 27 June 2014 (UTC)

Economics, table in section 6.1

The top line sums to c 160%. Should the 81.2 be 18.2? 217.43.35.208 (talk) 15:54, 29 August 2015 (UTC)

Panorama Of Moscow 1867

Can someone with the skills reformat this panorama so it does not mess up the formatting when the Print to PDF tool is used. It is a wonderful graphic but perhaps a small crop with a link to the full version would be better. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.249.23.17 (talk) 19:31, 5 September 2015 (UTC)

Citations

There seems to be a lack of citations throughout the article. For example "Peter I the Great (1672–1725) introduced autocracy in Russia and played a major role in introducing his country to the European state system. ". Where is the source? Juicebaby (talk) 16:51, 20 March 2016 (UTC)

see footnotes 6-7-8 = all major RS. the lede summarizes the main text and does not normally use foornotes., Rjensen (talk) 20:27, 20 March 2016 (UTC)

Great Game

The "Great Game" section incorrectly states that unspecified contemporaneous "observers" referred to the Russian-British rivalry in India et al. as The Great Game. As the article explains, while that phrase was used in private communications by some of the participants, there's no evidence that it was used by others until after the rivalry was effectively over. 2600:100C:B20B:6E61:C06:38CB:CF81:1CE7 (talk) 20:45, 2 June 2017 (UTC)

Population numbers

Wow! I had no idea the population of the Russian Empire was so huge! 181, 000, 000 people! Damn! No wander we were third in the world, after only China and India! --SergeiXXX 03:39, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

There was no India at the time, it was part of the British Empire, just like various populous yet underdeveloped Central Asian states were part of the Russian Empire. Less than a half of these 181,000,000 people were Russian, Ukrainian, or Belarusian. --Humanophage (talk) 01:55, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

The claimed population is too high. I've marked it as dubious. Most sources put it closer to 170m including Finland. McEvedy and Jones put it at 170m in 1914. (Atlas of World Population History, p. 82.)173.66.5.216 (talk) 00:38, 6 June 2017 (UTC)

Good thinking. I noticed it wasn't even sourced to anywhere, so I went a step further and removed it altogether (and then replaced it with the figure from the 1897 census). I left a message on your talk page about it. TompaDompa (talk) 01:10, 6 June 2017 (UTC)

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Discussion at Talk:Seltso (disambiguation)#Definition of "seltso"

You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:Seltso (disambiguation)#Definition of "seltso". Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 06:33, 12 August 2017 (UTC)

@Shhhnotsoloud: I've responded on the relevant talk page. Cheers! --Iryna Harpy (talk) 03:31, 14 August 2017 (UTC)

Which flag image to use

Stop edit warring over this; discuss it here on the talk page, form a consensus, and adopt that, please. fish&karate 09:53, 17 November 2017 (UTC)

And if I keep seeing rollback being used for a content dispute, with no explanation on either the edit summary or on the talk page of the editor (even IP editors) whose edit you rolled back, I'm going to start blocking people. fish&karate 09:54, 17 November 2017 (UTC)
@Fish and karate: Please see this revert. If you noticed, I changed the flag image back to the File:Flag of Russia (1696-1917).svg. Another user, also had reverted the IP before my reverts. The IP kept changing it to File:Flag of Russia.svg. If you read the article, this empire lasted until 1917. So, I assumed that the flag of the empire could not possibly be the current flag of Russia, since there are two distinct versions of the image of the flag, one for 1917 and one after 1917. The same IP 73.253.226.141 kept changing other flags in other articles from the correct Russian Empire era to the current Russian state, so I thought that was a clear case of POV-driven vandalism. I thought that the IP was anachronistically changing flags in this and other articles from the correct time of the Empire to the modern state, so I rolled it back to what I thought was the correct era. I have no canine in this fight. In good faith, I thought I was reverting vandalism of the flag image, given the time that the Russian empire ended. But since I am not an expert in this area, there may have been hidden historical reasons I may have missed. Given your reaction, I will unwatch this article and disengage completely from this topic area. Dr. K. 10:58, 17 November 2017 (UTC)
If someone who is an expert in this area could comment it would be appreciated. You don't need to disengage completely, just use your rollback privileges appropriately. fish&karate 13:41, 17 November 2017 (UTC)
As I explained above, I already did. But given your threats above, there is no option but to opt out of this swamp. Dr. K. 22:15, 17 November 2017 (UTC)
For what it's worth, I'll note that the file description page of File:Flag of Russia (1696-1917).svg over at the Commons states at the top: This file has been superseded by File:Flag of Russia.svg. It is recommended to use the other file. On the other hand, the color scheme of this file is clearly different and the filename clearly indicates the time frame in which this empire was still extant. I'm not an expert at all in this field, so I would request further input here. Was there this significant difference in color scheme between the historical flag and the current flag, or are they identical? Mz7 (talk) 02:30, 18 November 2017 (UTC)
@Mz7: I am also not even remotely an expert on this obscure field, but according to the article Flag of Russia, both the 1696-1917 version and the current flag are supposed to be identical. But I agree with your observation that the two files have different colour schemes. Dr. K. 06:47, 18 November 2017 (UTC)
The flags are indeed supposed to be fully identical, see Flag of Russia.--Ymblanter (talk) 16:38, 18 November 2017 (UTC)

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Today part of

Regarding this edit, by KATMAKROFAN: This recommendation has been applied widely on Empire pages (e.g, Roman, Byzantine, Spanish, and many others). The parameter tends to generate disputes over whether small territories held for short periods should be included (see, e.g., Talk:Kievan_Rus'#Part_of_todays_Poland_would_be_part_of_Kievan_Rus'). The lists tend to be in constant flux, shuffling, adding, removing. And they add little value. The parameter has been removed at least three times in the past for the same reason. So I continue to support removing the parameter. Laszlo Panaflex (talk) 16:15, 29 January 2018 (UTC)

This list has already been altered three times in two weeks, twice without explanation. As I said, these lists merely become a lightning rod for frequent changes and disputes, while adding little to the page. The list was removed three times last year to prevent these random drive-bys (by an editor other than me). So, KATMAKROFAN, you imposed this list on the page, will you now maintain it? Or is that up to those who edit the page in an on-going manner to deal with, even though some do not want the list here to begin with? To wit, why did you include North Korea, which has now been removed? Why didn't you include Turkey and Iran, which have now been added? Does it matter what is on the list? Is that up to people who don't want the list here to deal with? Or are we just supposed to ignore the random, frequent, and unexplained changes the list generates? Laszlo Panaflex (talk) 15:54, 12 February 2018 (UTC)

Value specified for "continent" does not comply

This is shown at the bottom of the infobox. The current value is "Eurasia, North America" which on the surface seems to comply with the guidelines, but clearly it doesn't work. I tried a few different combinations, including listing the three continents in alphabetical order, like it says to do, but it doesn't work. It seems like since it doesn't comply, the article is not added to the relevant categories, which is not great. The simple solution would be to remove North America. I didn't check the history thoroughly, but I'm guessing that is how it used to be. Any suggestions on how to handle this? Is that a good solution even though it's technically incorrect, or is there something else that could be done, maybe something I'm missing? 94.255.129.101 (talk) 00:22, 28 January 2018 (UTC)

I tried multiple combinations. I am of the opinion that the template itself is bad, not being able to accept 3 continents, even if 2 of them are combined as "Eurasia".2601:243:0:ABE7:EDF6:8FDF:A675:7C9E (talk) 08:57, 25 May 2018 (UTC)

Chronology of the Russian Empire

Please help create the Chronology of the Russian Empire. Fjgdh5 (talk) 22:13, 12 February 2019 (UTC)\~\~~

Nomination of Portal:Russian Empire for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether Portal:Russian Empire is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The page will be discussed at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Portal:Russian Empire until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the page during the discussion, including to improve the page to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the deletion notice from the top of the page. North America1000 07:11, 23 April 2019 (UTC)

Infobox (History)

Many events took place after the year 1721, events like as in the "Napoleonic Wars" and the "Russo-Turkish Wars" (which particularly helped shape modernity in favour of Christiandom).

So I'm proposing an expansion to the list of events that are in the history section of the infobox. Re3st567 (talk) 12:48, 22 August 2019 (UTC)\\\12:48, 22 August 2019 (UTC)

Wrong Flag! Wow!

The article has been hanging the wrong wrong flag for 14 years, probably, or 20. Wrong. I'm shocked by this. Avedon (talk) 07:47, 3 October 2020 (UTC)

@Аведон: http://www.vexillographia.ru/russia/Empire.htm --Havsjö (talk) 10:34, 3 October 2020 (UTC)
I'm sure this is an unauthorized source - it looks like a fan site. When it comes to the Russian Empire (1612-1917), which was ruled by the monarchs of the Romanov dynasty for all these 300 years, then during the period described in the article, the flag of the Empire was black-yellow-white (top-down). 1) https://www.rusempire.ru/rossijskaya-imperiya/simvoly-rossijskoj-imperii/424-flag-rossijskoj-imperii.html 2) and see sources in http://ru.wiki.x.io/wiki/%D0%A7%D1%91%D1%80%D0%BD%D0%BE-%D0%B6%D1%91%D0%BB%D1%82%D0%BE-%D0%B1%D0%B5%D0%BB%D1%8B%D0%B9_%D1%84%D0%BB%D0%B0%D0%B3 Avedon (talk) 19:17, 5 October 2020 (UTC)
"Looks like a fan site". Uh, okay? Its the official web-page of Russian Center of Vexillology. The black-yellow-white flag was approved for use in 1858 and the white-blue-red (used before the black-yellow-white) became the national flag again in 1883, although the black-yellow-white still saw some limited use until 1896. And even during the time of the black-yellow-white the white-blue-red was still in some use, such as as the civil ensign for the merchant navy. So to say that not using the 1858-1883 flag is "wrong" is itself wrong --Havsjö (talk) 15:52, 6 October 2020 (UTC)
I did not find on that site notes that this site belongs to a government organization, which means an authoritative source. I found all the signs of an amateur site owned by an individual. The Russian Wikipedia, (although the Russian Wikipedia is not an authoritative source), has a lot of details about the this two flags. Written about the discussion in the highest circles of the Russian Empire at the end of the 19th century and at the beginning of the 20th century (with sources). And written at the end, the quote: "On August 12, 1914, by circular No. 29897 of the Ministry of Internal Affairs [35] [36], it was ordered at demonstrations [36] and" for use in private life "to use a new flag - a white-blue-red cloth with a black double-headed eagle in a yellow square near pole (composition corresponding to the palace standard of the emperor). De facto black-yellow-white colors returned to the flag of Russia. The new flag was not introduced as mandatory, its use was only “allowed.” The symbolism of the flag emphasized the unity of the king with the people. However, to approve the flag first the February and then the October Revolution interfered as an official one. For the 300th anniversary of the House of Romanov, Tsar Nicholas II approved a jubilee medal using black-yellow-white flowers on a ribbon [37], the banner of the Livadia-Yalta comical company named after Tsarevich Alexei consisted of white, yellow and black stripes [38]. " Source: http://ru.wiki.x.io/wiki/%D0%A7%D1%91%D1%80%D0%BD%D0%BE-%D0%B6%D1%91%D0%BB%D1%82%D0%BE-%D0%B1%D0%B5%D0%BB%D1%8B%D0%B9_%D1%84%D0%BB%D0%B0%D0%B3 PS: In the article about Princess Anastasia Nikolaevna Romanova - there is also a lot of this, it is written that it surprises me. And I'm not talking about the details of the allegedly fake escaped daughter of the Tsar Nicolai II. Avedon (talk) 12:52, 9 October 2020 (UTC)
There are at least 3 Russian state websites - encyclopedias, including about the history of Russia. And there are at least 10 Russian state sites (from different structures and institutions) about the history of Russia from distant millennia ago to the 21st century. Now I don’t remember everything except one - bigenc.ru - Great Russian Encyclopedia Avedon (talk) 13:02, 9 October 2020 (UTC)
The white-blue-red flag with the double headed eagle in a yellow field was indeed "allowed" in 1914, but the white-blue-red flag without the the eagle had already been the national flag since 1883, with the black-yellow-white's use being fully ended by 1896 (from which it did not return, the Russian wikipedia article mentions the "de-facto return" in the sense that the 1914-flag included black + yellow). As mentioned, aside from the 1721-1858 and 1883/96-1917 periods, the white-blue-red was still used during the 1858-1883/96 period as the Russian civil ensign, so to its certainly not the "wrong flag" to include as the flag of the Russian Empire even if another flag was also used in for a few decades. --Havsjö (talk) 17:14, 9 October 2020 (UTC)
I rightly thought that the article should illustrate the flag most used and identified with the Russian Empire. White-blue-red, of course, was also used as a state one, starting with Peter the Great, and at the end of the 19th century, then by the White Guard, and finally by Russia since 1991. I do not promise, but if I have time, I will find the state site History of Russia (there are 2-3 such sites or more) and look for articles about the flag there and then post links for discussion on this page. I don’t know, unfortunately, if there are non-Russian encyclopedias in English, which will detail and accurately describe Russian flags. Avedon (talk) 21:54, 9 October 2020 (UTC)

Still there

Why are we assuming the Russian empire ended in 1918? It still looks to be there today. Roger 8 Roger (talk) 06:54, 25 January 2021 (UTC)

Where is the Afganistan and China SOIs on the map?

I thought that Russia had more control over Afganistan and China? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 116.204.144.50 (talk) 23:36, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

I was wrong about Afganistan, which is in the British SOI, but Russia had a much larger SOI over China. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 116.204.144.50 (talk) 23:36, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

Don't show Spheres of influence and Territories ceded

Can we get rid off Spheres of influence and Territories ceded at the map and just show the Russian Empire at its territorial peak in 1867? That would be so much better. Its like showing the Soviet Union with its satellite states aaron106 (talk)

I would agree, however Russian Empire was not quite at its territorial peak in 1867 (while Alaska was sold that year, part of Central Asia and Caucasus would be missing). Mellk (talk) 01:56, 20 August 2021 (UTC)

Whenever it was at its largest :) I read it was 1897 right now is that correct? Mellk --Aaron106 (talk) 15:20, 26 August 2021 (UTC)

I had a look again and 1867 is definitely there territorial peak. They only gained a little part of what was left of Central asia and Kars after 1867. So before they sold Alaska was there Territorial peak. --Aaron106 (talk) 15:43, 26 August 2021 (UTC)

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State name

If I may explain the state name. It is true that the Russian Empire which we talk about is not the only Russian Empire. Kievian Russia was also Russian Empire. Tsardom of Russia too. But lets explain. In history, what they called Empire on west, people called Tsardom on east. Persian and Babilonyan Empires where false names, becouse their rulers called themselves Tsars. For example Babilonyan Emperor Nabu-kuduri-ussur was not Emperor, he was Tsar, as his name speaks. The word "ussur" or "sur" is derivied from "sar"or "tsar". So the title Tsar is older then Emperor (which was roman word). Even Caesar, the roman emperor had title Tsar. His title Caesar was derivied from "Ka" and "Sar" (Tsar). That is because he was "Ka" of Egypt and "Sar" or "Tsar" of Roman Empire. Peter the Great considered himself as a successor of the Roman Empire trough Serbian Empire (which also considered itself as a successor of Roman Empire), and this is why he took the title of Emperor, and state name of Empire. That is the only reason. So, the Russian Empire is the correct name for the state. However, common Russians never called their country as Empire, or their ruler as Emperor, he was Tsar to them. But the formal state name was Russian Empire, that is correct. I am sorry for bad English.

Both the German "Kaiser" and the Russian "Tsar" are derived from the Latin "Ceasar". Wandavianempire (talk) 20:21, 14 May 2020 (UTC)

Absolute rubbish. Please take your views elsewhere, this project is an attempt to build an encyclopedia based on Reliable Sources.50.111.61.101 (talk) 12:43, 3 October 2021 (UTC)

Unexplained removal of content

@John.jacobs13242244: Can you elaborate past just "errors" as to why you are removing this content? Skarmory (talk • contribs) 07:30, 25 February 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 7 March 2022

Sentence “The empire had a predominantly agricultural economy based on large estates worked unproductively by Russian peasants, known as serfs, who were tied to the land under a feudal arrangement.”

Specific edit: deletion of word “unproductively”

Reasoning: Gives biased presentation of information present towards listed subjects. Not an objective view of information present. May be interpreted as personal bias on writers behalf. Given current political circumstances may be viewed as derogatory or inflammatory. 2600:387:F:4714:0:0:0:1 (talk) 06:03, 7 March 2022 (UTC)

 Done —Sirdog (talk) 07:37, 7 March 2022 (UTC)
 Comment: I agree that "unproductively" is too broadly applied, although one could argue that a mostly illiterate workforce that was burdened by increasing obligations to landlords was perforce "unproductive" (also see analyses by authors such as V. S. Lelchuk and Ivan Koval'chenko, among many). I also noticed that, while there was a lead summary of agriculture under the empire, there was nothing in the article. So, I moved that summary to a new subsection under "Economy". Dhtwiki (talk) 09:19, 7 March 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 28 May 2022

Change the Emperors section in the sidebar from: 

Peter I (first)
Nicholas II (last)

to a list including all emperors (and their dates) 188.29.188.53 (talk) 01:07, 28 May 2022 (UTC)

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template. The infobox is already pretty extensive, so I don't think further expansion is productive. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 01:15, 28 May 2022 (UTC)

Russian Empire

Russian Empire 1721-1917 Ayden76543211 (talk) 02:54, 21 July 2022 (UTC)

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