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Sourcing Question

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The article on the Portland Aerial Tram claims that the Doppelmayr CTEC built the Roosevelt Island Tramway. Doppelymayr's web site doesn't list or indicate this is the case. Can this claim be validated by someone? If not, we should probably remove the statement that Dopplemayr did build it from the overview section in the article page. Theflyer 14:18, 22 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

According to the Roosevelt Island Operating Corporation (RIOC) website (the firm managing the island's services), the Tram was built by the Swiss company called Vonroll in 1976, not by Doppelmayr CTEC. This Wikipedia article confirms it. Thistheman 18:14, 22 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Incidentally, it's even mentioned in the middle of the article, under the "History" section. Thistheman 18:18, 22 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I'll basiclly revert my previous edits that made the linkage to Doppelmayr and the Portland Aerial Tram after submitting this response and will post a comment over on Portland Aerial Tram about the inconsistency. Theflyer 20:53, 22 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

On 12 November, User:Rehrenberg posted the following question on the article page. It is moved here so we can work it out and update the article as appropriate. "Von Roll is now owned by the Austian company Doppelmayr Garaventa Group, who, on their webiste, makes no mention of having built it, yet on the site of competitor CWA Constructions (Swiss) [1], there is a least one photo and a description. Who's right?" Theflyer 17:01, 12 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

What's on second?

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This article cites a New York Times article by Billie Cohen to claim:

Prior to the completion of the Portland Aerial Tram in December 2006, it was the only commuter aerial tramway in North America.[1]

However, the Mississippi Aerial River Transit (MART) operated from May 1984 to April 1985, before the Portland tram. The MART was of a type known to wikipedia editors as a gondola lift not an aerial tramway, a subtle technical distinction that may be lost on many readers. Perhaps the claim should mention MART and contain an expanded footnote to explain the technical distinction like so: 69.119.27.73 (talk) 13:21, 10 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Prior to the completion of the Mississippi Aerial River Transit in May 1984 and the Portland Aerial Tram in December 2006, it was the only commuter aerial tramway in North America.[2]
The proposed rewording of what is currently the second sentence in the lead was placed into the article a few minutes ago. 69.119.27.73 (talk) 02:04, 19 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ Cohen, Billie. "Next Stop: Roosevelt Island Tram", The New York Times, January 15, 2008. Accessed August 17, 2008.
  2. ^ The Mississippi Aerial River Transit was a gondola lift system not an aerial tramway system. See also Cohen, Billie. "Next Stop: Roosevelt Island Tram", The New York Times, January 15, 2008. Accessed August 17, 2008.

New Tramway?

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POMA, the French maker of aerial tramways etc., says on its website (http://www.poma.net/en/xpage/index/view/id/17) (>historic >2009) that they built or are building the new Roosevelt Island Tramway. Has it been completed? Does it replace the old one? Is there anybody with some information on it? --AHert (talk) 16:18, 20 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Abandoned old cabins

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In September 2011, I mentioned old cabins of RI tram disposed at behind the Roosevelt Island Garage. They were placed in behind some fence making it difficult to photograph. Does anyone know, what is the future of the old RI tram cabs? GK tramrunner (talk) 03:02, 4 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review

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Passed. Bneu2013 (talk) 17:16, 12 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Reviewing
This review is transcluded from Talk:Roosevelt Island Tramway/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Bneu2013 (talk · contribs) 08:47, 20 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]


I will be reviewing this article and have my first comments very soon. I still need to read over the article thoroughly. Before I start, though, I noticed that this article is currently assessed as start-class. I'm guessing this assessment is left over from before the article was expanded. Bneu2013 (talk) 08:47, 20 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for taking on this review @Bneu2013. Yeah, I simply forgot to change the article's rating after its expansion. Epicgenius (talk) 14:18, 20 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Epicgenius: - I have posted all of my comments for the article body. Since there are a lot of references, I am going to hold off on these in case some of them get changed/moved/renumbered, etc., while you address the remaining comments. Bneu2013 (talk) 00:42, 5 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks. I'll take a look at these tomorrow. – Epicgenius (talk) 01:07, 5 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Epicgenius: - just a quick reminder that there's just a few more comments that need to be addressed, and the article will be good to go! Bneu2013 (talk) 18:16, 11 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

General comments

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  • Be sure to add inflation adjustments to all remaining figures that you think warrant this. I don't suppose you need to do this for post-2010 figures.
  • At first I had pondered whether or not the description section needs to go before the history section, but considering how it is worded, I think it is fine the way it is. Ultimately, I think either would work, but in its current state, it definitely ain't broke. You decide.

@Epicgenius: - Once you finish the references and the other points I added, the article should be good to go. Don't forget about the inflation adjustments, the suggestion I made about including the original projected completion date, and the tense changes for the rescue cages. Bneu2013 (talk) 03:56, 6 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. I have addressed all of these now, including the inflation, tenses, completion date, and page numbers. – Epicgenius (talk) 15:55, 12 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Infobox and lead

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  • Opening year is mentioned twice in the lead; suggest changing "having opened in 1976 to serve" to "having been constructed to serve" or something similar.
  • Suggest including when the Roosevelt Island Bridge was built and cutting "Just" at the front of this sentence.
  • After the 2010 renovation, the cabins were replaced with 110-person vehicles that could independently. - I feel like there's a word missing before "independently".
  • an elevated terminal on Manhattan. - is this supposed to say "in Manhattan" or "on Manhattan Island"? Is "on Manhattan" commonly recognized to refer to the island, not the borough?

History

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Development

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Construction

Opening and early operations

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1970s
1980s
  • In After the tram was closed in November 1980 for haul cable replacement, the replacement cable fell twice in one month I suggest changing second use of "replacement" to "new" or something like that.
  • Curious as to why some residents didn't like the repainting.
    • Some residents really liked the tram's iconic look and felt the blue cabin really clashed with their idea of the tram's appearance. It would be as if the Statue of Liberty was repainted bronze, since people associate the Statue of Liberty with its green color. Epicgenius (talk) 16:20, 4 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Did RIOC take over the tram as soon as it was created? If not, I suggest including the date. I also suggest a more precise date for the creation of this agency if that is available.
  • When the tramway's liability insurance policy expired, the New York State Senate failed to pass a bill allowing the state to self-insure the tramway, - was this the insurance that expired in early 1986 mentioned in the previous paragraph? If so, I suggest moving the word "liability" to this sentence. You could also reword "When the tramway's liability insurance policy expired" in this sentence to "When this occurred".
  • The New York State Senate is not the only legislative body required to pass legislation; did something pass in the State Assembly but fail in the Senate?
  • RIOC fired staff members and installed token machines in an effort to cut costs. - did this occur when the subway opened?
  • Link "New York (magazine)".
1990s

21st century

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Early 2000s and increasing unreliability
Renovation and later years
  • Suggest rewording "Roosevelt Island" in Work was delayed because of challenges in bringing a large crane to Roosevelt Island to "the island", since it is used in the preceding sentence.
  • The late opening was also attributed to delays in obtaining permits for construction, since it appears that the crane logistics also delayed the project.
  • Change "to Cornell Tech" in the first sentence of the second paragraph to "here" or "this location" or something similar.
  • The reconstruction of the elevators at the Manhattan terminal was completed in April 2022 for $7 million. - the previous paragraph says the elevators were installed in 2019. Did they have to be constructed after only three years?

Description

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  • I feel like a lot of the content in the first paragraph belongs in the history section and/or duplicates content in the history section.

Route and stations

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Manhattan terminal
  • The plaza was created in 1980 and renovated in 2007. - change "created" to "constructed" or "built". Also, this likely belongs in the history section.
    • I've done both. (Incidentally, I used that wording because there was originally supposed to be a bus loading area on the site. The bus loading area was never built, so the space was designated as a plaza instead.) Epicgenius (talk) 01:17, 30 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Inconsistent use of Oxford commas in first paragraph. Fix anywhere else.
  • The terminal is the equivalent of a six-story structure. - does this only refer to the height of the structure or other characteristics?
  • Does a road pass under the terminal, or just an area for buses?
  • The station originally had one elevator for wheelchairs and bicycles,[59][201] which was replaced with two larger elevators in 2022. - again, more information you might want to cover in the history section.
  • Was a building ever planned atop the terminal?
Roosevelt Island terminal

Cabins

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Original cabins (1976–2010)
Current cabins (2010–present)

Structures and cabling

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Drive system

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  • The main drive unit had a 1,700 horsepower (1,300 kW)[229] or 2,000 horsepower (1,500 kW) motor. - reword to something like "The main drive unit had a 1,700 horsepower and a 2,000 horsepower motor." or something appropriate. Also, did both motors run simultaneously or was one a backup? Was one of them part of the auxiliary drive?
  • No information about the auxiliary drive unit.

Operations

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  • Consider listing the time zone here.
  • The tram is wheelchair accessible, and bicycles are permitted on the tram. - suggest changing second use of "tram" at the end to "cabins".
  • but it shut down if crosswinds exceeded 40 miles per hour (64 km/h)[232][233] or 45 miles per hour (72 km/h). - is this discrepancy because the sources do not agree on the windspeed that it shut down? If so, consider adding "either" and a footnote about this. If it was a speed between 40 and 45 mph, reword as necessary and combine sources in a footnote that reads "Attributed to multiple references" to avoid excessive citations.
  • Thunderstorms and lightning could also shut down the route. - I don't suppose you need to mention this, but there is most certainly some kind of grounding system for lightning, right? If you do decide the mention it, the cabling section would probably be the best place.
  • at the time, most aerial trams in the U.S. served ski resorts. - I'm guessing this is likely still true.

Fares

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  • Change period after "buses" to comma; looks like a typo.
  • Children who were 5 years old or younger were allowed to ride fare-free until 2010, when RIOC stopped charging fares based on age. Ever since the tramway reopened in 2010, children under 44 inches (1,100 mm) have been allowed to ride fare-free regardless of their age if they are accompanied by a paying adult. - Suggest rewording to "Children who were 5 years old or younger were allowed to ride fare-free until the 2010 closure, when RIOC stopped charging fares based on age. Ever since the tramway reopened, children under 44 inches (1,100 mm) have been allowed to ride fare-free regardless of their age if they are accompanied by a paying adult." Also, were fares determined by age prior to 2010 for other age groups? For example, did seniors get a discount?
  • If I recall, some articles about paid public transit facilities include a brief table that includes the cost over time and their inflation adjusted prices. You could do that here.

Ridership

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  • You might want to consider swapping By 1989, the year the 63rd Street subway line began serving the island, the tramway saw 5,500 daily riders on average. and Within a month of the subway's opening, the tram's weekly ridership declined from 35,000 to 20,000., rewording as necessary.
  • I'm guessing the 10,000 passengers a day figure was short-lived, considering that an annual average of this many would amount to about 3.65 million passengers.
    • That is correct. I think many of these passengers may have traveled from other parts of the city just to ride the tramway; the route had to limit ridership to residents after a few weeks. Epicgenius (talk) 23:18, 5 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Based on the daily ridership figures during the strike, it looks like ridership declined after 1998, but increased between the strike and the renovation. Why was this?
  • After the renovation was complete, daily ridership increased to 6,000,[176] and annual ridership was about 2.2 million - considering that ridership was at 2 million annually before the closure and renovation, this is not actually a huge increase (2 million a year is about 5,500 a day). I suggest adding an adjective like "slightly" or "modestly" to the sentence.

Impact

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Critical reception

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Impact

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  • Other films that have used the tramway as a setting include Spider-Man (2002)[260][263] and Dark Water (2005). - were any scenes actually filmed on the tramway, or just set there?

References

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@Epicgenius: - Just a few more comments to address here and the article will pass. Bneu2013 (talk) 05:43, 7 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. I forgot about these - will take care of them shortly (within the next day). – Epicgenius (talk) 18:21, 11 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Did you know nomination

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The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Lightburst talk 00:17, 20 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(
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Roosevelt Island Tramway
Roosevelt Island Tramway

Improved to Good Article status by Epicgenius (talk). Self-nominated at 18:39, 15 January 2024 (UTC). Post-promotion hook changes for this nom will be logged at Template talk:Did you know nominations/Roosevelt Island Tramway; consider watching this nomination, if it is successful, until the hook appears on the Main Page.[reply]

  • Prefer ALT1 as it is interesting, confirmed and in the article - I found it cited on p.114 of the reference. That hook is found in the first part of the Route and stations section. Earwig does not alert to any issues. The article was promoted to GA by EG and nominated within the allotted time so it qualifies. It is neutral and cited/references and the QPQ is done. The image is clear, free, renders well at this size and it is interesting. Bruxton (talk) 22:06, 16 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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