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Talk:Port Mercer, New Jersey

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Did you know nomination

[edit]
The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Crisco 1492 talk 02:24, 29 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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5x expanded by Lbal (talk). Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has fewer than 5 past nominations.

Lbal (talk) 22:00, 17 October 2024 (UTC).[reply]

Preliminary review
  • Article was expanded more than 5x within the seven day period (from 827 to 6249 chars). Length is good. I'm not as happy with the Earwig results here as I was with the Jugtown DYK. I think there are some common phrases that can easily be rewritten. In case anyone is confused by the no QPQ needed at time of submission versus the QPQ needed message with the current report, this nom was submitted before the 5 nom limit was exceeded due to subsequent nominations. So, no QPQ needed for this one. Port Mercer has only 13 major points of interest based on your sources, yet you've neglected at least two, maybe more, I haven't yet finished checking. You've mentioned Washington's march, but you don't discuss the two obelisks in the town commemorating it per your sources. Given how small this town is and the limited number of landmarks, we need to be mindful of WP:DYKCOMPLETE. I don't think this is a major red flag, but it did stand out to me. I think it would also be helpful to the reader to summarize these points of interest in some way, perhaps in the lead itself or in section 1 (first section after the lead), noting that three of the 13 historical points of interest are no longer extant (or have been destroyed); I'm referring to the Swivel bridge, the General store, and the barn, which have been lost to time. I previously chided you (using Marvin the Martian as my alter ego) about maintaining interest with your narrative in the discussion about the Jugtown Historic District. I think you've got an opportunity here to walk people through the town, not just using "history" as you frame it currently, but also with more of a visual, boots on the ground approach to the area. Something to think about? I tried to approach Pillar Point Bluff using this perspective, and even though I wasn't able to fully approximate the visual navigation of the place in verbal form, it did help me to organize my thoughts and tighten the narrative. As for your hooks, I honestly don't think ALT0 is all that interesting. I suspect that inns serving small towns in the 19th century were steeped in prostitution procurement activity in certain areas, given that it is one of the world's oldest professions. In other words, water is wet. ALT1 is slightly more interesting but isn't entirely self-explanatory. It might be salvageable. @Lbal: Perhaps consider other hooks? Viriditas (talk) 00:55, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Viriditas: I'm planning to rewrite the lead and address the obelisks in a points of interest section at some point either today or tomorrow. If you have any suggestions for how to brighten up the prose, I'd love to hear them.
  • @Lbal: See the link to Pillar Point Bluff up above. I had the same problem you did, and as silly as it sounds, the way I addressed it was to envision in my mind the reader as a person. I then took that person's hand in mine, and gently guided them through Pillar Point, pointing out the sites, stopping where necessary to explain a specific detail, and then letting them take in the entire place on their own. I get it if you are resistant to thinking like that, but it was the only way I could write the article. In other words, pretend you are a tour guide showing the town to someone for the very first time. How would you do it? Then, write it that way. Viriditas (talk) 22:14, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Viriditas: I like that idea. I'll try to revise the prose with that in mind.
@Lbal: If you want to read more about the process of visualizing locations, the article on the memory palace technique gives some advice on how to do it. Although it is only loosely related to this discussion, it is the same general idea. Viriditas (talk) 22:41, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Lbal: Good job with your changes so far. The lead is coming along well and I think ALT2 has some potential for approval, but might need some rewriting. I'm leaning heavily towards ALT2 at this point, but I think it can be improved before this is closed out. Viriditas (talk) 08:47, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Lbal: As for ALT2, consider revisiting the source material and working with the interesting content to rewrite your hook: "Attempts to capitalize on the heavy traffic included a well-timed delay in opening the swing bridge. This slow opening ... might entangle the mules' tow lines and inadvertently pull (them) into the canal. Fortunately, local boys would be nearby and rescue the mules .. and receive a reward..." I would emphasize the grift, the attempt to profit from the heavy traffic. Viriditas (talk) 21:14, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Lbal: Great progress on the hook, but you are at 203 characters. I can offer some suggestions for shortening it or you can do it yourself. Try some varations, for example: "... that in Port Mercer, New Jersey, locals profited from canal traffic by dragging mules belonging to travelers into the waterway, then paying boys to 'rescue' them for a fee?" That's 172 characters. Viriditas (talk) 23:51, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
L:@Viriditas: Sounds good, let me know if this is any better,
@Lbal: I like it. Viriditas (talk) 09:12, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Lbal: I made a few copyedits to the article, but I still need to do a final read through. Viriditas (talk) 23:21, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Lbal: The store itself went through multiple local owners in the 19th century. Crater built the Port Mercer Inn on the tract he had purchased from Gillingham sometime before 1858. Everything was going great until you sprang this "Gillingham" character on us, out of the blue. No idea who this guy is or where he came from. You name drop him like we should know him. Viriditas (talk) 11:09, 26 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Now I keep wondering, what would Gillingham think? He shows up for one sentence and then disappears. I'm convinced he's related to the MacGuffins in the next town over. Viriditas (talk) 11:17, 26 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I temporarily removed "Gillingham". Did you mean to say "Gillinghams" to refer to both relatives you mentioned earlier? It wasn't clear. Add it back in if you can improve it. Viriditas (talk) 23:05, 26 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Ah, I probably meant Gillinghams there. I'll fix it up. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lbal (talk • contribs) 23:23, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Actually, I must have removed the earlier mention to a Gillingham when rewriting the page. I'll take a look at it regardless. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lbal (talk • contribs) 00:11, 28 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Final review
General: Article is new enough and long enough
Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
QPQ: None required.
Overall: Prefer ALT2. Good to go. I got a bit too excited when I read "the canal was designated a skate park", only to realize that I misread "state" as "skate". Now, I'm sad again. Just kidding, you did a good job on this article and I left wanting to know more about the town. Great work. My only suggestion is to consider WP:BUNDLING citations in the near future to help the reader. Thanks for the time you put into this. Viriditas (talk) 23:05, 26 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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