Talk:New Zealand bellbird

Stub...

so many editors have been in here, but it is still a stub..moza 13:27, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Sex of birds in the images

Given that male and female have different appearance, is it possible for more of the image captions to indicate sex (only with certainty, of course)? Nurg (talk) 08:48, 28 June 2024 (UTC)

True, thanks for noticing. I’ve included sex in captions and replaced a couple of images so we have a better representation of females and juveniles. Podzemnik (talk) 07:44, 30 June 2024 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:New Zealand bellbird/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Nominator: Podzemnik (talk · contribs) 20:47, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

Reviewer: Esculenta (talk · contribs) 19:18, 28 June 2024 (UTC)

Hello, I'll review this article. I'll have my comments here this weekend. Esculenta (talk) 19:18, 28 June 2024 (UTC)

Apologies for the delay. Real life and all that… Here is the first part of my review. Overall, the article is quite informative and well-written and most of my comments below are suggestions for minor improvements. I think the only thing that's really missing is a bit more detail about the subspecies. I'll be back later to perform source spotchecks. Esculenta (talk) 17:06, 4 July 2024 (UTC)

Thank you so much for your review, I really appreciate it! I'm quite busy right now, but I will go through your review and address your suggestions, hopefully next week. Cheers, Podzemnik (talk) 08:04, 9 July 2024 (UTC)

Lead

• some links might be considered to fall under WP:OVERLINK, like Europe, tongue, flower, parks, gardens, fruit, insect, and eggs. However, linking to bird egg would be more subject specific and perhaps useful. Other possibly useful links: breeding season, pair bond
  • OK. --Podzemnik (talk) 01:02, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
• maybe tweak wording to remove the repeated use of "noted"
  • OK. --Podzemnik (talk) 01:02, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
• Its "Captain Cook" in the lead, but "James Cook" throughout the article … maybe the lead use should be the full "Captain James Cook"?
  • Sure, fixed. --Podzemnik (talk) 01:02, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
• "Bellbirds have modified their ninth primaries," if I don't know what a "primary" is, I have to click away from the article to find out what this means, so can the wording be tweaked to "ninth primary flight feathers" or similar?
  • OK --Podzemnik (talk) 01:02, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
• "The bellbird is regarded as taonga by the Māori," maybe gloss taonga so reader doesn't have to click away to determine meaning
  • OK. --Podzemnik (talk) 01:02, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
• minor regional spelling inconsistencies: utilize/ recognised /symbolises
  • • Considering that the article is tagged as being in New Zealand English, I'm wondering if the following spelling changes should be made: -ize -> -ise, Behavior->Behaviour. Esculenta (talk) 17:01, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
  • OK. --Podzemnik (talk) 01:02, 15 July 2024 (UTC)

Taxonomy and nomenclature

• image caption: "Illustration of a male (right) and a female bellbirds by J. G. Keulemans, 1888"
  • Fixed, thanks. --Podzemnik (talk) 01:02, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
• "When anchored at Queen Charlotte Sound, Cook's botanist Joseph Banks" I would word this as "the voyage botanist", as "Cook's botanist" sounds unusual to me
  • OK. --Podzemnik (talk) 01:02, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
• "It's assumed that the chorus was created by bellbirds" contractions are generally avoided in formal prose (other instances as well, several "it's", a "doesn't" and a "don't")
  • OK, I didn't realise that. --Podzemnik (talk) 01:02, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
• "The first specimen was collected by Johann Reinhold Forster and Anders Sparrman in April 1773 during the Second voyage of James Cook." suggest avoiding passive voice, e.g. "Johann Reinhold Forster and Anders Sparrman collected the first specimen in April 1773 during James Cook's second voyage."
  • OK. --Podzemnik (talk) 01:02, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
• "The species' scientific epithet" suggest "specific name" or "species epithet"
  • OK. --Podzemnik (talk) 01:02, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
• "binominal name" (x2) -> binomial name
  • OK. --Podzemnik (talk) 01:02, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
• " Type locality was later corrected to Queen Charlotte Sound." needs "the"
  • OK. --Podzemnik (talk) 01:02, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
• for best practices, the Latin and Mari names should be in language templates
  • OK. I put the Greek words into a lang template too. --Podzemnik (talk) 01:02, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
• "and a second member of the Anthornis genus." -> "and a second member of the genus Anthornis."
  • OK. --Podzemnik (talk) 01:02, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
    • It's the 3rd mention of "the genus Anthornis" in the paragraph. Better if this mention is just "the genus" – there'll be no confusion over which genus.
      • OK. --Podzemnik (talk) 22:56, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
• link monotypic, molecular study, clade, phylogenetic, cladogram
  • OK. --Podzemnik (talk) 01:02, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
• so this species is the type species of genus Anthornis? Maybe that should be said explicitly (the genus page isn't obvious about it either)
  • Clarified. --Podzemnik (talk) 05:31, 17 July 2024 (UTC)

Description

• possibly useful links: iridescent, plumage, gape, vent
  • OK. --Podzemnik (talk) 23:37, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
• "fore-flanks" according to this source, this word is obsolete?
  • OK. --Podzemnik (talk) 23:37, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
• ""Similar to other honeyeaters, bellbirds have a brush-like tongue which is used to collect nectar deeply from flowers." which -> that
  • OK. --Podzemnik (talk) 23:37, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
• "The tongue is canaliculated" I happen to know what this means because the same term is used in lichenology, but I doubt most others would know, so it should probably be glossed or rephrased.
  • OK. --Podzemnik (talk) 23:37, 15 July 2024 (UTC)

Distribution and habitat

• the vagrant link should instead point to Vagrancy (biology)
  • OK. --Podzemnik (talk) 23:37, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
• "Its habitat encompasses both native and exotic forests and scrublands," might want to tweak the wording here, as the last bird mentioned was the tūī.
  • OK. --Podzemnik (talk) 23:37, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
• could link population density
  • OK. Do you have some kind of a tool for knowing where to link or do you remember that we have articles on these topics here? --Podzemnik (talk) 23:37, 15 July 2024 (UTC)

  There probably is a tool, but I'm not aware of it. I just read the text and always question "do we have an article on this" and copy/paste text snippets to confirm. Esculenta (talk) 17:08, 19 July 2024 (UTC)

Behaviour and ecology

• "Main natural predators of bellbirds are swamp harrier (Circus approximans)[41] and New Zealand falcon (Falco novaeseelandiae)." needs "The"
  • OK. --Podzemnik (talk) 23:37, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
• maybe links: broods, reproductive success, hawking
  • OK. --Podzemnik (talk) 23:37, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
• "and can live at least 8 years." 8 -> eight per MOS:NUMERAL
  • OK. --Podzemnik (talk) 23:37, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
• "(Sophora sp)" -> sp.
  • OK. --Podzemnik (talk) 23:37, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
• “yeng” -> "yeng" (normalising quote marks)
  • OK. --Podzemnik (talk) 23:37, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
• spell out unit Herz and link
  • OK. --Podzemnik (talk) 23:37, 15 July 2024 (UTC)

Conservation

• links: habitat destruction, invasive species (or pipe Invasive species in New Zealand), introduced species
  • OK. --Podzemnik (talk) 23:37, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
• "Prominent New Zealand ornithologist" Needs "The", else is false title
  • OK. --Podzemnik (talk) 23:37, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
• "In the South Island, bellbirds did not hit their lowest numbers in Canterbury until 1900." suggest "In the South Island, bellbird numbers in Canterbury did not reach their lowest point until 1900."
  • OK. --Podzemnik (talk) 23:37, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
• "Bellbird populations have suffered significant declines due to the destruction of native forests (initiated by Māori and perpetuated by Europeans[63]) and the introduction of invasive predators such as cats (Felix catus), mustelids (ferret (Mustela furo), stoat (M. erminea), weasel (M. nivalis)), and rodents (Norwegian rat (Rattus norvegicus), ship rat (Rattus rattus))." the double parentheses are slightly awkward, maybe a prose tweak needed?
  • OK. --Podzemnik (talk) 23:37, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
• "a disease such as avian malaria which was introduced" comma before "which"
  • OK. --Podzemnik (talk) 23:37, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
• maybe links: taxa, passerine
  • OK. --Podzemnik (talk) 23:37, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
• "honey-bee" according to its article, this is usually written as either "honeybee" or "honey bee"
  • OK. --Podzemnik (talk) 23:37, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
• "More recent research" Recommend not using "recent", especially here as the two cited sources (both 2010) are less recent than the source discussed in the previous sentence (2015)
  • Good point. --Podzemnik (talk) 23:37, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
• "According to IUCN" unlink this (was already linked two sentences ago)
  • OK. --Podzemnik (talk) 23:37, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
• "The decline is most prominent in lowlands below 1000 m above sea level." suggest "The decline is most prominent in lowland areas under 1000 meters in elevation." to avoid the slightly awkward below/above construction
  • OK. --Podzemnik (talk) 23:37, 15 July 2024 (UTC)

Relationship with humans

• link proverb, oratories, snare trap, fowler
  • OK. --Podzemnik (talk) 23:37, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
• suggest enclosing Maori words/phrases in lang template
  • OK. --Podzemnik (talk) 23:37, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
• about the translation, isn't Kī mai ki a au more accurately rendered as "and if you ask me" or "if you were to ask me"?
  • I don't speak Māori, but in general, language can be translated in many ways. Here it's translated as "say to me" and here as "If you were to ask me". I'm referencing quite a good book written by Margaret Orbell where it's translated exactly as I quote it, so I think that we could leave it as it is. --Podzemnik (talk) 05:31, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
• "Bellbirds enjoy eating the fruit of a small forest tree" In formal writing, attributing human emotions or preferences to animals can sometimes be seen as anthropomorphism and may be considered inappropriate.
  • OK. --Podzemnik (talk) 23:37, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
• "The fowler would then set up a low laying horizontal perch snare…" -> "The fowler would then set up a low-lying horizontal perch snare"
  • OK. --Podzemnik (talk) 23:37, 15 July 2024 (UTC)

Misc

• missing information ("missing" = stuff I expected to see in the article but did not):

• what are the morphological differences between the subspecies? What do their subspecies epithets mean?

• Added. --Podzemnik (talk) 06:36, 18 July 2024 (UTC)

• any chance of including citations to the protologues of these subspecies?

• Added. --Podzemnik (talk) 06:36, 18 July 2024 (UTC)

• the sources all look reliable and appropriate. This is not required to pass GAN, but if you wanted, you could tidy the citations a bit by changing "p." to "pp." where appropriate, consistently using endashes instead of hyphens for page number ranges, and italicising scientific names in the title of sources.

• Fixed, I'm just not sure about italisicing scientific names in cases where they're not italicized in the original documents. For example, in this docuemnt, Anthornis is not italicised. --Podzemnik (talk) 06:36, 18 July 2024 (UTC)

• It's fine to alter the formatting of the title to meets Wikipedia standards, including changing ALLCAPS to title or sentence case, using an endash for a number range instead of a hyphen, or italicizing scientific names. I'm sure there's a MoS for this somewhere, but the best I could find was this "As with trademarks, Wikipedia does not attempt to emulate any stylistic flourishes used by the cited source's publisher, such as ALL-CAPS, all-lower-case, Small Caps, etc.; use either standard title case or sentence case consistently." from here. More importantly, it does not affect in any way the reader's ability to find or verify the source. Esculenta (talk) 17:01, 19 July 2024 (UTC)

  Good to know, I've fixed that in all references. Thanks. Podzemnik (talk) 06:59, 20 July 2024 (UTC)

• Images & media:

• File:Walter Lawry Buller (English School).jpg needs "a United States public domain tag to indicate why this work is in the public domain in the United States."
• all other & media have appropriate licenses for use on Wikipedia

• I fixed the license for the file and checked all the other licenses of inserted media. --Podzemnik (talk) 05:40, 17 July 2024 (UTC)

@Esculenta: I addressed your review. I've learned a lot, so thank you very much. I can see how I'll do a better job next time. Regards --Podzemnik (talk) 06:36, 18 July 2024 (UTC)

• I'm glad this was a pleasant experience, and I hope you will bring additional well-constructed/written species articles to GAN! Wrapping up:

• Spot checks:

• there's a little issue with some references that are being listed as "Further reading" rather than as a source. The sources that are used in short citations should be listed in a separate subsection titled "Works cited" or similar; see MOS:REFERENCES for guidance.

• True. I named the section "Works cited" based on MOS:REFERENCES and some other FAs like Pelican#Cited_texts. --Podzemnik (talk) 07:22, 20 July 2024 (UTC)

• I verified all statements attributed to current sources #2 ("Checklist of the Birds of New Zealand"), #5 ( "Bellbird/korimako"), and Higgins et al. 2001; no problems noted. With that, I'm placing the article on hold to deal with the minor nits (NZ spelling; references layout; tweaking citation titles is GA-optional). Esculenta (talk) 17:01, 19 July 2024 (UTC)

• @Esculenta: I adjusted the remaining words to NZ spelling, fixed references layout and italicised scientific names in citation titles. Thanks again! --Podzemnik (talk) 07:22, 20 July 2024 (UTC)

  Promoting to GA now. Cheers, Esculenta (talk) 16:37, 20 July 2024 (UTC)