Talk:National Right to Life Committee

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One of these things is not like the others

Fromt he lead:

The organization, through legislative and educational activity, works against induced abortion, infanticide, euthanasia and assisted suicide.

Infanticide does not belong. It especially does not belong sourced from their mission statement. Why? This is an anti-abortion group. They define abortion and infanticide as synonyms. They campaign for laws to prevent abortion, but no laws are needed to prevent infanticide - it is already a crime, everywhere. Euthanasia and assisted suicide are legal in some jurisdictions around the world, infanticide is not. People are pressing for laws to protect or advance the right to abortion, euthanasia and assisted suicide, nobody is pressing for the right to commit infanticide.

The term infanticide, in context, is pure framing. It's an NPOV failure. Guy (help! - typo?) 14:25, 2 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

JzG, that's your WP:OR Elizium23 (talk) 14:30, 2 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Elizium23, no it's not. They are quite open about it. Guy (help! - typo?) 14:37, 2 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

JzG, ^{[failed verification]} they are not synonyms. Elizium23 (talk) 14:38, 2 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Elizium23, See the word National? That's the United States. The self-published opinion piece about the Netherlands is, if anything, a point in my favour here: it's a blog post, and Netherlands has a well regulated euthanasia law. The Groeningen Protocol (I have a friend who lives there) is designed to alleviate the suffering of infants born with disabilities incompatible with life.

During the past few months, the international press has been full of blood-chilling accounts and misunderstandings concerning this protocol.
— https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmp058026

That blog post is exactly what's being described. I'd remind you again: NRLC are not a reliable independent source. On anything related to abortion or end of life care, they are not a reliable source at all other than for their own views, which we do not state as fact. Guy (help! - typo?) 15:03, 2 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

All that needs to be done in the lede is to quote the mission statement and attribute it to the NRTLC: "According to its mission statement the NRTLC is concerned with 'abortion, infanticide, euthanasia, etc' ..."' Whether or not euthanasia is legal in the United States is utterly irrelevant. Many private organizations claim to fight practices that are widely illegal. FBPlunger (talk) 22:28, 2 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

FBPlunger, nope. See WP:MISSION. We don't use marketing statements by activists. For exactly the reasons I laid out above. Guy (help! - typo?) 22:32, 2 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Not even going to bother to read. An essay counts for naught. Show me the rule. FBPlunger (talk) 22:35, 2 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

WP:NPOV. Mission statements are not neutral. WP:RS. The group's own website is not a reliable independent source. I know you've been here no time and have 27 edits (at least under this account), so you don't understand our policies yet. Have a look at the discussions at WP:RSN. Guy (help! - typo?) 22:47, 2 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Duuuuh! Of course mission statements aren't neutral. By necessity they are not neutral. Reporters and editors quote extremely biased statements all the time, again, by necessity. That doesn't mean they're acting in a biased fashion. As for reliable sources in Wikipedia's rules, I believe that organizations are generally considered to be reliable sources for uncontested information about themselves. You may contest whether the NRTLC spends much time combatting infanticide but it is absolutely uncontestable that concern over infanticide is listed in their mission statement. FBPlunger (talk) 23:09, 2 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with JzG that mission statements should not be used: either for sources, or included in an article. Yes, WP:MISSION is an essay, but one that I agree with, and that I would support having as policy. I view mission statements and mottos as propaganda that should not be re-published in Wikipedia.---Avatar317 ^(talk) 23:30, 2 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

So, Avatar317, you would oppose the inclusion of the mission statement in this particular article: [1] ? FBPlunger (talk) 23:46, 2 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Avatar317, companies describe their own operations all the time, at Boeing, Yahoo!, Google, Procter & Gamble, Johnson & Johnson. It's your special prejudice that's against the pro-life set of organizations from looking more like the rest of Wikipedia. Elizium23 (talk) 00:42, 3 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]