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English that is sub-standard

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It is quite a disgrace that someone who cannot write proper English had his contribution published in Wikipedia. I am referring to the sub-heading "2009 UMNO General Assembly and Party Election". Can someone kindly rephrase what the contributor was trying to say when he wrote: "Muhyiddin, seen being the supporter of Tun Dr Mahathir was seen to be the front-runner for the race..." Let's maintain the high standard of Wikipedia, please. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.207.231.117 (talk) 22:35, 12 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]


Excessive coverage of controversies

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I think the following paragraphs:

Muhyiddin, as Deputy Prime Minister, has used a RMAF Nuri helicopter to attend and open UMNO's divisional assembly in the interior of Sabah, which has nothing to do with his official duties. His actions have been strongly criticized by the federal opposition led by Lim Kit Siang as it was a misuse of his powers as Deputy Prime Minister. Lim even questioned whether the Malaysian Anti-Corruption Commission (MACC) would investigate Muhyiddin as MACC has been making various investigation into assemblymen in Lim's Pakatan controlled states.[1]
On 31 March 2010, Muhyiddin caused a ruckus in the country declaring himself is a Malay first rather than a Malaysian first when responding to Democratic Action Party (DAP) leader Lim Kit Siang's challenge in the parliament for him to state whether he is a Malay or a Malaysian first.[2] However, Muhyiddin retorted although he is Malay first, but that doesn't mean he being Malay is not Malaysian.[3] The Prime Minister Datuk Seri Najib Tun Razak has defended Muhyiddin's “Malay first, Malaysian second” assertion and controversial statement even though contradicts to the 1Malaysia concept [4] which talks of "a nation where, it is hoped, every Malaysian perceives himself or herself as Malaysian first, and by race, religion, geographical region or socio-economic background second...". [5]
Muhyiddin brewed a storm again on 12 April 2010 by calling the members of a new inter-faith committee 'small fry'[6][7], causing strong reaction from the public and uproar from the Malaysian Consultative Council of Buddhism, Christianity, Hinduism, Sikhism and Taoism (MCCBCHST) to back off from joining the committee for the time being.[8] But Muhyiddin was quick to deny he ever say that and he was misquoted.[9] Muhyiddin even went to the extend for not being apologetic and uttered 'Yes, I am Malay first and no apologies'.[10]
References
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  1. ^ Will MACC investigate whether Muhyiddin abuse his powers in using RMAF Nuri heli for Umno purposes? By Lim Kit Siang Lim Kit Siang for Malaysia, 17 August 2009.
  2. ^ Muhyiddin: I'm Malay first|Youtube Clip|Malaysiakini|March 31, 2010
  3. ^ Muhyiddin mirrors Umno’s dilemma|Ooi Kee Beng|The Malaysian Insider|Friday 02 April 2010
  4. ^ PM defends Muhyiddin’s ‘Malay first’ statement|The Star|Friday April 2, 2010
  5. ^ 1Malaysia GTP Roadmap
  6. ^ http://202.75.56.183/index.php/opinion/breaking-views/59576-muhyiddins-small-fry-for-faith-the-malaysian-insider Muhyiddin’s small fry for faith — The Malaysian Insider, APRIL 12 2010]
  7. ^ A panel of 'small fry'-Opposition blasts M'sian DPM's comments on inter-faith body, Apr 13, 2010, The Malaysian Insider, Today Online
  8. ^ Religious groups stay as Muhyiddin brews a storm, By Marc Jitab, Tue 13 Apr 2010, Free Malaysia Today
  9. ^ Muhyiddin denies remark, By Teo Cheng Wee, Apr 14, 2010, The Straits Times
  10. ^ [http://malaysiakini.com/news/129299 DPM: 'Yes, I am Malay first and no apologies', by Regina Lee 15 Apr 2010, Malaysiakini]

should be removed from the article. It seems as though this article is archiving all his misdoings. These are petty issues and will be forgotten before we know it. Even Gordon Brown's 'bigoted woman' remark didn't warrant inclusion to his article (the discussion on that here [1]). - Yk (talk) 05:47, 4 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

While I agree that the first and three paragraphs are trivial in nature I think the second paragraph is monumental and should remain as it could be the turning point in the failure or success of PM Najib's 1Malaysia concept. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.153.110.5 (talk) 15:48, 7 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

By his own statement Muhyiddin does not qualify to have the adjective Malaysian applied to his name but only Malay. In his own words it can be deduced that he is not proud to be Malaysian in anything. He is only proud to be a Malay. Therefore he is NOT a Malaysian politician. He is ONLY a Malay politician. However, in order to be consistent with the description of all politicians in Malaysia in Wikipedia articles, he has to be described as a Malaysian politician but the word Malaysian should be qualified by putting it within inverted commas or it would be a travesty of facts. It is inconceivable how someone (surely a supporter of his and not an objective chronicler) keeps on hiding this fact. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.207.231.117 (talk) 01:10, 27 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I have changed it to a "Malay Malaysian" politician in keeping with Muhyiddin's own words that he is a Malay first and Malaysian second. What is wrong with that? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.207.231.117 (talk) 21:57, 28 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The opening sentence is used to identify a subject's nationality, as with nearly all other biographical articles. As for his self-identification, that can be discussed in subsequent sections. I don't see the point of making a big fuss of it in the lead section. If it were such an earth-shaking issue, this would be highlighted extensively in the media. As it is, this is no more than regular racial politics in Malaysia that caused a minor furore for a few weeks. Wikipedia is not a WP:SOAPBOX, and we are dedicated to encyclopedic information, not petty semantics.- — Yk ʏк yƙ  talk ~ contrib 23:29, 28 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
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‎ This article has been revised as part of a large-scale clean-up project of multiple article copyright infringement. (See the investigation subpage) Earlier text must not be restored, unless it can be verified to be free of infringement. For legal reasons, Wikipedia cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or printed material; such additions must be deleted. Contributors may use sources as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences or phrases. Accordingly, the material may be rewritten, but only if it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously. --Mkativerata (talk) 20:57, 18 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Muhyiddin Yassin can NEVER claim to be a Malaysian politician. By his own accounts he has always said that he is Malay first and Malaysian second so as a politician he can ONLY be a Malay politician, NOT a Malaysian politician despite his Deputy Prime Minister post, which is an UMNO post and not really a Malaysian post.77.207.55.191 (talk) 07:32, 31 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Introduction

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"Tan Sri Dato' Haji Muhyiddin bin Mohd. Yassin (born 15 May 1947) is a Malay politician" - Is that a good description for an introduction? Should it instead be changed to 'Malaysian politician'? If it were an article on a Chinese (Malaysian) politician, wouldn't it be weird to write '.... is a Chinese politician' which may cause confusion? Usws (talk) 16:34, 19 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Whatever the proper adjective form is, feel free to correct it. Active Banana ( bananaphone 16:36, 19 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I fully agree with what you said (that Malaysian politicians of whatever racial origin should be described as "Malaysian politicians" and not as Malay, Chinese or Indian politicians) but Muhyiddin Yassin's case is a particular one and only applies to him and to no other Malaysian politicians of Malay origin. Muhyiddin Yassin can NEVER claim to be a Malaysian politician. By his own accounts he has shouted loud and clear that he is Malay first and Malaysian second so as a politician he can ONLY be a Malay politician, NOT a Malaysian politician - despite his Deputy Prime Minister post, which, to all intents and purposes, is an UMNO post. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.207.55.191 (talk) 07:40, 31 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

He's a Malaysian full stop. Whatever he said as part of his political maneuvers does not alter the fact that he, by all means, is a Malaysian politician. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.82.87.10 (talk) 19:00, 20 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

A Chinese Malaysian who claims himself to be a Chinese first and a Malaysian second is no Malaysian. An Indian Malaysian who claims himself to be an Indian first and a Malaysian second is no Malaysian. Similarly a Malay Malaysian who claims himself to be a Malay first and a Malaysian second is no Malaysian. Can you imagine Obama claiming himself to be a Black first and an American second? Muhyiddin is proud to be a Malay. What is wrong with qualifying him as a Malay politician? Let's not play around with words. Let's call a spade a spade! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.207.55.191 (talk) 06:25, 3 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The fact that this has been brought up before and undone by the same contributor should not be a reason to bury it forever. Muhyiddin being the Deputy PM is a likely candidate for the PM post, the highest post in Malaysia. For a future PM to have this type of "I'm a Malay first, Malaysian second" mentality is untenable. Can you imagine for a second Barrack Obama saying that he is black first and American second? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.207.231.117 (talk) 15:18, 21 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

That would be your own opinion, the WP:WEIGHT of which is not justified by reliable sources available. Also, as a Malaysian I can tell you upfront such statements are hardly shocking. Between 2004 & 2008 UMNO Youth members have said they will bathe their keris in Chinese blood. —Yk Yk Yk  talk ~ contrib 15:26, 21 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

As a non-Malaysian I can see things in a more objective perspective than Malaysians who might have vested interests depending on their ethnic origin. Muhyiddin is the second foremost leader in Umno, the main political party governing Malaysia and his words have more far-reaching consequences and weight than those of members in the Youth wing of his party. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.207.231.117 (talk) 15:42, 21 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

So you think I'm a Malay trying to whitewash Muhyiddin's statement. I assure you I am neither. As explained before tediously, this issue is already raised in the body of the article, giving it it's due weight. Inserting it in the lead leads to neutrality concerns. I know you do this with objective intentions, but to include such a heavily negative statement is a serious matter, and would require you to build consensus among the community first. I suggest you get everyone's attention here: Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Malaysia. —Yk Yk Yk  talk ~ contrib 16:02, 21 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

What you consider to be "a heavily negative statement" is in fact not necessarily so. In fact, seeing that Malays are the majority race in the country it could even be regarded as a "heavily positive statement" for Muhyiddin, though that is not what we are concerned about here. We are talking here about the Deputy Prime Minister of a country, in other words the number two of the country, not simply anybody who is entitled to his personal opinion. If the number two of a country says that he is prouder of his race than his nationality then this information must be highlighted in an encyclopedic article on him (and not hidden somewhere at the bottom of the article). This is not semantics. It has as much relevance in helping us to understand the man as to say that he was born on 15 May 1947. (On the same basis of your argument why is his age so important as to justify its appearance on the very first line?) - 77.207.231.117 (talk) 20:22, 21 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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8th Prime Minsiter

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Sources that explicitly refer to Muhyiddin as the 8th Prime Minister;

"Muhyiddin is Malaysia's 8th Prime Minister [NSTTV]" https://www.nst.com.my/news/politics/2020/02/570389/muhyiddin-malaysias-8th-prime-minister-nsttv

Muhyiddin Yassin PM ke-8 Malaysia, Mahathir: Pengkhianat! (Muhyiddin Yassin is the 8th PM of Malaysia, Mahathir: Traitor!) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PJnVm0Ytvc

"Istiadat angkat sumpah PM ke-8" (Swearing in ceremony for 8th PM) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYuosZHu17k&ab_channel=HarianMetro

"Istiadat angkat sumpah Perdana Menteri ke-8" (Swearing in ceremony for the 8th Prime Minister) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZIpxZFknc4

"Kabinet PM ke-8: Pilih sebab layak, bakat bukan 'hadiah politik'" (8th PM's cabinet: Choose members based on qualification, not as "political gifts") http://www.astroawani.com/video-malaysia/kabinet-pm-ke-8-pilih-sebab-layak-bakat-bukan-hadiah-politik-1836493

"Muhyiddin PM ke-8" (Muhyiddin is the 8th PM) https://www.bharian.com.my/berita/nasional/2020/02/660637/muhyiddin-pm-ke-8

"8th PM to be sworn in at 10.30am today" https://www.nst.com.my/news/politics/2020/03/570499/8th-pm-be-sworn-1030am-today

Sources that refer to the successor (whoever that may be) to Mahathir as the 8th PM;

"Kedudukan Anwar sebagai PM ke-8 telah dipersetujui - Khalid Samad" (Position of Anwar as the 8th PM has been agreed upon - Khalid Samad) http://www.astroawani.com/berita-politik/kedudukan-anwar-sebagai-pm-ke-8-telah-dipersetujui-khalid-samad-230769

Sources that refer to Mahathir as the 7th PM;

"Mahathir sworn in as Malaysia's 7th Prime Minister" https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/se-asia/mahathir-sworn-in-as-7th-malaysian-pm

"Dr M sworn in as nation’s seventh PM" https://www.thestar.com.my/news/nation/2018/05/11/dr-m-sworn-in-as-nations-seventh-pm-he-is-also-the-first-to-become-premier-twice

"Australian senator sends congratulatory message to Tun M, Malaysia's 7th PM" https://www.nst.com.my/news/nation/2018/05/368235/australian-senator-sends-congratulatory-message-tun-m-malaysias-7th-pm

"Tun M swears in as 7th Prime Minister today" https://www.nst.com.my/news/politics/2018/05/367888/tun-m-swears-7th-prime-minister-today

Recent sources that refer to Mahathir as the 4th PM;

"Najib on Chinese arrival ban: Does 7th PM know what 4th PM did?" https://www.malaysiakini.com/news/508596 (Mahathir served as the country’s fourth prime minister from 1981 to 2003 when he led BN. He returned as the seventh prime minister after the 14th general election in 2018, this time as the head of the Harapan government.)

Mewulwe

Since you have insinuated that we can't rely on news sources for numbering, here are scholarly alternatives;
https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/7bd0/89a3d3163453cf7dd86a2da286748b8bf6f5.pdf - refers to Mahathir as 4th PM, 1997
https://muse.jhu.edu/article/399606/summary - refers to Mahathir as 4th PM, 2006
Malaysian Politics Under Mahathir, By Diane K. Mauzy, R. S. Milne - refers to Mahathir as 4th PM, 1999
Beyond Mahathir, by Boo Teik Kho - refers to Mahathir as 4th PM, 2003
https://as.ucpress.edu/content/43/1/147.abstract - refers to Mahathir as 4th PM, (publised) 2003 (written in 2002, or so it seems)
https://as.ucpress.edu/content/45/1/153.abstract - refers to Badawi (Mahathir's successor) as 5th PM, 2005
Malaysia: Recent Trends and Challenges, by Saw Swee Hock, K. Kesavapany - refers to Badawi as 5th PM, 2005
https://www.jstor.org/stable/27913383 - refers to Badawi as 5th PM, 2009
Abdullah Ahmad Badawi: perjalanan politik PM ke-5, Chamil Wariya - refers to Badawi as 5th PM, 2004
https://www.tmc.upd.edu.ph/index.php/kasarinlan/article/view/472 - refers to Badawi as 5th PM, 2004
https://muse.jhu.edu/article/429574/summary - refers to Najib (Badawi's successor) as 6th PM, 2010
https://dr.ntu.edu.sg/handle/10356/90524 - refers to Najib as 6th PM, 2009
https://as.ucpress.edu/content/50/1/173.abstract - refers to Najib as 6th PM, 2010
https://heinonline.org/hol-cgi-bin/get_pdf.cgi?handle=hein.journals/jpola2&section=52 - refers to Najib as 6th PM, 2009
https://my.ippbm.gov.my/images/MJYS/2009/MJYS%20Vol%201%20June%202009-71-84.pdf - refers to Najib as 6th PM, 2009
Mewulwe
The multiplicity of sources (even scholarly ones) in itself does not say much, especially as most of them are notably from the time Wikipedia displayed those numbers. The particular problem in the Malaysian case is that until 2018, when Mahathir became the first PM to serve a second non-consecutive period, the numbering was rather unambiguous (so long as you count from the actual beginning of Malaysia in 1963 rather than independent Malaya in 1957), so these numbers may have been occasionally used in a matter-of-fact way. But from 2018 there is no objective numbering - you could either count Mahathir only once, or give him a new number. So who decided that and when? It seems Wikipedia arbitrarily went ahead, copying the U.S. tradition (Grover Cleveland being counted twice), and listed him as the 7th on day one. Even if Mahathir himself now uses that, he probably just went along with the media which just went along with Wikipedia. Which just makes it one of those cases of Wikipedia creating rather than reporting reality. It may be too late now in this case, but this is not how things should happen. Mewulwe (talk) 17:39, 18 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
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