Talk:Marilou Awiakta

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Eastern Band Cherokee claim

@User:ARoseWolf The source that you removed says that Awiakta is "Not an enrolled member, but a woman with clear Eastern Band heritage". I'm not sure why that source should be omitted or why the article shouldn't state that she isn't an EBCI citizen. Her non-citizenship is also mentioned in this book. I'll look for further details about her Cherokee heritage claims. Here she claims, amid musings about her "black hair and high cheek bones", that her mother was part of the Deer Clan of the Overhill Cherokee of Tenasi. In Ms. Magazine she claims that her mother Wilma McCormack Bonham was Cherokee; I see no mention of any Cherokee ancestry on her father's side. Here and here she claims her first name means "eye of the deer" and was given to her by her (presumably maternal) "Cherokee" grandfather. Around 10:00 into this video she mentions her ordained Methodist minister grandfather and claims "the Cherokee comes through his side". That grandfather's name was Rev. W. A. McCormack. Suprising no one, both of the "Cherokee" reverend's parents Sarah and John are listed as "white" on the US census. The Baker Roll doesn't include any of these names; no McCormacks are listed, nor any Burks. Her ancestors aren't on the Dawes Rolls either. Bohemian Baltimore (talk) 10:42, 30 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I removed because there was a refutation that she is not an enrolled member but I do not see a source where she ever claimed to be an enrolled member. It is not a due statement for a BLP where the subject never makes the claim in the first place. Lot's of people claim to be descended from Cherokee because it is one of if not the largest in the country. There can be a statement that she claims to be descended from Cherokee and then provide the sources you mention that refute that claim but to say someone is not a member when they have never claimed to be is undue. You have refutation for something never claimed in a BLP. --ARose Wolf 11:27, 30 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@ARoseWolf Why is it necessary for there to be a source where she claims to be an Eastern Band citizen? At least two sources I've seen mention that she isn't a citizen in the context of discussing her Cherokee self-identification. If it is from a reliable source, I think it is perfectly valid for the reader to know that she isn't a Cherokee citizen, as multiple sources discuss. That's relevant information. I'm not certain that Andrea Smith or Elizabeth Warren ever claimed to be a citizen of a tribe, but I don't think anyone could claim that's irrelevant. Is your objection to the mention of Awiakta's non-citizenship the phrasing or word choice? Its inclusion at all? Bohemian Baltimore (talk) 11:49, 30 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Neither on Andrea Smith nor Elizabeth Warren do we see the statement that either is not a member of the EBCI. Why do you think that is? Because they never made the claim. I did not say irrelevant so please do not put words in my mouth. I said it was undue which is a Wikipedia term. Undue means that the statement has to meet a threshold of weight. Such a precise and heavy statement does not meet that because there is no opposing statement, no claim to refute. The subject has never claimed to be a member of the EBCI. However, a sentence that would be appropriate would be like one included on Andre Smith, "Since at least 1991, Smith has publicly claimed to be Cherokee although she has never been enrolled in any federally recognized Cherokee tribe, and no Cherokee ancestry has ever been found for her." Something like this would be due in the article because the claim of Cherokee ancestry has been made and the subject has profited off those claims. --ARose Wolf 17:22, 30 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You can then add some of the sources where the subject claims Cherokee ancestry and then include some the sources you provided here that refute this. Leave out any original research that you know but cant find a reliable source to refute. You can even add the source back about the subject not being a member of the EBCI. This would cover all the basis and present a NPOV. --ARose Wolf 17:48, 30 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]