Talk:Lydian–Milesian War

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A fact from Lydian–Milesian War appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 3 May 2023 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that tyrant Thrasybulus of Miletus ended the 12-year Lydian–Milesian War with a fake party?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2023/May. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Lydian–Milesian War.

Wikipedia

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by BorgQueen (talk) 17:23, 1 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

(

Comment or view
Article history

)

... that the tyrant Thrasybulus of Miletus ended the twelve-year Lydian–Milesian War with a fake party? Source: Bennet, C.E.; Frontinus (1 January 1925). Frontinus: Stratagems. Aqueducts of Rome. (Loeb Classical Library No. 174). Harvard University Press. p. 254. ISBN 978-0674991927. Retrieved 23 March 2023.
- ALT1: ... that the tyrant Thrasybulus of Miletus tricked the Lydian king Alyattes into ending the Lydian–Milesian War with a party? Source: Bennet, C.E.; Frontinus (1 January 1925). Frontinus: Stratagems. Aqueducts of Rome. (Loeb Classical Library No. 174). Harvard University Press. p. 254. ISBN 978-0674991927. Retrieved 23 March 2023.
- Reviewed:
- Comment: Hi, I'm not sure if I formatted this right since I've never done this before. A fellow editor recommended me to do this. I'm not certain I phrased the hook correctly, any feedback is welcome. Thanks!

Created by GeneralCraft65 (talk). Self-nominated at 10:19, 5 April 2023 (UTC). Post-promotion hook changes for this nom will be logged at Template talk:Did you know nominations/Lydian-Milesian War; consider watching this nomination, if it is successful, until the hook appears on the Main Page.[reply]

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy compliance:

Adequate sourcing: - n
Neutral:
Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:

Hook eligibility:

Cited: - ?
Interesting:

QPQ: None required.

Overall: @GeneralCraft65: So exciting to welcome a new editor to the DYK fold!

A couple of quick notes here -- DYK requires that every paragraph have at least one source, and I see a couple in the Aftermath section and at least one in the Prelude section that needs at least one to be present. Second, the hook itself isn't cited outside of a quote (I'd just copy the citation because it does appear there) and then also note that the article doesn't say "party". It more refers to a... banquet, in the quote? I'd make sure it's added into the prose outside of it and cited appropriately. Either way, a fascinating read and terrific work, happy to answer follow-up questions. Once those issues have been addressed, will be happy to pass! Nomader (talk) 22:37, 5 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, in reviewing my DYK you made two points for improvement;

every paragraph has to have at least one source
the hook itself isn't cited outside of a quote [...] and then also note that the article doesn't say "party".

I believe I have completed the first point, but perhaps I missed something.

As for the second point, I'm not sure I quite understood the first part. Should I write an additional paragraph explaining the quote in the article. And concerning the second part, I believe that a party/celebration was meant: "[he] bade the men of Miletus all drink and revel together when he should give the word." (Herodotus Histories Vol. I of the Loeb Classical Library edition,

1920, p.25); "[he] told the men of Miletus all to drink and celebrate together when he gave the word." (Herodotus, with an English translation by A. D. Godley. Cambridge. Harvard University Press. 1920.); "[he] issued an order that the Milesians should hold themselves in readiness, and, when he gave the signal, should, one and all, fall to drinking and revelry." (Herodotus, Histories, translated by George Rawlinson)

I chose the word 'party' as a translation of 'revelry' since it is more modern and adds to the intrigue of the story.

However, the Greek word used (κώμῳ) means something along the lines of feast, or as you put it, banquet, but also 'drinkgelag' (it's a Dutch dictionary, apologies) which means 'drinking party'

Please let me know what else I have to improve (In general too, this is my first real in-depth article, and although I'm quite happy with the C-grade it received, I would love to get an even higher rating). Many thanks, and we'll be in touch!

P.S. I wasn't sure if this was the right place to contact you, please say so if there is another place. Cheers GeneralCraft65 (talk) 16:47, 6 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@GeneralCraft65: You're quite alright! I've moved your comment to the DYK nomination page here so the history can be viewed by anyone who's passing by (or who's eventually promoting the hook too). There's a few things I'd say here:

The hook itself needs to be present in the prose of the article. Specifically, the DYK rules say that it must be "a definite fact that is mentioned in the article," and "the fact in the hook must be supported in the article by at least one inline citation to a reliable source, appearing no later than the end of the sentence(s) offering that fact. Citations at the end of the paragraph are not sufficient. This rule applies even when a citation would not be required for the purposes of the article."
In this case, there should be a sentence outside of the quote from Histories that says that the tyrant ended the war with a fake party (you can use a more appropriate word here, I agree that "party" is more hook-y).

For other notes about the article that aren't relevant for this DYK review, I'll respond back to you on my talk page and ping you there (you should get a notification once I've responded -- I'm happy to help!). Once you've added a reference to a sentence that cites it, I'm good to approve here! Nomader (talk) 04:15, 7 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@GeneralCraft65: Hey GeneralCraft! Wanted to ping you here -- any questions about my comments above? This is a terrific article and I don't think the changes need to be that major, would be happy to answer any follow-ups you might have here! Nomader (talk) 05:15, 26 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Was pinged by @GeneralCraft65: on my personal talk to follow-up here. I'm unable to review the Rawlinson source, but the rest of them check out (hence the assume good faith tick)! I'd prefer the first hook here, think it's more hook-y. Well done on these improvements! Nomader (talk) 17:38, 30 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]