Talk:Lorde/Archive 2

Archive 1

Archive 2

Instruments

Can someone please explain why exactly everyone is against adding ", guitar<ref name="White">{{cite web|url=http://pigeonsandplanes.com/2013/05/taking-flight-16-year-old-ella-yelich-oconnor-vs-lorde-popstar| title=Taking Flight: 16-Year-Old Ella Yelich-O'Connor vs. Lorde, Popstar| last=White| first=Caitlin| publisher=Pigeons and Planes| date=21 May 2013|accessdate=18 August 2013}}</ref>" to the article? First of all, I'm sure that people who are versed in the history of her career know it's true. Second of all, that article is a secondary source proving it to be true. Third of all, the fact that she doesn't play guitar on record is not a good enough reason OR a decent excuse to remove it. Also twisting the words in the Early Life section to remove all mentions of the fact isn't clever at all. It's just immature. Dankyhashpants (talk) 22:17, 23 June 2014 (UTC)

See {{Infobox musical artist#instrument}}: "Instruments listed in the infobox should be limited to only those that the artist is primarily known for using. The instruments infobox parameter is not intended as a WP:COATRACK for every instrument the subject has ever used." Mentioning it briefly in prose may be acceptable, but personally I'd want to see a more reliable source than Pigeons & Planes. Adabow (talk) 02:06, 3 July 2014 (UTC)

• • That is literally the dumbest rule I have ever read. Why wouldn't you list them all? That's just misleading and a bit dishonest to readers, seriously. Also I like how you avoided comment on the other issue I mentioned. Cheers. Dankyhashpants (talk) 15:12, 6 July 2014 (UTC)

It would be misleading to readers to list guitar when she doesn't use guitar on stage or on record. Which issue did I fail to comment on? Adabow (talk) 22:47, 6 July 2014 (UTC)

• • • • That makes no sense whatsoever. Just because she doesn't play guitar on stage or on record doesn't mean it's not important to make light of. You failed to comment on the fact that words were twisted in the Early Life section to remove mentions of her playing guitar. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dankyhashpants (talk • contribs) 01:59, 7 July 2014 (UTC)

It does mean it's not important to include, because it's not important to her career. If Tony Blair played a little bit of piano, would you include that on his biography? To include it would be giving undue weight to it. See also Wikipedia:But it's true! The guitar has been completely removed from the article precisely because it is unimportant (and also because no reliable source backs it up, but that's a secondary reason). Adabow (talk) 02:48, 7 July 2014 (UTC)

• • • • • • How is the use of a tool(in this case, a musical instrument) in someone's(O'Connor's) career(songwriting), especially in the beginning of her career as a songwriter, unimportant? Also, I'm still not understanding what makes the interview unreliable. Dankyhashpants (talk) 18:15, 7 July 2014 (UTC)

• • • • • • • But Lorde is not known for playing the guitar. None of her musical releases features Lorde playing the guitar, nor does she play it onstage. Simon (talk) 09:30, 8 July 2014 (UTC)

• • • • • • • • Agreed. Can someone please close this silly discussion? Viriditas (talk) 01:36, 24 July 2014 (UTC)

Looking toward GA

There's still a way to go in terms of formatting, but how do people feel about the article's breadth? I have removed a fair bit of trivial information and think we're nearly there, but I do tend to be quite heavy-handed with my trimming. I would be grateful for any other opinions. I'll begin with the MoS cleanup and verifying references and their reliability now. Adabow (talk) 08:21, 6 July 2014 (UTC)

Count me in! I'll clean up the "Career" section. Simon (talk) 08:25, 6 July 2014 (UTC

Why is there no 'Awards & Nominations' section for Lorde? I like how Adele's page is set up. Can someone please add 'Awards & Nominations' please. It paints an accurate picture of what Lorde has achieved past year. 115.188.60.86 (talk) 05:26, 13 August 2014 (UTC)

How do we nominate this for GA status, as I have seen it evolve over time and it is looking excellent at the moment? Much respect to all of the copyeditors who worked on this! Regards,--Soulparadox (talk) 07:21, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

Instructions for nomination.--Lapadite (talk) 09:40, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

I should point out (as I just checked) that it's already listed as a GA. --Lapadite (talk) 15:53, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

Sick! Regards,--Soulparadox (talk) 15:58, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 7 July 2014

"Her debut work The Love Club EP was commercially released in March 2014 and included the song "Royals", which became an international crossover hit and won two Grammy Awards.

March 2014 should be March 2013. Please change the above text to the following:

Her debut work The Love Club EP was commercially released in March 2013 and included the song "Royals", which became an international crossover hit and won two Grammy Awards. 199.98.20.174 (talk) 17:03, 7 July 2014 (UTC)

Done Sam ^Sing! 17:27, 7 July 2014 (UTC)

Genres

Why would we reduce these genres, when we have no sources saying pop or rock, as these subgenres are quite different. For example if a band is Indie Rock, you won't say it is a rock band. Honestly I think it's misleading and doesn't tell the whole story. Gati123 (talk) 08:43, 14 July 2014 (UTC)

It's inherent that electronic rock is a subgenre of rock music, and likewise dream pop of pop music. The infobox isn't meant to "tell the whole story", but to provide a brief summary of Lorde. Adabow (talk) 11:28, 14 July 2014 (UTC)

Dream pop is a subgenre of alternatiṿe rock, doesn't make it that more logic to keep alternative rock as a genreGati123 (talk) 12:57, 14 July 2014 (UTC)

Alt rock is itself a subgenre of rock. Again, Template:Infobox musical artist#genre tells us to aim for generality; the specific subgenres can be (and are) discussed further in the article body. Adabow (talk) 21:01, 14 July 2014 (UTC)

This discussion keeps coming up. In theory, the infobox template might recommend one thing, however in practice, we use the subgenres. It is not helpful to the reader to describe her music as pop and rock. Viriditas (talk) 22:16, 19 July 2014 (UTC)

The trouble is that we have six genres (art pop, dream pop, electronica, electropop, electronic rock, alternative rock) describing Lorde's music, which is a bit excessive. A compromise could be: pop, electronica, alternative rock. Adabow (talk) 22:40, 19 July 2014 (UTC)

We don't need top-level genres like "pop" in the infobox. That's really not helpful and I don't understand why it keeps getting added. Viriditas (talk) 04:55, 20 July 2014 (UTC)

How is it unhelpful? Adabow (talk) 13:29, 20 July 2014 (UTC)

Because the relevant subgenres already point to pop. As a result, I can't imagine why it is necessary to include it. Viriditas (talk) 02:17, 21 July 2014 (UTC)

We don't include the subgenres in the infobox (as is the status quo), and just group art pop, dream pop and electropop together as pop. That cuts the number of genres from six to three. Adabow (talk) 03:09, 21 July 2014 (UTC)

I've had this discussion with several editors. The consensus based on practice (not on template instructions) is that we in fact do include the subgenres in the infobox, and most of our GA/FA article work reflects this. Therefore, the template instructions should be changed to reflect best practice, not the other way around. In other words, we should not group the subgenres under a top-level category, as that disinforms the reader and provides no useful information. Viriditas (talk) 03:54, 21 July 2014 (UTC)

The infobox is not meant to provide every single detail, but is rather a summary of some key facts at a glance (see also WP:IBX). Listing six subgenres is excessive. For readers who have not heard of Lorde and/or art pop and dream pop, summarising her work as "pop, rock and electronica" is effective, and does provide useful information. For readers who want more depth on her work, they can find it in the musical style section. That's simplification, not misinforming. If the genre field is used more extensively in practice, as you claim, perhaps it would be wise for us to begin a discussion at Template talk:Infobox musical artist to resolve the wider issue, rather than intensely debating this single case. Adabow (talk) 04:56, 21 July 2014 (UTC)

The problem with your argument is twofold: 1) in practice, we don't simplify genres in the infobox in our best GA/FA articles, we drill down to subgenres 2) the same thing holds for categories. We don't simplify categories in our articles, we drill down into the best subcategories. Once again, there is a disconnect between the theory outlined in the template, which is demonstrably incorrect in practice, and the many examples of our finest articles ignoring "simplification" of genres, for the same reason we do not include top-level categories in our articles. I'm surprised that something this simple and obvious needs to be continually discussed. Viriditas (talk) 01:34, 24 July 2014 (UTC)

Isn't it more logic to use 'electropop' so that it becomes: Electronica, electropop, rock: as only one subgenre descents from pop, dream pop descents from alternative rock and art pop from art rock?Gati123 (talk) 07:40, 21 July 2014 (UTC)

Art rock is a subgenre of art rock and pop. Dream pop descends from alternative rock and pop rock, so summarising all of these as pop and rock keeps things simple. [[User:|Adabow]] (talk) 10:50, 21 July 2014 (UTC)

I can't find any reliable source saying that dream pop is a pop rock sub genre, the Wikipedia page says quite clearly 'dream pop is a sub genre of alternative rock'Gati123 (talk) 11:53, 21 July 2014 (UTC)

If so there are still no reasons not to mention pop, rock. Simon (talk) 12:56, 21 July 2014 (UTC)

well, as art pop is a sub genre of art rock it's far more logic to discredit Pop and to only use electro pop insteadGati123 (talk) 16:17, 21 July 2014 (UTC)

Yes, I agree. Viriditas (talk) 01:34, 24 July 2014 (UTC)

There is no consistency with Artists on Wiki - Pop and Rock is too generalized. Why should Lorde's genres be reduced to this instead of being more specific when we have Lana Del Rey's Wiki page stating 'Dream Pop, Baroque Pop...' etc??? You are being unreasonably unfair with Lorde's page...if you're going to reduce it to just Pop and/or Rock, then be consistent and do the same with Lana Del Rey's page.115.188.60.86 (talk) 08:08, 12 September 2014 (UTC)

Protected edit request on 19 July 2014

In the subsection "2011–13: The Love Club EP and Pure Heroine", there should be a comma after Morningside, Auckland, in the same way Devonport, Auckland, is formatted in the lead. Viriditas (talk) 10:38, 19 July 2014 (UTC)

 Done Ruslik_Zero 19:27, 19 July 2014 (UTC)

Awards

Can someone add an awards article with a link to the awards main article — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wikidon1 (talk • contribs) 14:22, 19 July 2014 (UTC)

In the navbox at the bottom of the article there is a link to List of awards and nominations received by Lorde. Adabow (talk) 22:08, 19 July 2014 (UTC)

Why can you not just have an 'Awards & Nominations' section for Lorde like you do for Adele? Shouldn't the layout for all music artists be consistent? 115.188.60.86 (talk) 05:33, 13 August 2014 (UTC)

picture from lollapalooza 2014 is incorrect.

Umm, I am watching Lollapalooza streaming live, and the picture purporting to show her performing at lollapalooza 2014 can't be right. For one thing, that's not the same outfit she is wearing right now... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.80.99.157 (talk) 00:17, 2 August 2014 (UTC)

That is the exact one (Google Images Search). Simon (talk) 10:29, 3 August 2014 (UTC)

There is so much in depth information and detail on the artist Adele's page, including an 'Awards & Nominations' section...which is glaringly and obviously missing from Lorde's page...why is that? How can I go about providing you with all the relevant information missing including 'references' so that her page can be updated to reflect a genuine detailed description of Lorde, her career and achievements thus far? 115.188.60.86 (talk) 05:37, 13 August 2014 (UTC)

sub headline 'List of Awards and Nominations'

Hi all, just wondering what happened to the 'Awards & Nominations' section for Lorde and why it was removed? There is no link to particular page anywhere on her page. Can someone please add a section for Lorde, just like they have on Adele's and Lana Del Rey's pages? It is vital in portraying a more accurate picture of all Lorde's achievements and successes thus far in this infancy of her music career. 115.188.60.86 (talk) 04:42, 19 August 2014 (UTC)Hanna115.188.60.86 (talk) 04:42, 19 August 2014 (UTC)

Addition to Section '2014 - Present: Second studio album

Hi in the section '2014 - Present: Second studio album', can we please amend final sentence to say "On 1st August 2014, Lorde performed at Lollapalooza again in Grant Park, Chicago where she was named the 'Best of the Fest' by Rolling Stone magazine. Lorde performed on the third day of the Osheaga Music & Arts Festival in Parc Jean-Drapeau, Montreal on 3rd August 2014 where she gave arguably the most emotional performance of the weekend and according to Stereogum, a powerhouse performance, selling her introspective art pop with total conviction. 115.188.60.86 (talk) 00:29, 2 September 2014 (UTC)

References

Semi-protected edit request on 2 September 2014

In the section '2014 - Present: Second studio album', can we please amend final sentence to say "On 1st August 2014, Lorde performed at Lollapalooza again, this time in Grant Park, Chicago where she was named the 'Best of the Fest' by Rolling Stone magazine. [1] Lorde performed on the third day of the Osheaga Music & Arts Festival in Parc Jean-Drapeau, Montreal on 3rd August 2014 where she gave arguably the most emotional performance of the weekend [2] and according to Stereogum, a powerhouse performance, selling her introspective art pop with total conviction. [3] 115.188.60.86 (talk) 21:57, 2 September 2014 (UTC)

Not done: That language is way too promotional in tone. It looks like the section has changed structure somewhat since this was requested as well. -- ferret (talk) 00:10, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

Sources

• Wall Street Journal
• NZ Herald: "I can't play guitar; I am pretty bad at piano. I just bought a bunch of vintage Casiotone synths, because you can only play two keys at once. But up to this point, I've been writing vocally and coming up with chord progressions vocally."

Simon (talk) 13:45, 9 September 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 16 September 2014

Please change 'She explains her disdain towards women wearing provocative lingerie and opining that "I’m sick of women being portrayed this way."[62]' to: Unafraid to speak her mind and a self-described feminist amid a generation of sexualized young pop stars who routinely strip down, Lorde is being heralded as a role model for young girls—a fact she finds very strange. “People like to paint me in a certain way, but I’m a hugely sex-positive person and I have nothing against anyone getting naked. For me personally I just don’t think it really would complement my music in any way or help me tell a story any better. It’s not like I have a problem with dancing around in undies—I think you can use that stuff in a hugely powerful way. It just hasn’t felt necessary for me.” http://www.vmagazine.com/site/content/1997/praise-the-lorde The text to be replaced is inaccurate, whereas the V Magazine interview consists of a direct quote from Lorde herself. Please amend, thank you. 115.188.60.86 (talk) 11:23, 16 September 2014 (UTC)m 115.188.60.86 (talk) 11:23, 16 September 2014 (UTC)

Partly done: I've removed the original sentence, which I agree is an inaccurate reflection of the source. As for your suggested replacement, I don't see the need for such a long quote—but if other editors think it should be included too, I certainly won't object. —Granger (talk · contribs) 20:54, 18 September 2014 (UTC)

 Done Very useful information. Thank you for your comment. Much appreciated, Simon (talk) 11:56, 19 September 2014 (UTC)

Her Age

Interesting that neither the article nor this talk page (inc. the archive) mention the controversy regarding her age, given all the reliable sources, including International Business Times[1], USA Today[2], The Huffington Post[3], The Washington Post[4], and so on. I guess it's not noteworthy enough? --82.136.210.153 (talk) 00:01, 4 October 2014 (UTC)

That's an April Fools Day joke. No reason why it should be mentioned in the article.-gadfium 02:04, 4 October 2014 (UTC)

The quote about the books she has read.

She talks about how her parents gave her a combination of adult and children books and "I remember reading Feed by M.T. Anderson when I was six, and her giving me Salinger and Carver at a young age, and Janet Frame really young too". Should this quote be added? Feed came out in 2004, she would have been 7, before even saying this she should have researched, if someone is trying to make them self seem smarter they should at least get the facts right. This quote just kind of makes her seem unintelligent and makes her look bad. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.26.163.208 (talk) 03:37, 21 October 2014 (UTC)

Hmm. The Feed article says it was published in 2002. Hoof Hearted (talk) 19:06, 21 October 2014 (UTC)

Lorde photos image concerns

Please see Commons:Commons:Village_pump#Kirk_Stauffer_photo_copyright_concerns. — Cirt (talk) 15:49, 6 November 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 8 December 2014

This page is about the New Zealand singer. For other uses, see Lorde (disambiguation).

Not to be confused with Lordi.

{{Infobox musical artist | name = Lorde | image = Lorde Laneway 7 (cropped).jpg | image_size = | landscape = | alt = Lorde in a black outfit and smiling | caption = Lorde at the 2014 Sydney Laneway Festival | background = solo_singer | birth_name = Ella Marija Lani Yelich-O'Connor | birth_date = (1996-11-07) 7 November 1996 | birth_place = Takapuna, Auckland, New Zealand

| genre =

• Art pop
• dream pop
• indie pop
• electropop
• indietronica

| occupation = Singer, songwriter | instrument = Vocals 74.59.105.34 (talk) 01:08, 8 December 2014 (UTC)

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. — {{U|Technical 13}} ^{(e • t • c)} 01:52, 8 December 2014 (UTC)

I removed the text in the alt section for the image. Why do we want this? It's completely redundant and obvious that A) she's in black and B) she's smiling. It's pointless.Vhamtnof (talk) 19:29, 18 July 2015 (UTC)

Indietronica, Indie-electro issue

@Gati123 and HĐ: Discuss disagreement on talk page. Gati123, if the article uses Indie-electro, then it should be cited as such. Indie-electro already redirects to Indietronica. --Lapadite (talk) 21:55, 16 March 2015 (UTC)

Thanks, Lapadite77. @Gati123: Indietronica is obviously not mentioned in the article (in this review, the writer writes "it's harder to explain how a sparse, down-beat brand of nuanced indie-electro can fill stadiums all over the world.") Furthermore, electro is obviously NOT a short form of electronica. HĐ (talk) 05:04, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

my bad, please close this silly discussionGati123 (talk) 08:49, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

If needed

• http://web.archive.org/web/20150209175618/http://www.npr.org/blogs/bestmusic2013/2013/12/04/248864263/lorde-sounds-like-teen-spirit
• http://web.archive.org/web/20141012032823/http://www.theguardian.com/music/2013/oct/10/lorde-just-freak-royals-pure-heroine

HĐ (talk) 14:01, 18 March 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 1 December 2015

Birth name is Randy Marsh 96.42.78.230 (talk) 22:31, 1 December 2015 (UTC)

 Not done No, it's not. General Ization ^Talk 22:32, 1 December 2015 (UTC)

So this article is semi-protected, but it still has South Park references in it. ie it says her birth name is Randy Marsh which is from the show. Very funny, but can someone fix it? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.111.186.42 (talk) 21:09, 4 December 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 4 December 2015

Please fix birth name and date. She is not 61 years old and her name was not Randy Marsh. That's a joke from South Park. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.111.186.42 (talk) 21:18, December 4, 2015 (UTC)

• Done Thank you. --Stabila711 (talk) 21:27, 4 December 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 27 December 2015

I think that the Discography section is wrong. It only features "Pure Heroine," and not her debut EP "The Love Club," which came out before it. Thank you 202.125.24.175 (talk) 10:45, 27 December 2015 (UTC) 202.125.24.175 (talk) 10:45, 27 December 2015 (UTC)

The discography section starts with a link to Lorde discography, which lists all her releases - because there is s separate discography article, we only normally list the albums in the artist's article - if we listed them all, there would be no point in having a separate discography article - Arjayay (talk) 12:50, 27 December 2015 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Peer review/Lorde/archive2

The editor who opened this appears to be inactive- unless one of the regular editors of this article fancies taking over, perhaps someone could close it so that it's not clogging up the PR page? Josh Milburn (talk) 23:09, 22 January 2016 (UTC)

I've archived the peer review, as it appears to have been abandoned; any regular editors may want to take a look at my comments, especially if you have your eye on FAC. Josh Milburn (talk) 10:41, 27 February 2016 (UTC)

Requested move 5 May 2016

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: No move. There's a very strong consensus that the singer is the primary topic and should remain at the base name. Cúchullain ^t/c 16:09, 13 May 2016 (UTC)

---

Lorde → ? – The history of this title is a bit of a mess. Prior to the creation of this article, Lorde redirected to Audre Lorde, and at one point the disambiguation page is at the base title, and later this article is moved to the base. No formal RM discussion has taken place in the past, so I am starting this RM to determine whether the singer is the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC for "Lorde", and if not, where this article should be moved to. SSTflyer 15:21, 5 May 2016 (UTC)

• Support the change to "?", a very good name for her. But if the recommended name change is something else, Oppose per common name and with a south out to Randy Marsh. Randy Kryn 2:22, 6 May 2016 (UTC)
• Oppose - Lorde is the primarytopic. –Davey2010^Talk 03:10, 6 May 2016 (UTC)
• Oppose. The musical artist is primary topic. General Ization ^Talk 03:15, 6 May 2016 (UTC)
• Oppose. Common/primary topic, indubitably. The previous redirect is irrelevant. That was created years before our Lorde article was created. Moriori (talk) 03:43, 6 May 2016 (UTC)
• Oppose Clearly the primary topic.--3family6 (Talk to me | See what I have done) 04:55, 6 May 2016 (UTC)
• Comment While the OP is correct that there has been no formal RM previously, this was discussed in some detail at Talk:Lorde/Archive 1#Disambiguation. The conclusion at that time (October 2013) was that this article was primary topic; if anything, it has only become more clearly so since then. General Ization ^Talk 20:31, 6 May 2016 (UTC)
• oppose per above. I was not even aware that she is/was called Audrey until visiting this RM, which suggests it’s far removed from being an appropriate common name.--JohnBlackburne^words_deeds 21:22, 6 May 2016 (UTC)
  • Um, ah, that Audre (not Audrey) is a different person altogether. Still though no-one I’ve heard of, vs. the world famous musician, so not ambiguous and still oppose.--JohnBlackburne^words_deeds 21:26, 6 May 2016 (UTC)
• Oppose per WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. Taylor Trescott - ^{my talk} + _{my edits} 02:20, 8 May 2016 (UTC)
• Oppose per COMMONNAME and PRIMARYTOPIC.  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽^ʌⱷ҅_ᴥⱷ^ʌ≼  10:02, 13 May 2016 (UTC)

---

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Image

Did "Lorde" claim that "her public image as [sic] coming "naturally" to her"? Or did she say that the public image was the natural her? These are two completely different things.Royalcourtier (talk) 22:48, 29 June 2016 (UTC)

"Green Light" draft

I don't want the article to be nominated for deletion too soon, so I started a draft for "Green Light" at Draft:Green Light (Lorde song). All are welcome to help expand! ---Another Believer _(Talk) 23:47, 2 March 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 2 June 2017

I'm not an expert on Lorde or her music but she is clearly an unusually talented songwriter and performer, her songs are often outstanding lyrically but they also have considerable musical texture and depth. No doubt she has a very capable team around her but her (apparent) disclosure of here synaesthesia in her May 2017 interview on the Kim Hill show (Radio New Zealand, and available as a podcast on their site), fascinated me and gives an interesting slant on her music and its development.

I was surprised this doesn't seem to be mentioned in the Wiki article, I think that this would interest many readers and, maybe, offer them an interesting insight into the character and quality of her music. Swift-Godwit (talk) 06:12, 2 June 2017 (UTC)

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. —KuyaBriBri^Talk 13:57, 2 June 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 16 June 2017

Jack Antonoff should be added to associated acts. 63.98.63.242 (talk) 21:18, 16 June 2017 (UTC)

Done Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 14:54, 17 June 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 19 August 2017

Can we change the main photo from

File:http://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/File:Lorde Constanza 15 (cropped).jpg

to an updated image, preferably

File:Https://cdn.fashionmagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/fashion-magazine-september-2017-cover-lorde-09-480x320-c-top.jpg

? Blueflickerbeat (talk) 22:59, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

Not done: Invalid image file. JTP ^{(talk • contribs)} 23:18, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

The photo you tried to link to is copyrighted. We can only use photos which are under a suitably free licence. See Commons:Commons:Copyright rules.-gadfium 04:06, 20 August 2017 (UTC)

Heritage

It appears that there are sources which say the Lorde is part Serbian,[5][6]> but she says she is "a little bit Croatian, a little bit Irish" in the first few seconds of the interview here.[7]. I think we should accept her view of her heritage. @Правичност: says in an edit summary that she has claimed Serbian heritage in an interview in Metro. A copy of this interview would help to clear this up.-gadfium 04:16, 27 August 2017 (UTC)

Honestly i havent seen much "youtube refferences" and frankly those that have been used have been removed by other editors. In a source about her family, that i have posted [8], you can read her mother`s father was one of the first generation Serbian immigrants and her family she described as "having Irish and Serbian blood - so there was alot of loud speech also lol" .. something like that .. anyways i dont think youtube should be used as a source, btw she could claim being both; Croatian regionally (like for example "British") and Serbian ethnically (like for example an Englishman) .. as hundreds of thousands of Serbs lived or still live in Croatia; like Nikola Tesla, Rade Serbedzija and many other famous Serbs that came from modern-day Croatia. (Правичност (talk) 16:45, 27 August 2017 (UTC))

The youtube link is an interview with Lorde. What she says is relevant. The junkee.com reference gives quotes from her, but the quotes do not say what she considers her heritage to be. You mentioned an interview in Metro in your earlier edit summary. What she says there might explain if she has changed her view.-gadfium 18:47, 27 August 2017 (UTC)

Yes that`s what the source said, the youtube video i have checked indeed, but as i said, youtube isnt a suitable source for a refference on wikipedia, surely there will be more sources coming about this matter. (Правичност (talk) 01:55, 28 August 2017 (UTC))

She has Croatian citizenship Chernobog95 8:27 GMT 0/1+ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Chernobog95 (talk • contribs) 06:27, 9 September 2017 (UTC)

Palestinians also have Israeli one, Kurds have the Turkish one.. etc. however that doesnt make them Israelis or Turks, for example. (Правичност (talk) 22:58, 10 September 2017 (UTC))

Thank you for your assumptions/jump to conclussions. Are you ignoring that Jelić is also Croatian surname and that there are over 100000 people with Croatian ancestry? Chernobog95 (talk) 14:40, 16 September 2017 (UTC)

References

Semi-protected edit request on 18 September 2017

188.4.70.138 (talk) 16:53, 18 September 2017 (UTC) She is a Croatian- Nea Zealand singer, songwriter etc

• Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. General Ization ^Talk 16:57, 18 September 2017 (UTC)

Influences

"Katy Perry, Justin Timberlake, Bruno Mars and Sara Bareilles have also influenced Lorde vocally."

To me, this seems a bit of a stretch from what was said in the source, in which she mentions them as part of an acceptance speech, for an award in which they were the other nominees. Granted, she did sort of say that ("I think mostly to Bruno [Mars], to Sara [Bareilles], to Katy [Perry], to Justin [Timberlake]. I have been so inspired by all of your vocal work at some point in my life, so thank you . . . Thank you so much!"), but to me that doesn't seem quite to suggest that they are significant factors in her music and how its developed, just a slightly throwaway comment. Apologies if this seems trivial for talk page discussion, but I didn't want to do anything rash given that I don't have much experience beyond fixing typos...

Thoughts? Robrob42 (talk) 00:52, 29 September 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 11 October 2017

Change the fact that she is of Croatian origin, when she is not. She gave an interview ,recently, stating that she is clearly of Irish and Serbian decent. 178.148.56.240 (talk) 08:46, 11 October 2017 (UTC)

Not done: as you have not cited reliable sources to back up your request, without which no information should be added to, or changed in, any article. - Arjayay (talk) 15:02, 11 October 2017 (UTC)

Israel boycott

Why no mention of her boycott of Israel? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Boycott the boycotters (talk • contribs) 04:40, 27 December 2017 (UTC)

It is mentioned here Lorde#Controversy. NZFC^(talk) 04:57, 27 December 2017 (UTC)

Relatives in Bio section

Her mother is listed but father Vic O'Connor is not. He is ref'd in text below.

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29/12/2017 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rml2020 (talk • contribs) 11:36, 29 December 2017 (UTC)

External links modified

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Semi-protected edit request on 12 January 2018

190.245.100.164 (talk) 00:22, 12 January 2018 (UTC)

• Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format.NZFC^(talk) 00:56, 12 January 2018 (UTC)

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Controversy section

Under the controversy section, we have:

"American rabbi Shmuley Boteach paid for a full-page advertisement in the Washington Post, with the headline "Lorde and New Zealand ignore Syria to attack Israel", and called her a "bigot", noting that she will be touring Russia despite Putin's support for the Syrian regime"

"On 31 January 2018, the Israeli law centre Shurat HaDin filed a $13,000 lawsuit against the Palestinian solidarity activists Justine and Nadia on behalf of three teenage Israeli fans for "emotional damage" resulting from the concert's cancellation. The lawsuit was filed under a 2011 Israeli law allowing lawsuits against anyone calling for a boycott of Israel."

The inclusion of these details is not justified. Sorry, but not every word or fart by the pro-Israel crowd needs to be included in this article. Tagging above statements for WP:UNDUE. Al-Andalusi (talk) 22:21, 13 February 2018 (UTC)

Criticism of Lorde, and a rather novel legal case around her decision is clearly relevant, widely covered, and hence DUE.Icewhiz (talk) 10:02, 14 February 2018 (UTC)

Right, but sentences can be trimmed down to one-third of the what is currently in the article. Name of law center/amount asked for are not important, and certainly not the inner Israeli law behind it. Shmuley's claims of hypocrisy are irrelevant. It is sufficient to mention the full-ad and the bigot accusation the triggered a reaction. There is no need to include each and every view from him. Otherwise, the section will need to be balanced by quotes from the open letter by the pro-Palestinian activists. Al-Andalusi (talk) 20:17, 14 February 2018 (UTC)

I actually think all the information written is justified to be included, just because you don't want to hear what they have to say doesn't mean it isn't informative. Why they are attacking her and call her a "bigot" is interesting information as well as the bit about the lawsuit. You quite often see in articles the amount people are suing for and reason for it. How they are trying to sue her under Israeli law is important to the reader to make sense of what they are trying to do as well, just like I'd expected it too say if they were trying to sue her in a New Zealand court of law. I agree with Icewhiz that all the information can stay. NZFC^(talk) 20:25, 14 February 2018 (UTC)

I'm a bit conflicted on this. Yes, I think the information should stay but it has to be trimmed down a bit since the section already makes a chunk of the article, making it unbalanced with the other sections. While this is receiving media coverage, it is also not being played out on national TV channels or actually warranting a large debate with the general public. What I propose is to trim the section a bit but move what is currently in place to Melodrama World Tour, since the cancelled show pertains to this issue. De88 (talk) 08:40, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

Maybe, but I think the text is already trimmed down for the most part. For example, Boteach's statements can't be reduced because it would be a distortion of what he said. He called Lorde "a bigot" precisely because she chose to play in Russia despite its current involvement in Syria while refusing to play in Israel for "human rights concerns" or something (in my opinion he forgot to mention Russian involvement in Chechnya, Georgia, Ukraine and Abkhazia, much worse than Israel's conflict with the Palestinians, but that's a different story). Lorde is not known for being an activist like Jane Fonda who cares about political causes, therefore it seems a little bit hypocrite her virtue signalling against Israel. I think that's what Boteach was pointing out. He didn't call Lorde a bigot just because she cancelled her trip to Israel per se. Failing to mention his comparison with Russia would be original research, cherry-picking, POV and dishonest. You can't arbitrarily trim down whatever you want based on your political agenda.--Shelcare (talk) 21:59, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

Jesus, I am not "arbitrarily" trimming down whatever I want based on my "political agenda". All I am saying is that this is way too much information for one issue. Had she had several controversial issues throughout her career (like Kanye, then this length of information would be appropriate to stay. However, this is one incident that covers four paragraphs. I think at most, it should still mention all the major points of the issue, just in a trimmed matter. It can be done. It won't "distort" anything. Like I said, I am not seeing this being rolled out by Fox News, CNN or any big media companies. Had that been the case, then perhaps the length it is at right now would be appropriate but it isn't. It seems like you can't handle an oppsosing opinion from someone who could care less about the artist's political views or "agenda". De88 (talk) 01:52, 25 February 2018 (UTC)

Many people haven't heard of Lorde prior to her getting involved in a political and legal issue (with impact and lefs beyond her initial stmt). Not everyone follows contemporary music. The Washington Post is usually considered as a major source.Icewhiz (talk) 04:47, 25 February 2018 (UTC)

Can you provide a source that back up these assumptions? Not to get biased here but Lorde established a name for herself with Royals, which happens to be one of the best-selling singles of all-time and she has an album that critics credit with changing the sound in mainstream music. Even if you don't follow "contemporary music", her name is recognizable. I think you misunderstood me. Yes, The Washington Post is a major source. What I am saying is that I am not seeing any media companies rolling this story out on national television constantly. Her statements stirred up responses from a Jewish Senator and several celebrities backed her support of the concert cancellation but there seems to be more gossip articles over rumors that she and Jack Antonoff are dating. You can fight this all you want but there really isn't much coverage on this to keep it at the length it is right now. I still want this to be moved to the Melodrama World Tour, where it fits more accordingly. That doesn't mean I want all the information that is on her main page scrapped, just trimmed. It becomes worrisome that some of her summaries of her career sections are smaller than her controversy section. De88 (talk) 10:37, 26 February 2018 (UTC)

You'd be surprised at how many people don't follow music at all. The issue probably is not going away - I wouldn't tuck this into Melodrama World Tour - as it is likely to be an on-going issue unless resolved in some manner.Icewhiz (talk) 13:36, 26 February 2018 (UTC)

She makes headlines for pretty much anything really. Again, I am not downplaying what she said but this isn't the first time she makes headlines. A lot of sites picked up her onion ring account "fiasco", her acne advice rant, etc. Also, regardless if this information gets compressed or not, it *has* to go on Melodrama World Tour. She cancelled a tour date; that information is essential and needs to be included in that article. De88 (talk) 13:46, 26 February 2018 (UTC)

The readership of A&E and gossip is different from the main rag - she certainly has made many headlines - but in a different section of coverage and by different outlets (e.g. WaPo wouldn't run an acne piece). Political statements/positions/activism of artists usually are in a separate section from performances.Icewhiz (talk) 13:52, 26 February 2018 (UTC)

You don't get it. Her political protest is worth noting on her tour article as well. The issue pretty much stems from there, since it revolves around a cancelled tour date that sparked reactions from those who opposed and supported her decision. Take Lady Gaga's Born This Way Ball tour, for example, which sparked political controversy. The information is well documented on there. The same applies here. 14:09, 26 February 2018 (UTC)

Your revert summary reason is misleading. Understand that the tag is about undue weight given to tagged content, and not about souring issues. So saying "perfectly sourced" does not really address the issue I'm raising. You claim that I'm the only one objecting here, but I'm seeing support for trimming down/relocating content from at least another editor. The point is, Shmuley, is a known troll that no one takes seriously and here we have his views given undue space. I cut down some content that is hopefully not controversial and will expand the pro-Palestinian POV with quotes to enlighten the readers as user "NZ Footballs Conscience" recommends. Shelcare, based on your account history, I'm pretty sure you are not allowed to edit Palestine-related articles. Though, you are free to work on alt-right related articles such as virtue signalling. Al-Andalusi (talk) 05:45, 19 February 2018 (UTC)

The controversy section should not grow larger than its place in Lorde's career, which is to say not larger than two or three paragraphs. With that thought, I removed an excess paragraph about the US state of Florida proposing a law, which looked to me as if it had no direct bearing on Lorde's career. Binksternet (talk) 06:01, 19 February 2018 (UTC)

You misunderstood the paragraph. This isn't a law proposal - the law is on the books. It is an application of the law towards cancelling two scheduled Lorde concerts in Florida in April (in Miami and Tampa Bay) as the venues in which she wants to perform do business with the state of Florida. The cancellation of two concerts is a rather big deal.Icewhiz (talk) 06:55, 19 February 2018 (UTC)

Removal of direct quote from open letter

Regarding the following statement:

...urging Lorde to cancel her Israel tour, citing "Israeli government's policies of oppression, ethnic cleansing, human rights violations, occupation and apartheid."

The statement in quotes was removed twice by user Shelcare ([9], [10]), and by user Icewhiz with a deceptive edit summary ([11]). The quote appears in mainstream news sources such as The Guardian (sourced in the edit). As the open letter was the main driver behind Lorde's decision, the insistence to remove te above statement constitutes a deliberate cover up by Icewhiz/Shelcare of the events that led to the cancellation. It is indeed a hypocritical move on Icewhiz/Shelcare's part, who spent days defending that Shmuley clown under the pretense of supporting variant POVs, but with the open letter, they don't give a crap about that. Al-Andalusi (talk) 07:16, 19 February 2018 (UTC)

Sorry for not assuming good faith after you have been pushing for weeks to remove Boteach's sentence because it doesn't suit your political agenda. You are a clasic POV warrior.--Shelcare (talk) 07:25, 19 February 2018 (UTC)

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