Talk:List of railway lines in New Zealand

Privatisation

yes its interesting how once the backbone of leased land containing the fibre optic communications network across NZ was sold, the transport function was sold off and left to shrink away. We need some info about how much that electrification cost, (wasnt it $1200 Million?) and how much the whole thing was sold for. we could also do with some idea of who bought it, what their communications and entertainment interests were and are, and how they are interrelated, and who has bought and sold the various parts since. personally i think it was really dumb, but it was one answer to a big set of issues facing nz at the time. moza 10:12, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

Bush Tramline

IIRC, the bush tram in the Waitakere Ranges still has rails, it was used to move kauri logs, and is still occasionally in use with passengers as a family attraction. Need to note this, maybe I can dig out some details, and update the page.

NevilleDNZ 06:12, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

New Network Maps

I just added the network map for the North Island and a placeholder for the South Island. I used the information available in the main article and collated them with maps from [www.demis.nl] (the maps are free to use), for coastlines and railroad paths. Let me know what you think please. A few notes:

• There might be some cities/town that are relevant but not in the map. In some cases I decided not to include some cities to prevent too much clutter. If you feel that a city is needed in area where there is already a bit of clutter, please suggest which other city/cities should be removed. In some cases I just didn't have enough local (NZ) knoweldge to discriminate between relevant and irrelevant cities. Suggestions are welcome.
• Notice that these maps are SVG files. While wikipedia doesn't support direct text editing of SVG files, they can be opened with a text editor or a graphic editor, to fix typos or add more graphics.
• I hope the South Island network map will be ready in a few days.

Enjoy! manu3d 17:01, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Nouth Island Network Map feedback

Firstly, this is excellent! I've been wanting some maps for ages but I haven't a damn clue how to make them, so thank you so much! I'm now going to offer a pretty extensive run of suggestions, which isn't meant to be criticism but more ideas for improvement. Take this in the spirit of someone who's very glad we now have a map! Axver

Hey Axver, thank you for your detailed feedback. It is much appreciated and I have no problem in updating the map as much as possible. Let me address your suggestion one by one, to better understand how to proceed. manu3d 23:51, 4 November

1. Paraparaumu, Napier, Taumarunui, Otiria, and Upper Hutt are all missing. They are all important towns, either in population or in their relation to the railways. Axver 04:00, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

No problem in adding those towns. I just need to find where they are. I would, however, refrain from adding any town that is not actually connected to a current, former or proposed railway. Is this the case for any of the towns you suggested? Furthermore, is there any town you would remove from those currently available? manu3d 23:51, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

All of those towns are connected to the network, so there's no problem there. Napier is the most glaring omission - it's one of New Zealand's more notable towns, and it looks just a bit odd to have Hastings and Wairoa but not Napier. Upper Hutt and Paraparaumu are important as they are the current terminii of the Wellington electrified network. Taumarunui is quite notable as a railway town. Otiria is the present northern terminus of the network, but it may look a little cluttered around Kaikohe and Opua, so it probably wouldn't be missed if left out. Axver

Napier, Upper Hutt, Paraparaumu and Taumarunui all added in. I also added Otiria but sacrificed little Opua. Is this ok? manu3d 22:53, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Hey, sorry for the very delayed reply. I went on holiday for a few days and didn't have the Internet time that I thought I would have. In any case, including Otiria rather than Opua is probably best in my opinion, as I would say Otiria is now the more significant of the two in a railway context. - Axver 00:02, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

2. The route from Hamilton to Tauranga is a main trunk and should not be marked as a branch line. It is one of the busiest and most important routes in the country. In contrast, the route from Whangarei to Otiria should probably be marked as a branch line now as it has lost most significance. Axver

I'll change the thickness of both the Hamilton-Tauranga and the Whangarei-Otiria lines to reflect your recommendations. Is the Hamilton-Tauranga line the East Coast Main Trunk Railway? manu3d 23:51, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

Yes, Hamilton to Tauranga is the East Coast Main Trunk. It was previously considered to run all the way through to Taneatua, but this status no longer holds. Axver 04:00, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Thickness changed, and I've renamed the graphical object inside the file to reflect the correct name. All routes are named in SVG file, in the hope that one day somebody will be able to make good use of them, i.e. to enable tooltips with the name of the line.

3. My vision's a bit bad so I can't tell if you have marked the last portion of the Cambridge Branch as closed. It's closed beyond Huatapu. Axver

It's interesting you brought up a vision issue. I always intended to create one more version of each map for people with visual impairments. As they are SVG files it is technically simple. I just need to nail down the standard version of each map first. manu3d 23:51, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

Oooh, a version for the visually impaired? Now that would be pretty fantastic! I hate it when I find a map that's exactly what I want and I can't distinguish some features. Axver 04:00, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I'd like to provide a map akin to the accessible London Tube map. It's not a fully fledged solution (with tactile devices and aural support) but at least people with various degree of colour blindness will be taken care of. - manu3d 22:53, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

4. Huntly is misspelt as "Huntley". Axver

Will be corrected. manu3d 23:51, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

Update: it has been corrected. manu3d 19:39, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

5. I don't see the Johnsonville Branch, though I understand that may be really hard to squeeze in. Axver

I've put it in, but it's tiny! - manu3d 22:53, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

6. There are a number of missing closed lines: the former East Coast Main Trunk route via Waihi, the Rimutaka Incline (might be a bit hard to fit), Mount Egmont Branch, Moutuhora and Ngatapa Branches from Gisborne, I think a couple of closed coal branches near Huntly are missing. Axver

* I've added what I think is the East Coast Main Trunk via Waihi.

* The Rimutaka Incline is just too small to fit it in.

* Couldn't find any useful information about the Mount Egmont Branch on your page or your website. =?

* Added Moutuhora and Ngatapa Branches from Gisborne.

* Where can I find info about the Huntly coal branches you refer to? What are their names? Are they big enough to be somewhat visible?

* manu3d 22:53, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Yep, that's the former ECMT! The Mount Egmont Branch is probably a bit difficult because it didn't actually serve any towns. It just left the MNPL between Stratford and New Plymouth somewhere, and was more a glorified industrial siding than anything. Its absence is likely not to be missed much. I'll try to dig up a map of what was around Huntly. If my knowledge of New Zealand's railways is lacking in one area, it's with regards to the lines around Huntly and what was NZR-owned and what was privately owned. - Axver 00:02, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

7. Some important proposed lines are missing, most notably the extension from Taneatua via Opotiki to Moutuhora that would have linked the two eat coast sections. The proposed line to Marsden Point near Whangarei may also be a worthwhile addition (if there isn't too much clutter around Whangarei), as it may actually be built soon. Steel Roads of New Zealand, ed. Gordon Troup (Wellington: A. H. and A. W. Reed, 1973) has some great maps showing where proposed routes were. I need to flesh out the proposed routes section of the article to reflect this, but I don't currently have the book in my possession.

* The extension from Taneatua to Moutuhora has been added.

* The line to Marsden Point overlap too closely with the closed one to Onerahi. I'd leave the historically important one until the proposal goes through and becomes a reality.

Ah, right, sounds good to me! - Axver 00:02, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

That's all for now. I hope that doesn't come across as too critical. Thank you SO MUCH for doing this map and I can't wait for the South Island one! If you want to consult more closely with me about what should be included, please just leave me a message on my talk page; I'd be delighted to help. - Axver 05:51, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

5/6/7 The most important reason anything has been left out so far is that I don't have track information on it. Pretty much all the lines that are included in the map were on the original map I used from [www.demis.nl]. If a track wasn't there I didn't put it in. In fact, at least aestetically, I have a problem with the proposed lines as they do not reflect their planned or likely path and I'm not convinced they should be kept. But the bottom line problem is that to add any track that isn't there already I'd need to know where to put it. I'm not quite sure where to find the book you are talking about. Is there any website where that kind of information is available instead? manu3d 23:51, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

The rest: I noticed the source maps you used actually had the former route of the East Coast Main Trunk marked, between Paeroa and Tauranga via Waihi. Axver

I'm confused now. Can you have a look to the current map and tell me what should be kept and what should be removed or modified? - manu3d 22:53, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

What's there is correct. - Axver 00:02, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

With regards to the others ... I have a number of books with maps of New Zealand's railway networks, but the maps are obviously copywritten so I can't put them on Wikipedia, but maybe I could scan them and send them to you privately so you can use them as a guide? They aren't on an especially large scale, but they could be quite a help. Axver

If you are satisfied with the current level of approximation I'd keep things as they are. If not, feel free to send me scans of only the lines that need to be tweaked. - manu3d 22:53, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

I think the current level of approximation is very satisfactory. My only concern would be with proposed lines, but as I said, the book with good maps of those isn't currently in my possession. I'm off on holiday again soon, but I'll try to get it back by the end of this month and at least update the article to reflect the scope of the proposals. I'm not sure if you will want to add them to the map though. - Axver 00:02, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

Personally, I'm a fan of the proposed routes being marked, it adds a degree of interest, and the Gordon Troup book shows the proposed paths. To my knowledge, there is unfortunately no website to use: the reason I'm on Wikipedia is because I was so disappointed with the lack of Internet coverage of New Zealand's railways that I figured I should do something about it! Axver 04:00, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Proposed Lines date issue

For proposed lines, I would suggest adding dates of proposal and abandonment to avoid the misunderstanding that they are crrently proposed. And possibly handle crowding around Auckland and Wellington by way of insets? dramatic 18:40, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

• Concerning the proposal dates, it's nice conceptually and technically easy, but I'm a bit worried about adding more clutter. I'm not against it. Would anybody else care to comment on this? manu3d 03:33, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
• Creating insets for Auckland and Wellington is a very nice idea actually, but I'm selfishly worried by how much time it would take to create them. They'd be minimaps with relatively many streets and I bet I'd end up spending a lot of time on them. I'd definitely leave this out unless there's an overwhelming request for it. manu3d 03:33, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
  • As far as dates for proposed lines go, maybe we could avoid clutter by just having a colour distinction between 'previously proposed' and 'currently proposed'. Though the only serious current proposals that I know are the Marsden Point line and reopening the Ngapara/Tokarahi Branches as far as Weston. As for mini-maps, we could avoid the whole street problem by not zooming in that far, perhaps? Just have a more localised map with the urban areas shaded and the lines marked.

Again, thank you so much for these maps. I appreciate it very much! - Axver 04:00, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

A difference in color sounds like a good way to go to prevent further clutter. Of all the proposed lines visible in the two maps so far, could you please let me know which ones are actually modern/current proposals? - manu3d 22:53, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

All of the proposals marked on the current maps don't have any chance of happening any time soon, unfortunately. Some won't happen even though they should, just due to the economic climate and an unwillingness to invest in infrastructure, while others have been superseded by other routes (e.g. the Midland Line made Culverden to Stillwater unnecessary, the Main North Line made Waiau to Kaikoura unnecessary). By the way, I just noticed one significant proposal that is missing, and I would say that it, along with the ECMT connection to Gisborne, came closest to being realised: the connection of the Nelson section from Glenhope to the Westport - Stillwater Line at Inangahua Junction. It was always meant to be built, work was done on it, and it likely would have been finished were it not for the incompetence of the company originally intended to build it and then the Great Depression. - Axver 00:02, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

South Island Network Map feedback

I just uploaded it. There are a few tweaks to do but from my point of view it's almost ready. Many of the closed branches are very speculative, in the sense that I found the list of their stations and placed the track by eye, hoping that qualitatively they do not diverge too much from reality. Do you guys think it's ok? Or should I take them off, as they are not 100% accurate? Now, I better get some sleep. manu3d 03:33, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

• Oooh, awesome! Thank you very much for this map too! As far as the routes go, they look pretty accurate to me. No complaints at the moment. However, I do have some feedback about other factors:
  • The Main South Line is no longer a passenger route from Rolleston (where the Midland Line leaves it just outside Christchurch) to Invercargill as the Southerner stopped running in 2002.
    • Fixed! manu3d 16:01, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
  • Regarding the proposed Canterbury Interior Main Line, it shouldn't meet the Fairlie Branch in Eversley (I think that is a mistake in the text I need to correct, so this isn't your fault at all!). The actual proposal was, I believe, for it to head coastward between the Mount Somers and Fairlie Branches to meet the Main South Line just north of Timaru in Temuka.
    • Fixed! manu3d 16:01, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
  • The following closed branches appear to be missing: Conns Creek Branch/Denniston Incline (off the Ngakawau Branch), Eyreton Branch (from Kaiapoi on the Main North Line to Oxford via Eyreton), Blackball/Roa Branch (off the Stillwater - Westport Line), Nelson Section (Nelson to Glenhope), one half of the Tokarahi and Ngapara Branches (left Oamaru together, diverged at Windsor), the Dunback half of the Dunback and Makareao Branches (where the line from Palmerston curves north on the map to Makareao, the Dunback line just continued on straight for a little bit to Dunback).
    • Fixed, as much as I could, by eye only. I hope the spatial relationships between the Nelson Section and the proposed nearby lines are correct enough. Can you double check? manu3d 16:01, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Doesn't look problematic to me! - Axver 00:02, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

• • The Catlins River Branch extends further than shown on the map. It's a bit of a difficult one to trace, though.
    • Fixed, trying to be more precise. Again, it's all done by eye.
  • The Otago Central Railway is an operating heritage line through to Middlemarch.
    • Fixed! manu3d 16:01, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
  • The Pleasant Point Railway on the Fairlie Branch doesn't extend all the way to the Timaru junction. It's just a couple of kilometres around Pleasant Point.
    • Fixed! manu3d 16:01, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
  • Town omissions: Lumsden (major railway town), Fairlie should be marked instead of Eversley, Balclutha (biggest town of its area, perhaps have just it rather than it and Kaitangata), Roxburgh (notable enough, not much clutter where it is), and I think where you marked Runanga, it should be Rapahoe. I'd also mark either or both of Otira and Arthur's Pass on the Midland Line, due to their notability as railway towns (the terminii of the 1923-1997 electrification project through the Alps).
    • All done as recommended except Otira: it was fighting for space with Arthur's Pass and I gave priority to the latter. Let me know if I should do the opposite instead. manu3d 16:01, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

I think Arthur's Pass is the better known of the two, so I think that was a good choice. - Axver 00:02, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

• • I think that's about all the feedback now. Again, I really appreciate all the work you have put into this. It's excellent! - Axver 05:08, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
    • Thank you! I'll now go on and fix the North Island map in a similar fashion. I might need some more feedback for it. And please, let me know if I introduced any new error in the South Map. If you load both the previous and the new map in two tabs of the same browser window you'll be able to toggle back and forth and easily notice the differences. manu3d 16:01, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
  • Hey mate, I think the south island map could do with a minor amendment. The Nelson branch line was planned to extend as far as Inangahua. This isn't shown on the map, although a parallel planned link between Tophouse and Inangahua is shown. I don't know much about this planned link but my guess is that it would have instead been a shorter link to the formed section of the Nelson line at Kawatiri. The Nelson extension to Inangahua would have then made up the remainder of the route to Inangahua. Given the local topograhy, its hard to imagine any other arrangment would be possible. Excellent work otherwise!

Proposed rename

I propose this page be renamed and moved to List of railway lines in New Zealand, as per other such articles. --Nick Moss (talk) 04:50, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

Classification of main lines etc

The intro says there are 4 "main lines" and 7 "secondary lines". The tables list 5 "main trunk lines" and 6 "secondary main lines". Template:NZR Lines lists 4 "main lines" and 10 "secondary lines". Is this division and any of these terms official, or are we using them randomly? Nurg (talk) 23:45, 17 October 2014 (UTC)