Talk:List of denominations in the Latter Day Saint movement

Change the title from "Sects" to "LDS derived" "denominations" for NPOV title

The article on Sects says that "...the term is occasionally used in a malicious way to suggest the broken-off group follows a more negative path than the original. The historical usage of the term sect in Christendom has had pejorative connotations and refers to a group or movement with heretical beliefs or practices that deviate from those of groups considered orthodox. I tried to find other Christian churches being referred to as sects (Lutheran, Catholic, etc) it would seem that only the very small branches or bizarre are referred to as "sects".

The article Christian denomination defines a Christian denomination as

a distinct religious body identified by traits such as a common name, structure, leadership and doctrine. Individual bodies, however, may use alternative terms to describe themselves, such as church or sometimes fellowship. Divisions between one group and another are defined by doctrine and by church authority; issues such as the nature of Jesus, the authority of apostolic succession, eschatology, and papal primacy may separate one denomination from another. Groups of denominations-often sharing broadly similar beliefs, practices, and historical ties are known as branches of Christianity.

This article on Christian denomination also includes lists the various groups of the Latter-day Saint movement.

Given Wikipedia's policy on Article titles, the policy on contentious labels the negative connotation of the word "sect" in the title, and the fact that this is only used in the media to describe small, polygamous Mormon groups, and to be consistent with the article on Christian denominations, I propose a more NPOV title. I would suggest the more neutral: List of Latter Day Saint derived churches. Or to be consistent with the Latter day saint movement template List of Latter Day Saint denominations with the fundamentalist sects being listed in a separate category at the end.

If there is no objection, I will create a redirect here and copy and paste the content "as is" to the new page. Dig Deeper (talk) 00:02, 25 July 2016 (UTC)

I don't object in principle to changing the name of the article. I do object to renaming it "List of Latter Day Saint derived churches". Seems a bit clunky and I haven't seen that terminology used in the Latter Day Saint movement before. "List of Latter Day Saint denominations" might work, though I think "denomination" might be too broad for what we are referencing. I think the entire Latter Day Saint movemenet is better seen as a Christian denomination, which I think was the original reason "sects" was chosen for the various groups within the movement. But "denominations" is probably better than "sects" for this article name.

I also object to a cut and pasting of the content to a new page! That's not how article names are changed in Wikipedia. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 01:58, 26 July 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for your response, I appreciate your feedback. I forgot about the move function, thanks for the heads up! Before making the change, I'll give this a little more time to see if there are any other opinions on this.Dig Deeper (talk) 20:40, 26 July 2016 (UTC)

Given that any rename is bound to be at least somewhat controversial, it would probably be best to use WP:RM to propose a new name. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 00:29, 27 July 2016 (UTC)

Requested move 22 August 2016

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Details reasons for Move unopposed after 1 week of listing (non-admin closure) — Andy W. (talk · ctb) 06:52, 29 August 2016 (UTC)

---

List of sects in the Latter Day Saint movement → List of denominations in the Latter Day Saint movement – The word "sect" in the title violates Wikipedia's policy on Article titles, particularly the policy on neutrality in article titles. The policy states that non-neutral titles must be commonly used in the popular media. The word "sect" is not neutral (it is negative, see below) and the word is not seen in the popular press with respect to the Latter Day Saint Movement, except and only when describing the polygamous branches of the church. These polygamous branches form only a small part of the churches mentioned in this list.

Also, of the 5 criteria of a good title, this title lacks precision, consistency and naturalness. By including all the non-polygamous churches on the list, the title is not precise. Also "denomination" (not "sect") is always used within other Wikipedia articles as well as in the popular press. The word denomination is more consistent and natural.

--A more detailed explanation of the above points follows--

The word sect is not neutral. The article on Sects says that the term has been used "...in a malicious way to suggest the broken-off group follows a more negative path than the original. The historical usage of the term sect in Christendom has had pejorative connotations and refers to a group or movement with heretical beliefs or practices that deviate from those of groups considered orthodox." The word "sect" is rare and only appears when referring to the polygamous branches of Christianity (for LDS movement, as well as protestant). For example Rulon_C._Allred, List of religious leaders convicted of crimes, Münster Rebellion, etc.

The word "denomination" is more neutral and would seem more precise, natural, and consistent. Searching both the popular press and Wikipedia shows that the use of "denomination" is common and widespread throughout many Wikipedia articles on Later Day Saints churches(eg. the article on Christian denominations, Amboy_Conference, Church of Christ (Temple Lot), the Latter day saint movement template, etc). The article Christian denomination defines a Christian denomination and shows the word denomination is appropriate for the title. Denomination- a distinct religious body identified by traits such as a common name, structure, leadership and doctrine. Individual bodies, however, may use alternative terms to describe themselves, such as church or sometimes fellowship. Divisions between one group and another are defined by doctrine and by church authority; issues such as the nature of Jesus, the authority of apostolic succession, eschatology, and papal primacy may separate one denomination from another. Dig Deeper (talk) 01:34, 22 August 2016 (UTC)

---

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Re Latter-day Saints new deprecation of terms "Mormon"/"L.D.S."

1. SLC Tribune[1] >>>>>For over a century, the smaller churches of Joseph Smith’s Restoration movement have differentiated themselves by proudly declaring, “We are not Mormon!” It has been a badge of honor of sorts, a way of sticking it to an alleged rival that has converted more people than all the other Restoration churches combined. How on earth are we [WPdian Hodgd: viz., non-"Latter-day Saints" who join them as participants in the so-called "Latter Day Saint movement"] supposed to differentiate ourselves from the Mormons if they don’t want to be called Mormons either? --- Daniel P. Stone<<<<< --Hodgdon's secret garden (talk) 21:39, 18 March 2019 (UTC)

The Book Of Jeraneck

The Book Of Jeraneck is a history of Christian followers upon this Land Pre history. It is another testament of Jesus christ as born witness by the people of the Book Of Jeraneck. The book was translated from ancient metal plates given to our Prophet Matthew Gill By a messenger from god . The people who read on line and then criticise it are not reading official documents they are however reading illegal copies that disreputable people then alter and destroy its pure message. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.99.95.164 (talk) 13:43, 31 March 2020 (UTC)

• Are you suggesting a change in the article? What part of the article do you find does not represent the viewpoint of your denomination? Epachamo (talk) 14:16, 31 March 2020 (UTC)

Order of Enoch survives into the 21st century?

Can we get a citation on this? I keep looking and I'm finding nothing. On http://ldsmovement.pbworks.com/w/page/15644338/Church%20or%20Kingdom%20of%20Christ it also implies it is still extant, albeit miniscule. However, it provides no reference to this. If anyone can provide a reference on whether or not this group still exists I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks. 69.120.203.105 (talk) 17:21, 3 March 2021 (UTC)

Total number of denominations

Is there any rough number, or estimate, of the total number of (1) all denominations within the Latter day saint movement in history and (2) the number of current active denominations? I have seen sources state that there are "hundreds" of different denominations, but I seriously doubt there are hundreds of active extant denominations (unless tiny splinter-churchs that basically consist of one or two families within fundamentalist and/or restorationist sects count, which presumably they would, if they were truly independent entities). The best estimate I'm aware of put the total number somewhere around 100-150 since 1830, but I don't know how acurrate that is (and it's certainly not "hundreds" as described here http://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Restorationism#Latter_Day_Saint_movement ) KingAntenor (talk) 04:10, 30 June 2022 (UTC)

D & C 115 verse 4

Not permanent text here but could someone include D and C chapter 155 verse 4. Followers of a religion made by the man that wrote this statement. It should be included because it was part of joseph smiths revealed doctrines. If any of these religions renounce the teachings of the man that translated his book, we must also include the reason for doing so and why they feel joseph smith decided to not "be rightous" when he wrote this. 2600:8800:8B92:F600:1482:9D61:1826:ABB3 (talk) 01:38, 19 April 2023 (UTC)

Sorry for putting this into the thing, I am rather new to wikipedia. Also I am not asking for someone to put this specifically in but to include which doctorines from the doctorines and covenents the specific different churches use if any. 2600:8800:8B92:F600:1482:9D61:1826:ABB3 (talk) 01:42, 19 April 2023 (UTC)

There are only 138 sections in the doctrine and covenants today (unless one of these denominations has added more). Can you share the quote you are referencing? Andrewmkeller (talk) 19:48, 6 August 2023 (UTC)