Talk:List of cities in Australia by population/Archive 2

Archive 1

Archive 2

GCCSA/SUA

Could it be more explicitly spelled out on the page what the component building blocks are for GCCSA/SUA? Are each of these a collection of local government areas into which the contiguous urban area extends? This is a very basic, but important piece of information for those reading and wondering what constitutes a "city" in the Australian sense of the word. The "urban centres" and "local government area" definitions are easy enough to understand because they are explained fairly well. It's the GCCSA/SUA which gives no component building block definition from what I can tell. --Criticalthinker (talk) 08:57, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

Wait, what little I can find is that "cities" aren't a collection of local government areas but of what would amount in America to something like a Census tract? Someone help me with this, and then find out a way to make it more clear in the definition on the page. --Criticalthinker (talk) 06:48, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

The definition of city varies from state to state. In New South Wales, a city's boundaries are determined by the local government area (LGA) boundaries. If a population centre within the LGA becomes large enough to reach city status, the whole LGA becomes the city. For example, if Raymond Terrace reached city status, the city boundaries would not be those of Raymond Terrace, they'd follow the boundaries of the Port Stephens Council LGA and places as far afield as Fingal Bay (45km to the east) and Duns Creek (a rural suburb about 30km to the north-west) would become part of the city of Port Stephens. This has already happened elsewhere. Cessnock was declared a city in the early part of last century, but the city includes small hamlets consisting of a few houses on the side of a country road within its boundaries. Sydney is an exception to the rule. Its boundaries include multiple LGAs, as seen in File:Sydney councils.png. Other states have different rules. and then we have the Australian Bureau of Statistics (ABS), whose definitions are consistent across the country but often mean very little. For example, Newcastle is a city of 148,535 people, but one of the ABS definitions of "Newcastle" includes most of the City of Newcastle LGA, much of the City of Lake Macquarie and a bit of the Port Stephens Council LGA. Another ABS definition extends this to cover most of the Lower Hunter Region, or what is commonly called Greater Newcastle. The Sydney ABS definition has some ridiculous boundaries, as I mentioned in this discussion. When it comes to the ABS definitions, they can be difficult to evaluate. For example, the definition of GCCSA is "The GCCSAs represent the socioeconomic extent of each of the eight state and territory capital cities. This provides a stable and relevant geographic definition for the release of socioeconomic survey data collected only within capital cities as well as other survey data requiring large population output regions. Within each state and territory, the area not defined as being part of the greater capital city is represented by a rest of state region." I'm not sure how to write that better. --AussieLegend (✉) 11:15, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

Of course, one would use ABS definitions since they are consistent across the country. I'm still not getting what the base components are the for the ABS are called for building "cities" in Australia, that's all I'm asking and asking to be made clear. If these are statistical measurements and not local government areas (apart from when a settlement becomes large enough where the entire local government area is included) what are these base statistical divisions called that make up the larger statsitical divisions? --Criticalthinker (talk) 19:29, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

Unfortunately, the ABS doesn't seem to make it clear what they actually use to determine the "socioeconomic extent of each" blah blah. Prior to the 2011 census everything was reasonably clear but the 2011 census made everything a bit hazy. We know that a GCCSA represents a capital city, even if it's a little meaningless, but when referring to anything smaller, it's necessary to find the acronym that best matches the map of the location that you're searching for. --AussieLegend (✉) 19:45, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

Doing a bit more research, I was able to find a few links explaining components of "cities". In the case of GCCSAs, they are made up of whole Statistical Areas Level 4 (SA4s).

http://www.abs.gov.au/websitedbs/D3310114.nsf/4a256353001af3ed4b2562bb00121564/6b6e07234c98365aca25792d0010d730/$FILE/Greater%20Capital%20City%20Statistical%20Area%20-%20Fact%20Sheet.pdf

The SA4s are designed to reflect labor markets, which used travel to work data from 2006. They say that the introduction of the GCCSAs is more consistent than former definitions of metropolitan cities, though, they definitely define each of these cities more broadly than the former definitions. To my American ear, it sounds like the difference between MSAs and CSAs.

http://www.abs.gov.au/websitedbs/D3310114.nsf/home/Australian+Statistical+Geography+Standard+%28ASGS%29

This second link is something I'll have to delve more into as it describes the other metropolitan cities. Maybe others can read through them. At the end of the day, if anyone can find a better way to word definitions for GCCSAs and SUAs on the mainpage, that would be great. I do think the ABS really messed this up, though. It appears that GCCSAs and SUAs are not directly comparable, which maybe means that they should be on different lists to avoid confusion. I guess what I'm saying is that simply bolding the capital cities to show them as different might not be as clear a diffentiation as is needed. At first blush, it appears that using different components that the ABS exaggerates the size of the large capital cities relative to the other cities of the country. --Criticalthinker (talk) 19:55, 5 February 2015 (UTC)

"At first blush, it appears that using different components that the ABS exaggerates the size of the large capital cities relative to the other cities of the country." Indeed it does, as well as to each other. For example, Melbourne is actually larger than Sydney, but Sydney's size is exaggerated by including places like Glen Alice, which is 128 km (80 mi) as the crow flies and 223 km (139 mi) by road from the Sydney CBD and could not possibly be considered to be part of Sydney. --AussieLegend (✉) 12:50, 6 February 2015 (UTC)

See, this is where I kind of have to take issue with some of the whining on this page, particularly of the heated Sydney vs. Melbourne rivalry that I can only imagine must be contentious in Australia to save the least. I guess it could be debate whether the ABS changed the way they measured the capital cities to favor one city over the other, but I don't think it can be argued that measurements of the GCCSA category of cities aren't consistent acrosss/within that definition; it's still apples to apples. It's not as if they made Sydney a GCCSA and made SUA. Does that make sense? --Criticalthinker (talk) 16:17, 6 February 2015 (UTC)

For the record, I hate Melbourne, but that has nothing to do with what I've presented. When you look at the actual populations of the cities, the ABS populations just don't make sense. The same is applicable to Newcastle, where I was born. The ABS figures put Newcastle as the seventh largest city in Australia, but it's actually smaller, both in population and area than adjacent Lake Macquarie. The ABS has said it doesn't report populations of actual places, and that's borne out in the population data. It covers statistical areas, but I sometimes wonder who decides on these areas. Unfortunately, we seem to be stuck with them. --AussieLegend (✉) 16:29, 6 February 2015 (UTC)

But, see, that's defining "city" as a local government area. As a settlement, "Lake Macquarie" doesn't seem to exist as physically seperate from metropolitan Newcastle, so it can't be a bigger "city" because it's not a city beyound just happening to have a local government area. In fact, some of the areas within this "City" are actually part of the statistical/metropolitan Newcastle city. I admit that you guys have some confusing definitions, but I do find them generally consistent. I have to say that "city" is a fairly simple concept here in America. "City" in America is a local government area with boundaries which generally corresponds to a single and historical city proper settlement in most cases, whether it be a rural settlement or urban one. In Australia, it doesn't seem that there is much rhyme or reason, often times, to the boundaries of LGAs. Sometimes, they include a single settlement and huge swaths of rural or even undeveloped land. Sometimes, they even seem to split a historical settlement in half and pare if off between two different local governments. Just generally looking over it, I wouldn't say that the metropolitan or statistical city of Newcastle seems to be unusually overdone relative to any other. --Criticalthinker (talk) 18:29, 6 February 2015 (UTC)

More research seems to yield an answer to my original question (http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/Products/3218.0~2011~Main+Features~Population+estimates+and+Australia%27s+new+statistical+geography?OpenDocument):

Statistical Areas Level 2 (SA2s) - are medium-sized general purpose areas which aim to represent communities that interact together socially and economically. SA2s are based on officially gazetted suburbs and localities. In urban areas SA2s largely conform to one or more whole suburbs, while in rural areas they generally define the functional zone of a regional centre. Statistical Areas Level 3 (SA3s) - are aggregations of whole SA2s and reflect a combination of widely recognised informal regions as well as administrative regions such as state government regions in rural areas and LGAs in urban areas. Statistical Areas Level 4 (SA4s) - are made up of whole SA3s and are designed to reflect labour markets. In rural areas, SA4s generally represent aggregations of small labour markets with socioeconomic connections or similar industry characteristics. Large regional city labour markets are generally defined by a single SA4. Within major metropolitan labour markets SA4s represent sub-labour markets. Greater Capital City Statistical Areas (GCCSAs) - are built from whole SA4s and represent a broad socioeconomic definition of each of the eight state and territory capital cities. They contain not only the urban area of the city, but also the surrounding and non-urban areas where much of the population has strong links to the capital city, through for example, commuting to work.

So, the basic building blocks for these cities are actually gazetted suburbs and localities which then go on to make up larger and larger statistical areas. Also, while I'm not sure if these are readily available or published, it looks like these statistical areas aren't actually new measurements - save for the GCCSAs - and have something to be directly compared to:

To assist users in the transition to the new geography, a set of historical population estimates based on the ASGS is included in this issue. Estimates have been provided at the SA2 level annually back to 1991, the SA3 and SA4 levels back to 1981, and the GCCSA level back to 1971. Feedback on these historical estimates can be emailed to regional.population@abs.gov.au.'

Interesting. I hope this helps others who have similar questions. --Criticalthinker (talk) 18:14, 6 February 2015 (UTC)

50 largest urban centres by population

According to the table, the four largest urban centres in NSW are, in order, Sydney, Gold Coast-Tweed Heads, Canberra-Queanbeyan, and Newcastle. But the only part of Gold Coast-Tweed Heads that is in NSW is Tweed Heads, which has a population of only 7,525. (And that assumes that Tweed Heads is part of the Gold Coast, which it isn't.) And the only part of Canberra-Queanbeyan that is in NSW is Queanbeyan, which has a population of 37,991. So the ordering in the table is ludicrous. Each should either be listed only in the state where most of the population lies, or split and listed separately. As presented here the information is misleading. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 125.255.16.233 (talk) 22:29, 28 February 2016 (UTC)

We can't and shouldn't split them as we are taking them as they are from the source. Not up to us to go splitting them. They are listed as Qld-NSW and ACT-NSW are they not? This is accurate. The state with the majority of population can go first. Albury-Wodonga is another one where the majority is in NSW and minority in Vic.--Saruman-the-white (talk) 23:31, 28 February 2016 (UTC)

Saruman-the-white is correct. Even if we were to try to split them, we couldn't, because we don't know the individual populations. The wikilinks to articles are just guides, we can't use the data from those articles, as they actually cover a different area to this one. For example this shows the map for the 2014 Gold Coast-Tweed Heads SUA. The Gold Coast article uses an outdated figure from 2010. None of the other areas available from the 2011 ABS QuickStats covers the same area as the SUA, even the SA4, which is most similar.[1] That means we'd be getting different population types from different areas. While I have very little faith in the data in this article, at least it's consistent, more or less. --AussieLegend (✉) 04:37, 29 February 2016 (UTC)

I am concerned that this data is mis-used to claim that "Tweed Heads is the sixth largest city in New South Wales". That article is about Tweed Heads only, not about the larger ABS statistical area, so it is not appropriate to call it "the sixth largest city" just because it is a small part of a region which has a larger population. I tried to corerct that in the article, but it was reverted by Doctorhawkes because of the entry here for "Gold Coast-Tweed Heads". Is there a guideline for how to handle these cases in articles about the individual towns that constitute these larger areas?--Gronk Oz (talk) 22:49, 13 November 2016 (UTC)

It's really just a case of using the correct figures for the particular area. Newcastle has the same issue. People keep referring to parts of Lake Macquarie as suburbs of Newcastle when they are not, the two cities just share a common border, so the populations are often lumped together to make ridiculous claims. Look through the figures available on Quickstats and pick the one that best represents Tweed Heads which is not a city despite the claim in the article. --AussieLegend (✉) 07:56, 14 November 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for that, AussieLegend - that has just raised a new question: is there a guideline for what is classed as a "city"?--Gronk Oz (talk) 11:17, 14 November 2016 (UTC)

Sadly, no, as it changes from state to state. In NSW a city is legally the area of the LGA, but this is different elsewhere. --AussieLegend (✉) 14:54, 14 November 2016 (UTC)

Ellenbrook

Why is Ellenbrook on the list of Greater Capital City Statistical Areas/Significant Urban Areas by population? Isn't it a suburb of Perth? If Ellenbrook is entitled to be listed separately, wouldn't Mandurah be a more appropriate entry? 2001:8003:8656:7600:AD72:5E43:C8E9:19F2 (talk) 10:04, 1 October 2017 (UTC)

Mildura

38,000 to 60,000 and 9% growth? One or more of these numbers is wrong. 14.0.230.63 (talk) 06:54, 18 September 2018 (UTC)

New ABS Statistics Released

The new Australian Bureau of Statistics dataset for population through to June 2019 has been released: https://www.abs.gov.au/AUSSTATS/abs@.nsf/Lookup/3218.0Main+Features12018-19?OpenDocument — Preceding unsigned comment added by Happypup398 (talk • contribs) 04:05, 28 March 2020 (UTC)

See my map, see my map, see it's hopef'ly not too crap

First off, great job to all on keeping this list up-to-date with the ABS's ever-changing and too-complicated different definitions of statistical areas. I've noticed in the years since I created this article nearly 15 years ago that there's never-ending debate and confusion about the different statistical concepts under the post-2011 ASGS, so I tried to illustrate them all on one map, using the greater Sydney area as an example. It's my hope this map could go in the article along with a clearer definition of GCCSAs, SUAs, and urban centres/localities.

As can be seen from the map, the GCCSA for Sydney (black line) is HUGE. It contains the Significant Urban Areas of both Sydney and the Central Coast, and these in turn (along with the other SUAs all marked orange) contain collections/agglomerations of the individual urban centres (in pink), which in Sydney's UC case is still large, including Richmond-Windsor and the lower Blue Mountains, but nowhere near the size of the GCCSA, which as has been pointed out in this talk section, includes vast rural regions.

One thing I've thought about this article recently was that perhaps we should be using the SUA figures in the list for the capital cities as well, as they represent much tighter-defined areas, in Sydney's case not including the Central Coast, which is always contentious. This would require revising the figures of only a few cities on the list. For completeness' sake you could have a 4th list, with the populations of only the GCCSAs. As it stands we've got an awkward inclusion of the GCCSA for each capital along with the SUA for every other city in the land, which I understand was a compromise when the ASGS came out, but has never really made sense to me, as they're defined very differently (labour market areas, vs agglomerations of urban centres less than 5 km apart sharing links).

What does everyone think? I haven't been on this site in 15 years so buggered if I can remember how to sign my name. ҉ Randwicked ҉ 09:35, 27 April 2020 (UTC) (no, I figured it out)

Maybe a list at the top for GCCSAs only.then one for SUAs then one for LGAs. I agree including Central Coast in Sydney is controversial but at the same time GCCSAs are far and away the premier and primary area that the ABS uses for the capital cities with all the capital city population stats, annual and quarterly regional population statistics publications, projections etc released for GCCSAs. So for the sake of getting updated and the best data by definition the capital cities have to have a table for GCCSAs primarily, as they are the ABS definitive measure for capital city statistics. After that can be a table of all SUAs incl capital and non capital.StormcrowMithrandir 08:40, 27 April 2020 (UTC)

Regarding the black lines, why are there so many disjointed lines in peculiar places that aren't Sydney? I'm also concerned about apparently randomly selected areas like Brandy Hill, a small suburb in Port Stephens Council. --AussieLegend (✉) 09:43, 27 April 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for the comments both!Stormcrow, I agree this would be the best solution, retaining a list for the GCCSA, cos as you point out they are regarded as primary (even by the wikipedia articles for each capital city). AussieLegend, the black lines are showing through in places like the coast because they also form the coastline. They just show there because there aren't overlaid boundaries. It might look better if I changed the colour of the black lines to grey. Brandy Hill is labeled because it's a separate urban centre/locality. (The labeling placement is random, done by the GIS software.) - ҉ Randwicked ҉ 00:00, 28 April 2020 (UTC)

I thought the examples might labelled for that reason but it looks weird, Brandy Hill especially because it's just a rural locality - no shops, no urban etc, just farms and large rural residential blocks. --AussieLegend (✉) 15:16, 28 April 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for the further feedback. What might look better would be if I just removed the labels for the individual urban centres. It would reduce the general clutter of the map, and it's obvious that the biggest urban centres are the relevant cities. I'll try revising it tonight. - ҉ Randwicked ҉ 04:51, 29 April 2020 (UTC)

And edited! I got rid of the tiny urban centre/locality labels, enlarged the other unit labels slightly, made the GCCSA/coastal outline grey to be less prominent, and turned the solid shaded LGAs into outlines for better legibility. - ҉ Randwicked ҉ 10:47, 30 April 2020 (UTC)

Definitely an improvement, although I did like the colouring in the previous version. --AussieLegend (✉) 13:43, 30 April 2020 (UTC)

Thanks! I've tweaked it slightly once more. Made the labels bigger and higher contrast so they'd be more legible in a thumbnail, and other minor changes. - ҉ Randwicked ҉ 13:33, 3 May 2020 (UTC)

seems there's been no more feedback the past few weeks, so I might look at expanding on this in the article this weekend, godwilling I have time. ҉ Randwicked ҉ 11:26, 29 May 2020 (UTC)

GCCSA vs. SUA

Was this page recently changed? I didn't realize that GCCSA and SUA used different measurements, rather I thought the GCCSA were just the formal names for the capital SUAs. It'd be nice if there can be some explanation in the paragraphs for both as to what the base units are for measurements. The only thing I can compare it to is that GCCSA are kind of equivalent to the United State's CSA and the the SUAs are closer to United States MSAs? As in that both American measurements use counties as the base, but different levels and calculations of commuters to determine these areas. Do GCCSAs and SUAs use the name building blocks but maybe different populations thresholds for said building blocks, or are the two vastly different measurements?

Simpler way to ask this I guess it: Why and how is the Sydney GCCSA different than the Sydney SUA, for instance? --Criticalthinker (talk) 23:25, 27 December 2020 (UTC)

Hi Criticalthinker, I added a 'definitions' section, along with a map, a few months ago, to try to explain the ABS's multitude of confusing units. Essentially, when they changed their statistical geography in 2011, everything became based on 'SA units', SA 1/2/3/4, rather than on the old local governmental boundaries. Why, heaven knows, but now everything is made of these base units. GCCSAs exist only for the capital cities, are built from SA4s (labour market areas), and more or less equal the old capital city statistical divisions pre-2011. At the same time they created a unit called 'SUA' out of the SA2 units (much smaller units representing one or two suburbs), to replace the old statistical areas for the towns and cities, but they created these ALSO for the capital cities, so now each capital city has THREE different population figures (GCCSA, SUA, urban centre), or four if you count its central LGA ('city proper' elsewhere) as well. Hopefully my map clears it up a bit. Sometimes it seems the ABS's primary goal is confusing people. ҉ Randwicked ҉ 02:42, 28 December 2020 (UTC)

Okay, I scrolled down to see it. I guess my suggestion is that the definitions come first in the article so you're not just tossing people into a bowl of different terms they don't know. But that's up to you all. --Criticalthinker (talk) 04:23, 28 December 2020 (UTC)

Going to revise this article as discussed a few months ago, and noticed some errors

E.g. we've still got Mandurah listed as a separate Urban Centre, whereas all the ABS sources I've checked seem to say it merged into Perth's UC from the 2016 census. The next one down would be Alice Springs, if I'm reading the data cubes correctly, but it'll require review of the other entries and units to make sure they actually still exist. Will have a look at it all over the next few days. ҉ Randwicked ҉ 06:45, 31 October 2020 (UTC)

I've updated the first section, splitting the GCCSAs into a new table as I originally proposed, given their difference in definition and construction from SUAs. All the units have their formal titles. A couple of units (e.g. the Central Coast, Melton) have appeared from under the shadow of their capital cities. Yanchep appears to be a brand new SUA. There are 101 SUAs now, with populations updated to June 2019. ҉ Randwicked ҉ 09:00, 31 October 2020 (UTC)

I'm going to try to tackle the messy Urban Centres/Localities section next. We really should try to get it in order well before the 2021 census happens and new UCs are generated. ҉ Randwicked ҉ 08:28, 14 February 2021 (UTC)

Melbourne's Significant Urban Area population surpasses Sydney's

and this goes completely uncommented on in the media, probably because the ABS's conflicting population units are an unintelligible morass and no-one really gets them. LMFAO. Anyway, I've updated the SUA list from the lastest Regional Population figures released today. Will continue the revisions as I get a chance. ҉ Randwicked ҉ 11:41, 30 March 2021 (UTC)

tl;dr: Sydney's literally only the bigger city because the ABS counts the Central Coast in its population now. ҉ Randwicked ҉ 11:43, 30 March 2021 (UTC)

Confused about how the general population views what their cities are

This is one of my favorite pages to visit. However, I have recently been getting more and more confused about how we define cities in Australia. Each official state government does not reference the Gold Coast, Wollongong or Victor Harbor as anything other than centres. I know that this page uses ABS definitions, however does the general population (who know nothing about what the ABS does and define) consider these urban areas or UCL as cities? When they do, are they taking into account the greater urban land space or just the original core town?

More importantly, how do the state governments use the ABS definitions ?

If the states or general population do not define the cities based on ABS figures, why does Wikipedia not use what the official authorities do? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sdinesh2222 (talk • contribs) 23:36, 29 August 2021 (UTC)

@Sdinesh2222: I am not at all surprised that you are confused. Wikipedia decided to use the ABS figures because they are generally consistent across the country while the definition of cities varies from state to state and even within states there can be confusion. For example, in NSW (where I live), city borders consistently follow LGA boundaries which you would think would be best. However, that's not the case. Cessnock became a city when it was a well populated mining centre but the population has decreased now to about 15,000 and it's now just a large town. BUT, once somewhere has become a city it never loses that status. Instead, the City of Cessnock LGA boundaries now include various towns, suburbs and even small groups of rural houses outside of Cessnock proper bringing the population back up to more than 55,000. The ABS definition of Sydney includes one rural place 145km from the Sydney CBD while the generally accepted borders of Sydney stop far short of that. In the recent lock-downs, the NSW government included suburbs in the central coast (not part of Sydney!) as part of Greater Sydney. The ABS definition of Newcastle has included parts of adjacent Lake Macquarie and Port Stephens which is why Newcastle, New South Wales doesn't just talk about actual Newcastle. These are but a few examples but they show the inconsistencies that exist. Regarding Wollongong and the Gold Coast, these are both officially cities. I'm sorry I can't give you a better answer, but I don't think there is one. I'd also note that the ABS is a statistical body and does not necessarily follow state definitions of places. --AussieLegend (✉) 02:40, 29 August 2021 (UTC)

Cities and Metro areas

Recently had this debate on the Brisbane talk page, and settled on the fact that cities in Australia are ranked by the metropolitan populations and NOT city lgas. To put this bluntly the City of Melbourne is not 5 million people but about 150k, therefore this page should be retitled to reflect that as the term "City" in Australia if often used to define LGAs, whereas this article is not listing cities primarily by their City LGAs but rather metropolitan areas. The article should be retitled to reflect that

List of cities in Australia by metropolitan population--Caltraser5 (talk) 04:14, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

I've removed the template you added because it is used for section renames, not for renaming whole articles. Your proposed name is not appropriate because not all LGAs are cities, and they are listed in this article. To be fair, "List of cities" is not really correct either, because non-cities are listed. --AussieLegend (✉) 13:36, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

The trouble with this is that if you ask most Aussies to describe a city they'll describe the whole urban area, not the central LGA. It's just the way we define things. This article uses Australian English, and the title is correct in Australian English. IMO. Standard caveats re: a particular city's mileage may vary, etc. etc. ҉ Randwicked ҉ 07:52, 20 January 2022 (UTC)

What about different Urban areas within the single Greater Capital City area? For example are Melton or Central Coast considered cities of their own or are they ignored and absorbed under the Capital city  ? 14.201.220.44 (talk) 13:55, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

Sydney's Greater Cities Commission 6 region plan

Am curious if this will be reflected in future GCCSA counts in that Newcastle and the Gong will now start getting included?

https://greatercities.au/news/greater-cities-commission-to-deliver-six-cities-region — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sdinesh2222 (talk • contribs) 21:17, 14 May 2022 (UTC)

good question. I sure hope not, as that would just be excessive, but it'd be a matter for the ABS. I understand they developed the GCCSA units with the intention not to have to alter them unless really necessary. - ҉ Randwicked ҉ 06:37, 15 May 2022 (UTC)

Areas and densities

Not entirely sure about the inclusion of areas and densities in a population article. These can be misleading as (for example) the Brisbane CGGSA has an area of 15000 square km which is almost 3 times that of Perth or 5 times that of Adelaide. In reality of course, about 95% of that population is concentrated in about 2500 square km of that 15000 square km and urban Brisbane is vastly denser than urban Perth or Adelaide. Similarly, Sydney has a very large GCCSA area but Sydney is vastly denser than Melbourne (let alone Perth or Adelaide) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Saruman-the-white (talk • contribs) 06:44, 2 October 2017 (UTC)

I let it go because it didn't seem to do any harm but you do have valid points. Sydney's GCCSA extends to a ridiculous point beyond what any rational person would consider to be part of Sydney so the population density is not truly representative by any means. This is only supposed to be a list of populations and adding this extra information is beyond the scope of the article. I'm going to be bold and remove it. If the editor wishes to restore, he can argue the merits here. --AussieLegend (✉) 07:17, 2 October 2017 (UTC)

I would love to see areas and density come back. If using the GCCSA (sp?) does not make sense, perhaps there is another more reasonable data source? Here in Canada we have 2 articles that list population and land area together by municipality and population centre, and I think it would be useful to be able to compare cities on this metric. 19:23, 17 January 2023 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.71.108.66 (talk)

2021 estimates

the ABS has released the Regional Population Growth series for 2021. Interesting is Sydney pulling ahead of Melbourne again (in SUA population), mainly due to Melbourne losing over 60,000 people net in emigration during the pandemic. I will update things in a day or so. - ҉ Randwicked ҉ 11:59, 29 March 2022 (UTC)

Do UCL figures get taken into account for anything anymore or is it ignored if a Urban Centre is part of a SUA already  ? Sdinesh2222 (talk) 08:54, 30 April 2022 (UTC)

They are still released, but are calculated for the census only (i.e. every five years). The updated UCLs won't be published until later this year, see https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/standards/australian-statistical-geography-standard-asgs-edition-3/latest-release#release-schedule. ҉ Randwicked ҉ 06:45, 1 May 2022 (UTC)

Sounds like another update is coming as the ABS has updated the SUA definitions. Melbourne SUA back in front of Sydney SUA - maybe the missing population moved to Melton? https://www.smh.com.au/national/melbourne-tops-sydney-as-australia-s-biggest-city-on-a-technicality-20230413-p5d04g.html Tml au (talk) 12:31, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

Urban centre 2021 data

Is there any reason that the data on urban centres on this page only includes data up to 2016 and doesn't include 2021 cencus data? 59.100.112.44 (talk) 23:28, 25 April 2023 (UTC)

Because no one bothers to update the list. 2001:8003:900C:5301:18B6:F60A:BA46:2339 (talk) 13:34, 3 August 2023 (UTC)