Talk:List of battleships of Japan

Article

Should be good enough for now. I'm not sure whether all the ships should have 'IJN' designation infront.

Revth 06:46, 27 Feb 2004 (UTC)

No IJN - it's been discussed before, and it seems nobody has turned up any evidence that it was an official ship prefix. See Wikipedia:WikiProject Ships for what we have in the way of common standards. Stan 13:36, 27 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Merge proposal

List of Japanese steam battleships and List of battleships of Japan are almost exact forks of one another. The former is more complete and the latter has a shorter title, so I suggest merging to here. Essentially the [[Imperial Japanese Navy] only existed from 1860 (perhaps) to 1945, so all its battleships were steam-propelled; and Japan didn't have battleships before or after that period.... one article is therefore totally redundant. Unless anyone objects I'll merge them shortly. The Land (talk) 21:17, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

I concur. LordAmeth (talk) 01:07, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

I also agree. 65.94.253.16 (talk) 08:07, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

Kii-class names

Where did the names for BB11 and BB12 come from (Suraga and Omi)? I have never seen any names listed for those ships. -- Imperator3733 (talk) 14:19, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

German ships

I've removed the German ships, as including them here gives the average reader the false impression that they were put into service with the Japanese fleet, which is not the case. I also don't know why SMS Weissenburg was included at all, since she was never transferred to the Japanese Navy; the Turks retained her until they broke up her for scrap in the 1950s. So not only was she never under Japanese control, the article had her disposal wrong by a couple of decades. Parsecboy (talk) 03:02, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

Might need to split

This article is going to rather large - we're over 40kb and only 3 of 19 sections are completed. We might have to split the list between pre-dreadnoughts and dreadnoughts. Parsecboy (talk) 10:08, 22 October 2015 (UTC)

Maybe, but I'd prefer not to. I'm gonna need a couple more introductory paragraphs to cover the later dreadnoughts and then can resume work on the individual classes at a paragraph or two apiece. Let's see how it goes.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 12:40, 22 October 2015 (UTC)

Notice of editing; Operation Majestic Titan resumes

Buenas dias. I'm leaving this notice here to alert attentive editors of edits I have begun and will continue to actively make until Friday, June 29 to get this article to Featured Article status. –Vami_IV✠ 17:14, 23 June 2018 (UTC)

Have at it, but be advised that the lead is in pretty good shape, IMIO, so think through any edits that you make there. (Putting on my pedant hat, I do believe that you mean FL, not FA) --Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 20:05, 23 June 2018 (UTC)

Do not use sfn format for cites here; match the existing style. See WP:CITE--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 00:19, 24 June 2018 (UTC)

I question this. I'm going to wind up throwing a lot of Lengerers and Hacketts at readers, and they should be able to easily trace which Lengerer , Chesneau, Hackett, etcetera that I'm using for a given citation. I have my working version at this sandbox. –Vami_IV✠ 01:22, 24 June 2018 (UTC)

I think we should Wikipedia:Ignore all rules here and change the citation format. I've done it to an article before because of the exact problem Vami brought up. It also helps readers to link the citations to the reference as sfn does. I know it's a pain to redo all the citations but I've done it with past articles and I have no problems doing it again with this one if need be.--White Shadows ^{New and improved!}

@White Shadows:: I commend your efforts, and I hesitated in making this post when I checked your userpage (hot damn that top bar), but I want to ask you to approach this more cautiously. I have an establish method for this, and a sandbox I'm hosting my work at (not that you could have known that until this post, though). I had hoped to hog the glory of building this article for myself, but I'd be willing to work with you for this. Por la Enciclopedia. –Vami_IV✠ 01:29, 24 June 2018 (UTC)

I'm so sorry. I didn't check the talk page before plowing straight into this! I wasn't aware you were working on this page.--White Shadows ^{New and improved!}

What a chance! What plan should we work out for working on this, so as to avoid edit conflicts? –Vami_IV✠ 01:40, 24 June 2018 (UTC)

We could do all of the work over at your sandbox and then get an admin to move it. Again, I don't want to take any credit from you if you'd like to bring this to FL (though I suggest this list goes up for an ACR first and then an FL). I definitely want to help you with the citations issue, and the handful of battleships I'm interested in working on (mostly the post Russo-Japanese War ships that were scrapped in the 1920s after doing practically nothing). Again, I have no issues with you taking the lead on this one since you seem to be quite committed to it. Just happy to help!--White Shadows ^{New and improved!}

The line about glory was a jest. I shall sleep and resume my work in the morning (CST). In the meanwhile, feel free to work on what you want to work, and then we can deliberate and tack on more or less material later. –Vami_IV✠ 02:44, 24 June 2018 (UTC)

Following a dispute over citation method, I am discontinuing my work on this list for perpetuity. –Vami_IV✠ 21:02, 24 June 2018 (UTC)

I will carefully reconsider freaking out like this again. –Vami_IV✠ 11:41, 21 July 2018 (UTC)

@White Shadows: Got time to work out a strategy? You have probably caught on to my method of writing for these Lists from the first three entries on this list. I find doing the technical (first) paragraphs easy and the service history (second) paragraphs varying shades of pain in the neck. –Vami_IV✠ 11:52, 21 July 2018 (UTC)

I can do the service history sections. Just let me know which ones you need help on...or if we want things to be consistent we can always rewrite the service history of every class.—White Shadows ^{Let’s Talk} 16:37, 21 July 2018 (UTC)

Citation Format

Everyone,

I'm creating this section to discuss the citations of the list and the format being applied. I changed all of them over to sfn-style and then forgot that WP:CITE exists. In order to avoid a fait accompli, I'd like to open up discussion to the rest of the community to see if we can come up with a consensus regarding what citation style we will use in the list. I have no problem reverting all of my edits back to the previous citation style if that is what the consensus is, and likewise if that is the conclusion we have then I apologize in advance for any inconvenience my editing may have had on others. If we do choose to keep the style I implemented, the good news is that all of the citation work for the article is complete (for now).

--White Shadows ^{New and improved!}

So I had said that I would make no more edits here, but then I blanked the page because I mistook it for a nearly-identical sandbox I had of it. So I'll leave my two cents here. SFN / Harvard citation format is superior in every way to standard ref-tags. A disclaimer I feel I need to make is that I made the argument that the switch to sfn was necessary because the reader might be confused and would have an easier time tracing a source with the same author and date as another. What I didn't account for, in my own pigheaded fashion, is that you could do what I did in ref-tag to undo this. But I still think that doesn't matter. We're still throwing ten billion references at the reader from at least a dozen books alone. Ref-tags are well and good for articles with a dozen or fewer books and other references, but they don't link and I don't like that. And when it comes to working with lots of references/sources, as was the case for me at Ludwigsburg Palace because of the method that I conducted my research with (google), I am biased to a fault in favor of sfnrefs. –Vami_IV✠ 00:15, 4 July 2018 (UTC)

My general perspective is, if someone is willing to do the work to change the refs over, and they're going to be the ones writing the article (or list, in this case), then it shouldn't be an issue. I'm not planning on coming back to work on this list at any point in the near term, and I doubt Sturm is, so if Vami and WS want to switch them over and finish the list, go ahead and do it. A completed list with SFN is better than an unfinished list with "unadulterated" refs. Parsecboy (talk) 12:26, 4 July 2018 (UTC)

If y'all can take it all the way to FL, I'm not going to fuss any further about this as I don't know how much time I'm going to have in the near future to finish this and better completed than not for OMT. But I will say this, WP:CITE is written to avoid these sorts of things, so, in the future, do not change existing, consistently formatted cites in articles to your preferred format, no matter how superior you believe your preferred format is. I've used harv, sfn, and other formats myself when editing existing articles that used those formats throughout, no matter how much it pained me to do so, so y'all need to learn to do the same lest y'all have this little contretemps over and over, with the consequent wasting of time as hard work gets reverted. Honestly, it probably only matters for articles going for GA and above, but it can happen at any time and y'all wouldn't have a leg to stand on when reverted. I'm not trying to be a dick, but people can get surprisingly invested in their format, especially if they figure on maintaining the article long-term, just as much as Vami IV prefers sfn over any others. So don't change formats!--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 21:00, 11 July 2018 (UTC)]]

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