Talk:List of Norfolk airfields

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Incorrect title

This is a List of Norfolk MILITARY airfields.

Whilst it is often the case that modern day civilian flying takes place from former military bases (e.g. Old Buckenham, Shipdham, Seething), this is not always the case. These civilian airfields are mentioned in this list by coincidence, not by design. The list is military-based.

For two examples of civilian airfields in Norfolk NOT covered by this list; East Winch Airfield, and Great Yarmouth – North Denes Airport.

See also - https://www.eastwinchairfield.co.uk/

Gt Yarmouth Heliport/Airport re-opens (2023) - https://www.greatyarmouthmercury.co.uk/news/23520866.great-yarmouth-heliport-reopen-new-management/

WendlingCrusader (talk) 14:52, 3 January 2025 (UTC)

Do we need a airfield county list at all, since the list at List of former Royal Air Force stations is sortable by county? Lincolnshire, Northumberland and Yorkshire have templates instead: {{RAF stations in Lincolnshire}}, {{Royal Air Force stations in Northumberland}} and {{RAF stations in Yorkshire}} Gavbadger (talk) 15:12, 3 January 2025 (UTC)

@Gavbadger

That is a very fair point. I see three options;

1. Add civilian airfields to the existing article
2. Change the title to specify 'military' (only)
3. The template option - not something I have any experience of. In fact, I am not even sure how exactly it relates to "Categories". I would be in favour of it, but I don't personally know how to do it.

WendlingCrusader (talk) 19:50, 3 January 2025 (UTC)

Their is already List of airports in the United Kingdom and the British Crown Dependencies, which has a table that is sortable by county.

Furthermore i have also found List of airports in Norfolk which lists 8 civilian airfields.

I believe either renaming the article so it's only for military or creating a template would be the best option. I've also added to the Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Military history project input section for further comment. Gavbadger (talk) 20:18, 3 January 2025 (UTC)

I would say 'good catch', except you may have opened another can-of-worms.

• Inconsistency #1; currently we have two different formats; List of X in Norfolk and List of Norfolk Y
• Inconsistency #2; in the USA, space is less restricted, and concrete runways are the norm, such that every small town (typically boasting city status) has its own airPORT. In the UK, there are (or used to be) a much higher proportion of airFIELDS that only featured grass runways; the exceptions being former military airBASES blessed with miles of concrete, now in civilian hands.

However, whilst it is true that the older military aerodromes were grass only e.g. from the biplane era, the list of military airbases is unflatteringly downgraded as if all were just grassy airfields. Meanwhile, the list of (mostly) airfields is promoted as a list of airports, with or without a fancy passenger terminal and round-the-clock customs facilities. In reality some of these so-called airports are not much more than a strip of grass, a windsock, and a portaloo.

Then we have the places that fit into both categories, to some extent.

• The list of military airbases includes some that are now civilian airfields
• The list of civilian airports includes some ex-military airbases, despite the lede text saying; "For military or ex-military airfields, see (elsewhere)".

This could be clarified by saying;

List of military airbases, and ex-military airbases that are no longer used in any aviation capacity. For ex-military airfields that are currently in use as civil airports and airfields, see....

Do we want all this additional wording? Or is there a better solution?

Perhaps we need just ONE LIST, broken down into

1. Active military airbases
2. Active civil airfields and airports (including ex-military bases)
3. Inactive/disused airfields and airbases

I do hope I haven't gone off-topic, or just bored you all to tears with detail.

WendlingCrusader (talk) 16:48, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

Hi, i think one list would be best, are you ok with merging (see WP:PROMERGE) the other article into this one? Gavbadger (talk) 16:06, 8 January 2025 (UTC)

@WendlingCrusader, how are you getting on with this? Gavbadger (talk) 19:20, 10 January 2025 (UTC)

@Gavbadger

Please see Merge Proposal below

WendlingCrusader (talk) 19:51, 14 January 2025 (UTC)

Thanks. Bit rushed at the moment both here and in RL (too many projects on the go at once?). Hit me again if I haven't moved on this in seven days.

WendlingCrusader (talk) 19:22, 10 January 2025 (UTC)

Merge proposal

I propose merging List of airports in Norfolk into List of Norfolk airfields. Indeed, it seems as if the process had already commenced some years ago, piecemeal and by accident as such.

1. One is a list of current or former military airfields (in Norfolk), around 53 in total, of which only ONE is now 'current' (RAF Marham). The majority have reverted to farmland, although a small number are now private airstrips/small airfields, or in one case Norwich International Airport.
2. The second list comprises of just nine (9) civil airports, a somewhat generous term as in reality they are mostly small airfields with very limited facilities. Meanwhile six (6) are ex-military, and are thus already duplicated in the earlier list. Any remaining details can be migrated across with minimal effort.
3. Consequently there are really only THREE civil airfields remaining in Norfolk (i.e. grass strips) that have only ever existed as civil airfields with no previous military connection. Maintaining a list of just three entries seems unwarranted.

• There is one small potential issue, involving consolidating Norwich International Airport amongst this larger list of predominantly smaller airfields mixed with derelict wartime bases, but the same could be said for RAF Marham, the home to the F-35 Lightning force, which is already listed there. These two locations will simply either remain as statistical outliers, or could be removed completely if we fine-tune the category to:-

1. Former military (i.e. excluding current)
2. Airfields (i.e. excluding airports with terminal facilities, customs, and concrete runways)

This would ensure neither location is lost within a larger "catch-all" category that doesn't really describe their situation.

Both RAF Marham and Norwich International have their own detailed article, and a clear "See also" / redirect could be incorporated on this page.

Thoughts? WendlingCrusader (talk) 19:49, 14 January 2025 (UTC)

Hi, that seems like a great idea, their is no need to gain a widespread consensus for that, you can just WP:DOIT straightaway, by following WP:PROMERGE. Gavbadger (talk) 19:56, 14 January 2025 (UTC)

@Gavbadger

The MERGE was a real slog in the end, as the tables in each article were set-up differently. I wonder if it would have been somewhat simpler just to drag the information across one bit at a time, particularly as four of the airfields were to a large extent duplicated. But I followed WP:PROMERGE in order to to demonstrate a systematic approach. But after several hours of straightening things out I needed a break, so thanks for finishing off the remaining admin tasks.

As you can probably see, the imported 'live' (non-RAF) airfields naturally arrive at the top of the list simply by alphabetical order, although the columns are sortable so readers can re-arrange them whatever way they want. Of those, Felthorpe Airfield has been around long enough to warrant its own article, hence the redlink. Meanwhile Shipdham Airfield is in the process of being closed down, probably to build another housing estate. Presently I will see if there are any recent updates. But before that happens, I'm taking a proper break to let my keyboard cool-off.

WendlingCrusader (talk) 23:55, 28 January 2025 (UTC)