Talk:List of Brazilian football champions

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1987 Championship History and Truth

The person who previously wrote in this section, is clearly motivated by personal opinion, FIFA and CBF have decleared Sport Clube do Recife sole winner in this year, it's not open for discussion, it's a fact stated by FIFA, and CBF^[1] and Brazilian Justice has accepted as truth.

References

^ http://www.sambafoot.com/en/news/20702_flamengo_stripped_of_1987_title.html

Inclusion of 59-70 titles

Just a few questions to Football history: why did you exclude national titles from 1959 to 1970 if CBF recognized them? Which are your criteria? Have you ever consulted CBF website and Brazilian press?[1][2] Mateus RM ^talk 22:34, 14 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Before Campeonato Brasileiro da Série A, there was 2 tournaments Taça Brasil and Torneio Roberto Gomes Pedrosa. Recently, CBF recognized the champions of those tournaments as champions in Brazilian football history but CBF did not consider them as Campeonato Brasileiro da Série A champions. One cannot change the name of a tournament decades after it had already occurred. So, one cannot change the name of those tournaments to the official "Campeonato Brasileiro da Série A". Therefore, adding those champions from those tournaments from '59-'70 to the List of Brazilian National Champions is like adding titles to countries before the World Cup was formed and saying that those added countries were World Cup champions. I hope that clears it up. --Football history (talk) 00:28, 15 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Football history
— but CBF did not consider them as Campeonato Brasileiro da Série A champions

Yes they did, because "Serie A" is just a name. All are now the same championship with different names.[3] So much so they include these tournement results in their historical ranking. [4] Did you know that "Campeonato Brasileiro da Serie A" is a name used only since 1989 and another name was used in 2000 edition? Take a look at the portuguese, spanish or italian articles, more complete and with more references than this and notice that they include all the titles, as it must be. It is not like make different articles as it is done with the old England championship and Premiere League or the old European Club Cup and Champions League. They are all recognized as historical English and European champions, respectively. But in Brazil Taça Brasil and Robertão are now recognized as unified titles and unified tournements. Mateus RM ^talk 09:58, 15 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I respect Brazilian football history and consider the '59 to '70 teams as part of Brazilian football history but not as Campeonato Brasileiro da Serie A champions because those were not the same tournament. Sorry to tell you this but you nor CBF, nor the press, not even FIFA can't change a tournament's name once the tournament is over because it's history. End of discussion. If you Mateus have any respect for Brazilian football history, you would also recognize Flamengo as the 1987 champion along with Sport as your brazilian press and CBF did. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Football history (talk • contribs) 16:46, 15 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Campeonato Brasileiro Série A was created in 1989. Get your facts straight. In 1971 was Campeonato Nacional de Clubes, in 1976 Copa Brasil, then Taça de Ouro etc. 200.159.252.22 (talk) 18:24, 15 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The article is named List of Brazilian football champions, so it includes not only the Série A but also the preceding competitions, Taça Brasil and Torneio Roberto Gomes Pedrosa. Also, as said above by Mateus RM and 200.159.252.22, the name Campeonato Brasileiro Série A started being used since 1989. --Carioca (talk) 19:35, 15 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Atletico Mineiro was the first Campeonato Brasileiro champion in 1971 and Flamengo was the only champion in 1987. Get your facts straight User:200.159.252.22 and you User:Carioca. You can't change history. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Football history (talk • contribs) 01:33, 16 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Well, you just showed your purpose: to impose your point of view, going against what was defined by CBF. But you will not find any other source beyond controversial blogs to prove this. Different of you, I can show lots of reliable sources, including that already included in the article. Mateus RM ^talk 17:45, 19 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Goes to show your stubbornness and stupidity Mateus RM. I already gave proof that CBF website is not a reliable source and Ricardo Teixeira is not a reliable source either. And since when does CBF define history? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Football history (talk • contribs) 03:56, 29 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

"Football History", do not troll on us. You clearly made an argument that historical names matter more than official recognition, but after someone showed you that there was no name uniformity after 1971 you just changed your arguments and start saying more nonsense. It is obvious you don't care for real evidence, you just have an objective and try to find any argument you can to support it. If you really believed that 1959-70 titles could not be considered equivalent to moderns days National Championshiop because they were not called Série A, than you have to strip all the 1971-1988 too. And don't forget Copa João Havelange in 2000. And if CBF ever change the Série A name to another thing, should we just start counting the titles from zero? I don't see how could this make any sense. 187.20.11.36 (talk) 04:37, 2 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Copa do Brasil and Copa dos Campeões

This list hardly reflects the amount of National Championship won by Brazilian clubs by counting much more amateuristic, shorter and extinguished competitons such as Taça Brasil and ignoring the Brazilian Clubs Cup "Copa do Brasil" http://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Copa_do_Brasil

On a side note, the "Copa dos Campeões" http://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Copa_dos_Campe%C3%B5es was also a national competition, long and wide and should be included on this section of Brazilian National Football Club Champions. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 179.218.218.246 (talk) 06:24, 21 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

It lists only competitions officially recognized as national championships by the CBF plus the 1987 Copa União. as it was an unofficial national championship usually regarded as as important as the official ones by the mainstream media. Copa do Brasil and Copa dos Campeões are cups and are not recognized by CBF as national championsips. Hope that helps. --Carioca (talk) 20:19, 23 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

1987

Champion for the CBF(Brazilian Football Confederation) was SPORT=>http://pt.wiki.x.io/wiki/Copa_Uni%C3%A3o 201.92.203.193 (talk) 17:54, 18 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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[1] ttp://www.sambafoot.com/en/news/20702_flamengo_stripped_of_1987_title.html

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