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Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

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This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 27 August 2020 and 10 December 2020. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Ryanmetier.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 02:06, 17 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Previous discussions without headers

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Fixed the gender pronouns to be consistant with a drag persona.

Well, changed would be a better description than fixed. The 'persona' is female, the 'person' is still male. I can't find any disclaimer of that herein. The name "Jon Ingle" redirects to the article. He might be tickled to have been so convincing, but ...
If someone made a career out of voicing robot parts, would you change that article to "It came to Hollywood seeking a big break into show business" ?
In any case, what drew my attention was the discordant
She began his career alongside ...
Shenme 10:13, 22 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Well, it is considered courtesy to use the female pronouns when one is in drag, and it's pretty much an insult if you refer to them as "he". I know some don't mind, but it really is she by default.

And I fixed that mistake. :)

nickflavor

It is considered in the drag world and the gay community innapproriate and disrepectful to refer to a drag queen by "he" by nature (there are exceptions) but also lady bunny has made it clear her preference in the matter (refer to her interviews over the years). this may violate wikipedia guidelines but this is one part of the world where it really does matter being refered to as a he, esp if you are very passing in a conservative community could get yourself hurt or worse. please respect the voices of a community, and if you are not of the drag community you really don't have much say in the matter in my opinion.

howaboutudance

Cited dicussion does not regard gender at all, just porn performer which is a different animal from a Drag Queen performer.as stated before female pronouns are considered a courtesy.

Please refer to http://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_LGBT_studies#Guidelines point 2 and 3a, also http://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/MOS:IDENTITY#Identity Quote: "Any person whose gender might be questioned should be referred to using the gendered nouns, pronouns, and possessive adjectives that reflect that person's latest expressed gender self-identification. This applies when referring to any phase of that person's life. Nevertheless, avoid confusing or seemingly logically impossible text that could result from pronoun usage (for example: She fathered her first child)."


Lady Bunny has refered to her self in third person as her, she is a professional drag queen with over 25 years worth of experience, thus she is professionally presenting as female, professionally she does not have any other "persona" she has and always been Lady Bunny. Doing a quick search of the new york times she refers to herself as female when interviewed and is even given the courtesy of female pronouns in the Grey Lady [1]

Howaboutudance (talk) 01:41, 4 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

This is in direct contradiction with WP:IN-U, as the drag persona is a fictional female character played by a real person, who is male. The article is about the person, therefore their real gender should be used. The robot remark, however sarcastic, actually pinpoints the problem. As I wrote in my edit summary, unless you can prove that there is an "F" beside the "gender" column in the passport, it's a he.
  • Remark: Quote from earlier discussion – "It is considered in the drag world and the gay community inappropriate and disrespectful to refer to a drag queen by 'he'". Last time I checked, this is Wikipedia, not LGBT Wiki. This is another case of in-universe thinking that should not be applied in an article. Hearfourmewesique (talk) 17:07, 4 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

We still will have to stand by the "person's latest expressed gender self-identification." sure Lady Bunny has her times, as Jon, out of face, but we are talking about Lady Bunny, She is presenting *exclusively* as female, Lady Bunny does not even give interviews as Jon, Only after pestering by the NYT in the early 90's did she even disclose here real name.

Also realize we have multiple policies that can conflict, however, being this a LGBT Person who markets, and focuses herself on the LGBT community, and out of respect of the fact of her being, technically, a Transgendered person, she fits under LGBT Wikiprojects Policies.

Howaboutudance (talk) 02:08, 5 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Since the article itself is about a female persona, the WP:MOS#Identity guideline is the one that prevails. The article just isn't about a *he* - it's about a *she*. If the article were about Jon, then it would use male pronouns. One suggestion, though, is to use the person's name more often - instead of "She began her career", use "Lady Bunny began her career". -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 06:12, 5 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ http://www.nytimes.com/1999/09/03/nyregion/public-lives-flamboyant-certainly-from-head-to-heels.html?src=pm

SRO at Decadence

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Does whoever submitted this have a reference? What was the venue for the show? Most of Decadence takes place on the street, so an SRO crowd isn't really saying much.rich 18:02, 22 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Source

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--Another Believer (Talk) 22:27, 1 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

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Non-operative trans woman

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Lady Bunny has stated more than once that she will not transition yet feels kinship and commonality with trans women. Thus, she is a non-operative trans woman. I don't understand the fuss.--2601:C4:C300:1BD0:A8C4:44B6:EDDD:E64E (talk) 02:12, 25 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

feels kinship and commonality with trans women -- which is very different from being a trans woman. You can't just say thus, she is a [...] trans woman. Umimmak (talk) 04:16, 25 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
2601:C4:C300:1BD0:A8C4:44B6:EDDD:E64E, unless you can link a reliable source where Lady Bunny clearly identifies herself as trans (i.e. isn't just talking about her general feelings toward trans people), we can't include this claim in the article. Extrapolating from something else she said counts as original research, which isn't allowed on Wikipedia. Armadillopteryxtalk 04:26, 25 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
You clearly do not have consensus for this, and such identification is a serious matter under our Biographies of Living Persons policy. Do not reinsert into article until you find consensus first. --Nat Gertler (talk) 05:05, 25 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Gleeanon409: re [2] and adding Lady Bunny identifies as gender fluid — again this is not supported by the sources, which only quote her saying I do feel that gender is fluid, so I do feel as if I’m part of that community and write Of course, Bunny is a white, cisgender man when she's out of drag, and she readily acknowledges the privileges that come with that, respectively, that first quote is not enough to say Lady Bunny specifically “identifies as gender fluid”. Umimmak (talk) 07:08, 25 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Gleeanon409, Umimmak: To avoid misrepresentation of what the subject said in those sources, perhaps we should include the information as a direct quote rather than by paraphrasing. Armadillopteryxtalk 07:32, 25 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
When did Lady Bunny say that she is a man? If Lady Bunny isn't a non-operative trans woman, then there is no such thing.--2601:C4:C300:1BD0:205D:EA33:80C7:AD0A (talk) 02:33, 26 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
That’s a red herring. What you need is a reliable source that says she’s trans, without it you have nothing. Gleeanon409 (talk) 03:13, 26 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Your literalist approach doesn't explain your removal of Bunny's direct quotes about her gender (non)-transition.--2601:C4:C300:1BD0:205D:EA33:80C7:AD0A (talk) 03:32, 26 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
You want to change the article, it will only be supported if it comes with reliable sourcing. Either present those or move on, you’re being disruptive at this point. Gleeanon409 (talk) 04:24, 26 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

CoverGurlz

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---Another Believer (Talk) 02:04, 20 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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