Talk:Kuruba

Untitled

Please give the reasons before marking any info as {{{NPOV}}} TT 12:33, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

@@@I have a doubt its written in the article that Kurubas are called Kapus in Andhra.. and Gollas. But Kapus and Gollas donot have matrimonial alliances and are two separate Castes... The Kapu's are very large in number while the Golla population is less when compared to the Kapus of Andhra.. Kapus are also called Naidu in Andhra

Could you please clarify on what basis this has been written any sources??? Please do reply

Kaapus and KUrubas are NOT the same, Kaapu is a working class community only belongs to Andhra Pradesh , But Kuruba is a dominating community in Karnataka and other parts of India. These two castes are totally different by all means.

@@ i am curious to know in what way were the Mauryas related to the Kurubas?

Kurubas were the kings of Hoyasala dynasty who are also called as Mauyras

Are Kurubas and Kuruma / Kuruma Gollas from Andhra Pradesh same? --Vyzasatya 20:12, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

I appreciate the valuable information posted ought here. I think it would be great to include the list of civil servants successful in UPSC (at least latest ones), Software Engineers and also the contribution of females as I don't see a single name in the famous personalities list. They deserve appreciation for their accomplishments too. Sure lot youngsters’ derive lot of inspiration by looking at these articles.

Hi. In regard to 'Mauryas related to Kurubas?'. I would like to clarify that the head of Maurya dynasty is Chandragupta Maurya, a Kuruba by caste, who conqured Nanda Dynasty and started Empire of Mourya. Then started from Hakka and Bukka, starting Vijayanagar Empire, as all knows..

I too would request WIKI-PEOPLE to get genere of Kurubas' and to give a clear picture on Kurubas. As some of us know that the Kurubas are of the main in ruling the then Asian continent. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mahesh9604 (talk • contribs) 12:03, 4 August 2014 (UTC)

Varna Status

In the Varna status it is mentioned that Kuruba are generally seen as social equals to Vokkaligas and Reddys. This is contested. Feldhaus(1989) provided for the above does not state what is claimed. This is Feldhaus (1989), Page 126 [1]. Only Nanjundayya does, but it not WP:RS for points of contention as it’s a colonial era source.

The following is a quote from Census of India, 1981: Karnataka. Series 9, Page 128.[2]

“According to Pattole-palame, compiled in about 1924 by Nadakerianda Chinnappa, the Nairs, Bunts, Vokkaligas and Vellalas enjoyed equal social status with the Kodavas. The Tiyyas, Billavas, Agasa, Heggade etc., formed the next lower group. Members of these castes had access to aU the parts of a Kodava's house except the kitchen, the Kannikom- bare (room where family deities are kept) and Ne/lakki Nadubade. (central ball where the family light is kept). The Yeravas, Kurubas and the Pales ranked next and members of this group would come up to the jagali or the raised platform of the Kodava's nouse but no further. The fourth group consisting of Holeyas, Medars etc., had to stop at the courtyard. Persons belonging to the third and the fourth group had no right to mark their foreheads with sandal paste or vermillion dust and so also their men had no right to suffix their names with the honorific suffixes like Appa, Anna and Ayya. It may be noted that most of the middle aged and elderly Yeravas totally conform to these customary restrictions though they are aware that the rigidity which marked the social life in rural areas has more or less vanished and that very few Kodavas are now interested in enforcing such rules. 

Moreover the Kurubas are classified as OBC in the central list. While majority of the Vokkaligas and Reddys are excluded from the central OBC list.[3] Moreover in the state list Kurubas come under Category IIA while Vokkaligas and Reddys come under Category 3A.[4]

So the point is debatable. Franky it’s unnecessary to even mention Vokkaligas and Reddys in an article about Kurubas. It’s a POV push for caste glorification.

106.206.15.82 (talk) 16:05, 8 August 2021 (UTC)

You are trying to forge/misrepresent information here. The Feldaus source you have tagged is an incorrect one. The one you have tagged is about Lord Vitthal which is based on the work of R.C. Dhere. However, the one mentioned in this article for the concerned issue is based on the work of Sontheimer (Feldhaus, Anne (1989). Sontheimer, Gunther-Dietz (ed.). Pastoral Deities in Western India. Oxford University Press. ISBN 9780195055009.) He was a German Ethnographer who spent years in the 80s studying pastoral cultures of the Deccan region, living with the community for multiple years. A work by well known researchers like Feldaus and Sontheimer, and published by Oxford University press is very reliable. Secondly, You are trying to dig within OBC class categories (2A vs 3A) to determine hierarchy. That's WP:OR, you can't derive your own conclusions because you are creating hierarchies within OBCs. An established researcher will have to provide this conclusion, not your personal conclusions. Finally, please don't quote anything from Raj Era sources, they are unreliable. Anthony gomes 92 (talk) 02:01, 15 August 2021 (UTC).

Yes, I realised I made a mistake and tagged the wrong source. Can you provide the exact quote from the book you’ve cited? i.e, Anne Feldhaus. Yes, it says they were Prathama Sudras. I am not debating this. But I’m not able to find anything that states they were considered equal to Vokkaligas and Reddys.

About Raj Era sources, Nanjundayya which you have used is a Raj Era source to claim Kurubas are equal to Vokkaligas and Reddy is a Raj Era source. You are quoting him directly. I am not doing that, I am giving you a source from 1981 which cites an older source. This is as per Wikipedia guidelines on referencing for caste articles.

That being said, here are more sources that caste doubts on the claim that they were considered equals: Other populations like, Beda and Kuruba are considered as clean groups and have status below to Lingayat and Vokkaliga.[5] This is from the 1901 census, Vokkaligas are Sat Shudras while Kurubas were considered Shudras polluting shudras [6]

Moreover, I’m not trying to dig within ‘OBC’ class as you claim. OBC is a term used by the central govt and Most Vokkaliga subcastes and Reddys are not included in the central govt OBC list (The references for which I’ve provided above). At the state govt level there is classification of communities into Backward Classes into separate categories and different percentages of reservation given to each. Kuruba fall into the 2A category which has 15% reservations v.s Vokkaligas and Reddys at 4%.[7] Moreover Vokkaligas from urban areas aren’t eligible for reservation. While some Kurubas even get ST reservation. So clearly the govt officially does not consider them as socio- economically equal to the Vokkaligas and Reddys.

I am reverting the edits now. Please give me the exact quote from Feldhaus which states that Kurubas were considered equal to Vokkaligas and Reddys. Thank you. 2409:4071:211C:BC50:E05C:3347:2765:90AE (talk) 03:52, 16 August 2021 (UTC)

Exact sentence - "Vakkaligas and Reddis are the dominant farmers of the pastoral region; they hold the same rank in the caste system as Kurubas". It is the last sentence on page 112 of the book. I have removed the Raj Era sources. We don't care what people said in 1901 or 1924. Also, Kurubas can be easily confused with Kurumba tribes (different people) or Kurubas from the Coorg district who is an ST community. Please do not revert the status quo without consensus on the talk page. You first reverted long-existing changes without consensus. This is your last warning. Anthony gomes 92 (talk) 02:19, 17 August 2021 (UTC).

@Anthony gomes 92:

The what about this source from 1989[8] which clearly says “Other populations like, Beda and Kuruba are considered as clean groups and have status below to Lingayat and Vokkaliga”. And what about the difference is classification by the state govt and central govt of India? Also, I noticed you reverted the change[9] that quotes Nanjundayya who claims that according to the Madras census of 1891 Kurubas are descendants of the Kurumba tribe who were probably the Pallavas.

Even your Dhere source claiming that Yadavarayas and Pallavas were Kurubas is basically a quote from Attre (1902).[10]

You’ve conveniently accepted a Raj Era sources from 1891 and 1902 and misquoted Nanjundayya to POV push for kurubas. But when I quote later sources you dismiss them? Please be consistent. Also kindly stop making empty threats, I know Wikipedia rules and I have not broken any. Let’s sort this issue in a civilised way. 157.50.45.24 (talk) 08:24, 17 August 2021 (UTC)

If the Raj Era sources are validated/re-affirmed by an established author post-Raj Era then I don't have any problem adding it. My problem is with adding it directly or quoting it from unreliable sources. I am fine with Dhere/Feldaus. Government sources are unreliable on caste matters, there is a parallel discussion going on on the Khatri page where Sitush points this out. If you are talking about just quoting OBC/SC/ST list then it is fine.

By the way, there was content before me or added by other authors. Wherever editors have quoted only Raj Era sources, I think we should remove that or add a reliable source backing that information. But don't make changes without consensus. Anthony gomes 92 (talk) 12:54, 17 August 2021 (UTC).

Update - I have removed the direct Raj Era sources and information associated with that. Anthony gomes 92 (talk) 13:03, 17 August 2021 (UTC).

@Anthony gomes 92: Okay, so you’re not accepting the sources I provide because Govt sources are considered less reliable. Alright. Since it’s a point of contention, let Feldhaus’ opinion stay. I noticed you had made some deletions, but you have made errors leaving some source code behind. I shall revert it to your last best version. You don’t need to remove older sources unless they’re a point of contention I guess. I’m not contesting Kuruba claims to descendant from the Kurumbas or Pallavas. So even if you let those sources stay I have no issues. thanks. 2409:4071:2206:778C:D18A:FB7D:D022:DFAB (talk) 03:53, 18 August 2021 (UTC)

@Anthony gomes 92: These are three new non government sources that state contest Feldhaus statement of Kuruba being social equals to Reddys and Vokkaligas. [11][12] [13] All of these are newer than Feldhaus. I shall remove that statement from the Varna section as it’s not accurate.

Merger

i accidentally removed the merger tag, i am not 100% sure that kuruma gollas and kurubas are the same Dear Editor,

Yes, they are the same.

There are various types of Gollas and kurubas with distinct occupations and cultural practices.As people of these subsects are migrating into non traditional occupations, their culture is changing resulting in disappearance of the differences in the subsects.

But the differences among the Kurumas and Gollas in Telangana are becoming thin and thinner over a period and they are fusing into one another.in Telangana,Kurma Gollas are same as Gollas. It can be seen from the fact that they have a common occupation of goat herding and sheep rearing, common God(Mallanna or Mallikarjunaswamy), a priest(oggu pujari),oggu katha and same musical instrument, Dol.The homogenous culture, economy and geography is the binding element.The difference among them is insignificant.That is the reason that Kurubas or Kuruvas or Kurumas of Telangana are referred to as Kuruma Gollas by the people of other communities.Several Kuruma families of Medak district carry surname of Golla.

There is a historical perspective to this relationship.This relationship can be established from the fact that Beerappa, the clan God of Kurubas,in almost all Oggu Kathas(ballads) claims that he is son in law of Devagiri King.The historical fact is Ramachandra-1, the ruler of Devagagiri was Yadava king with sway over all over the present day Maharashtra, till he was defeated by the legions of Malik kafar, the commander of Khilji.His son in law Harpal dev and son Prahlad dev were the last Yadava Rulers of Devagiri dynasty.

Regarding the prominent people Kurubas you can add the following:

1.Dr.Satyavant.M.Mallanna, founder of Institute of Preventive Medicine in Hyderabad and Member of Indian Chloroform Commission that visited England to demonstrate that chloroform can be administered as anaesthesia with less risk levels.

2. General Sri Nagesh,(Son of Dr.S.M.Mallana),who studied in London Public School and became second Indian to become chief Army Staff. He was in charge of Kumaon regiment for several years. On retirement from the army, he was Governor of Assam,Mysore and Andhra Pradesh.He was also principal of Administrative Staff College of India at Hyderabad.

Late K.Chandraiah,IAS, in his book on Hyderabad paid glorious tributes SM Mallanna and Gen Sri Nagesh.

3. Kollur Mallappa, first President, Hyderabad Pradesh Congress Committee, prior to the merger of Hyderabad state into Andhra Pradesh.He was Memeber of Parliament from Raichur, now in Karnataka for several terms. He was mentor of late Prime Minister P.V.Narasimha Rao,several leaders like Virendra Patil, Shivaraj Patil,S.B.Chavan and G.venkataswamy etc.He founded Kuruma Sangham and Kuruma hostel in Hyderabad.

4.Bandaru Dattatraya, 3 terms MP from Secunderabad Lok Sabha constituency and former Union Minister.

Though there are many worth mentioning,these additions can make the site complete.

Yours warmly

Pasham Yadagiri, Hyderabad. 3.

• Thank you for your suggestion! When you feel an article needs improvement, please feel free to make whatever changes you feel are needed. Wikipedia is a wiki, so anyone can edit any article by simply following the Edit this page link at the top. You don't even need to log in! (Although there are some reasons why you might like to...) The Wikipedia community encourages you to be bold. Don't worry too much about making honest mistakes—they're likely to be found and corrected quickly. If you're not sure how editing works, check out how to edit a page, or use the sandbox to try out your editing skills. New contributors are always welcome. NickelShoe 03:34, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

To Pasham Yadagiri

Dear Mr Yadagari, i have added ur contents to Kurubas, u seem to know a lot about them and their history, if u can contibute more to make it better it will be great - Ganesha1

Other Names and Sub-Castes

If the stuff listed is really alternate names, they shouldn't have separate articles. The information at the other names should be merged over here, and the article should be turned into a redirect. NickelShoe 00:11, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

Redirect from Kurumba and EB 1911

Hi! For the MEA article list, I have placed a redirect from Kurumba to Kuruba. Further, there are the respective tags for EB. Please retain the details at the time of merger. --ΜιĿːtalk 15:43, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

What on earth does "retain the details at the time of merger" mean? NickelShoe 16:22, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

1) Kurumba redirects here, NOT Kuruma 2) Retain {{WikiProject Missing encyclopedic articles}}, {{1911}} and EB section during/after merger edits. --ΜιĿːtalk 16:29, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

I appreciate the valuable information posted ought here. I think it would be great to include the list of civil servants successful in UPSC (at least latest ones), Software Engineers and also the contribution of females as I don't see a single name in the famous personalities list. They deserve appreciation for their accomplishments too. Sure lot youngsters’ derive lot of inspiration by looking at these articles.

There are lot of differences in surnames of shephereds. Software professional are required to make a website with the name of Great Shephereds and let them the peoples add their names with their Surnames and Gotras according to Statewise.

L.C. Pal lcpal@rediffmail.com 9811444654 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lakhmi (talk • contribs) 10:30, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

back to original form

I have painstakingly rstores this particle to its original for after being repeatedly vandalised by people. I am going to add the references to my additions soon. I request people editing this page to give reasons before doing it, thanking you (Ganesha1 (talk) 22:42, 14 September 2012 (UTC))

Should This be Merged?

http://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Kurumbar_(tribe) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.206.181.191 (talk) 22:51, 7 July 2018 (UTC)

Perhaps Kuruba suresh and Sitush, who have both recently edited the page, might like to comment on this long-standing merge proposal. I'm unsure about the merge given the significant differences in the content and the minimal referencing. Klbrain (talk) 05:47, 10 June 2019 (UTC)

Certainly Kuruba are also known as Kurumbar but whether they are the same as the Gounders is anyone's guess. Some sort of dabhat might be better for now. - Sitush (talk) 05:55, 10 June 2019 (UTC)

Sounds like a plan. Klbrain (talk) 15:57, 11 August 2019 (UTC)

Resolved

Notable people

Please read the information given at User:Sitush/Common#Castelists before expanding the list of notable people in this article. I've just reverted a massive expansion because a random sample showed every single one of those looked at was contrary to those notes, which have community consensus behind them. - Sitush (talk) 01:20, 3 September 2019 (UTC)

Scheduled Tribe

Amidst claims of political corruption, there are numerous news sources suggesting that Scheduled Tribe status might be granted - eg: [14], [15], [16], [17]. Has anything definite happened now? This article needs a lot of work. - Sitush (talk) 07:38, 30 June 2020 (UTC)

Vijaynagar empire

Anthony gomes 92 What's the current status of Kuruba? SC ST or OBC. I need some info regarding their association with Vijaynagara Empire. The Kama claims to have worked as ministers and official under Vijaynagara rulers. Ironically, they are considered as forward caste as I can see from their article. Are Kuruba founders of Vijaynagara.? Heba Aisha (talk) 09:18, 24 December 2020 (UTC)

Hi Heba Aisha, There are two distinct communities by the name Kuruba in Karnataka:

Shepherds who are OBCs: Kuruba (excluding Coorg District), Kurub, Kurab, Kuruban, Kurumban, Kurumba, Lingayat Kuruba / Kurubaru, Halumatha, Dhangar, Bharwad, Goraya.

Forest tribes who are STs: Kuruba (in Coorg district), Jenu Kuruba, Kadu Kuruba, Kurumans.

Kuruba origin of Vijayanagara Empire founders is mentioned in most of the sources, traditional and modern, I find online (Google books and scholar, Harvard Hollis). Just like many other pastoralist families of the Deccan empires (Seunas, Hoysalas) of the medieval era, Vijayanagara Empire too claimed Yadava lineage. These families elevated their traditional pastoralist god, Vitthal, into a form of Vishnu-Krishna and accorded high prestige to his worship. Dhere does a good job of reconciling both "Founders of the Vijayanagara Empire were Yadavas therefore they were Kurubas". He cites their worship of Vitthal and Virupaksha. Kurubas worship these gods as brothers. Virupaksha is a sanskritized version of Virupa, where Virupa means strange looking or ugly, indicating the strange three eyes of Shiva and aksha means eyes. Virappa/Birappa is a honorific version of Virupa, where "-appa" is a honorific suffix indicating fatherhood in Kannada. Virappa/Birappa is the exclusive god of Kurubas and Virupaksha was Vijayanagar founder’s family deity (kuladevata), and became the principal deity of the state during their reign. Most of these dynasties were Shudras and the Sanskritization process is in line with connecting themselves to the Yadava tribe of Puranas to elevate their status, and Hakka I sanskritizing his name to Harihara I. Dhere further looks at the inscriptions on the temples built by them and traditional sources. Contemporary travelers of the Vijayanagara era, like Duarte Barbosa, also quote the founders as Kuruba. Current Archaeological Survey of India also considers them as Kurubas.

I haven't done enough reading on Kamma caste and their association with Vijayanagara Empire, looks like they were employed in various positions within the Empire and played a key role.Anthony gomes 92 (talk) 14:23, 25 December 2020 (UTC)

References

Protection request

There has been a edit warring going on here without reaching consensus on talk page, I would request to stop this. The person is reverting the changes from IP address. Anthony gomes 92 (talk) 02:34, 17 August 2021 (UTC).

Not done: If there is indeed an edit war occurring on this page I believe this would be better reported to WP:RFPP/WP:AVI if it's straight vandalism or WP:ANI if there are regular editors involved and other dispute resolution has been exhausted. But the editors monitoring the edit requests will generally be unable to be help. Cheers! —Sirdog9002 (talk) 03:35, 17 August 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 18 August 2022

The below line should be edited as kurumba tribe is different from kuruba caste

This article is about the pastoral community in Karnataka. For the similarly-named tribe of the Nilgiris, see Kurumba (tribe) Hone2790 (talk) 15:37, 18 August 2022 (UTC)

Publish Hone2790 (talk) 15:38, 18 August 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 9 October 2022

Adarsh446 (talk) 15:39, 9 October 2022 (UTC)

In North India, they are called Gadaria.

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. 3mi1y (talk) 07:58, 18 October 2022 (UTC)

References

Before you make Edits and Add comments, Note these:

I have searched various sources and studied lots of backgrounds to add correct information and citations. If anyone tries to vandalise or tries to remove any contents without giving adequate and satisfactory reasons in the talk page or adding unnecessary material, would lose their editing capabilities and arbitrators of Wikipedia would be called to remove their account's capabilities and would be tagged as unworthy.

Maintain dignity. This is not anybody's casteist political magazines. This is Wikipedia.

Any one can cite any reference be it old or new. All are valid unless they are spurious in content. In this way I have gathered various amounts of information to make necessary changes. The inscriptional studies are very very important even though they are old. The Much older the inscriptions and histories, more valid it is in order to trace the history. So histories are very very important.

And one should understand differences between between SC and ST. Both are different. The Government of India vests interests in protecting the downtrodden castes and hence they are scheduled Castes.

And Kurubas are not backward castewise. They are backward economically and educationally when COMPARED with the ECONOMICALLY AND EDUCATIONALLY A BIT HIGHER to the Kurubas (Other OBCs above Kurubas) and MUCH HIGHER than the Kurubas (Those in General Merit). But, this has nothing to do with the history of the Kurubas. The history and the future of the Kurubas will always remain great.

The status of castes in any particular region many times depends on population and beliefs. A backward class considered high somewhere may be seen low elsewhere. Includes factors such as Population, Economy and Personal interests of people.

Scheduled Tribe refers to the forest people who have had nothing to do with the castes. They would have had minimal touch or lost touch with the society for many centuries and got separated either to the failures in their wars in order to hide from enemies or they led their life in forests. Forests are the source of creation on the planet. Before civilizations existed forests existed and humans were tribal irrespective of whatever their religion or caste status. As a result, Tribals are valued in every country and they are usually rich with respect to medicinal plants in the forests and they help in Anthropology. Therefore they are 'Scheduled' (reserved) to be protected by the Government. All people residing in Villages and cities have changed themselves so much from their tribal nature and have forgotten histories for many thousands of years. So, it is advantageous to study how people develop from forests. Hence they are important assests as far as researches are concerned. Be Humans! And remember we are all Humans first!

This is not the platform to show who is great. Wikipedia exists in order to document actual facts. Not for quarrels.

And All Kurubas in Karnataka are not obtaining ST reservations. Currently the reservation is for Kadu Kurubas, Betta Kurubas, Jenu Kurubas who have shown themselves to be tribal. Of course, Both Village and City Kurubas are distinct both socially and ethnically from Kadu Kurubas, And also the word kuruba may mean both Shepherds(kuri in kannada= Sheep) and Hill-people (kuri also means hills in Southern karnataka and few states) according to regions, further studies need to be done.

In other castes, such as Halakki Vokkaligas are demanding for ST status. Konda Reddys are STs

Forward castes refers to the increase in the economic and social status of castes. All castes which were considered backward would be examined routinely to analyze their situations of their backward status. If any community works sufficiently and able to go forward from their backward nature, they are considered as Forward Castes. This definition does not apply to the people who were classified as General Merits already immediately after Independence of India.

And with the existing situation the forward castes which are listed in Central list have remained backward in State List and claiming reservations. And even the forwarded castes that come under general category may sooner or later would get reservations as has been ordered by the Supreme Court.

Taking all these into consideration, you should consider your comments. If unnecessary edits are noticed then we will urge wikipedia to take strict action against those account. CSCM01 (talk) 00:14, 26 January 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 18 March 2024

need to edit kurumba as kurumans . As the kurumans are the tribes and give the website link to kurumans Sanjaygounder (talk) 19:17, 18 March 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Jamedeus (talk) 19:44, 18 March 2024 (UTC)