Talk:Karakurt-class corvette

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Military history: Maritime / Russian & Soviet

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Apparent vandalism

User FalloutNewVegas69 is removing information from reliable sources from at least two articles about Russian warships (Natya-class_minesweeper and Karakurt-class_corvette). I've taken the liberty of warning them once. (see User talk:FalloutNewVegas69). MechanoidWarhead (talk) 19:03, 23 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Askold reported by Telegram as in service/combat: unverified by RS

Rybar just claimed that Askold destroyed a Ukrainian USV, which presumably means that sea trials (as listed in the article) are over.

Hopefully a better source will appear soon.

RadioactiveBoulevardier (talk) 23:42, 15 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Or not necessarily. Given the surge in frequent Ukrainian drone activity as far east as Novorossiysk, they could reasonably have encountered the USV on sea trials. Well, I’m sure OSINT RS will eventually appear. RadioactiveBoulevardier (talk) 23:52, 15 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Not seeing any RS yet. Springnuts (talk) 20:40, 4 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Class Overview and Ships Table Inconsistencies

1) The Karakurt Class Corvette article ships table lists 18 vessels two of which are cancelled. The Class Overview "planned" category only lists 16 vessels. The Class Overview Planned category should have a value of 18 since the two cancelled vessels were part of the class plan. 2) The Class Overview "completed" category lists 13 vessels as complete but based on the ships table only 4 are active and thus (fully) complete. The article apparently includes "launched" and "sea trial" ships table status values in the count of complete. Launched ships typically are incomplete and spend time, in some cases years, at a fitting out pier as construction and installation of equipment is performed so it is inaccurate to count them as complete. Similarly, "sea trial" is a stage of the construction process during which defects and problems are often found that require remediation before actual vessel acceptance and commissioning. It would be best to count as complete only those naval vessels accepted and commissioned by the purchasing navy. 3) The Karakurt Class Ship Table Askold row status gives a note on the November 4 attack that is inconsistent with the other status column values as it states a historical event and not a vessel status. Further it is redundant with the last paragraph of the history section. The Askold status should be changed to an appropriate ship status value and should not be counted as complete. SpurnWater71 (talk) 18:06, 8 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Tsiklon reported sunk

Reported today, but no RS as yet. Springnuts (talk) 10:49, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Is this [1] reliable enough? It mentions primary sources.

--85.159.196.176 (talk) 14:43, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Tsiklon status

Since there has been no reported confirmation of either the ship's active or inactive (sunk) status, we should leave the status as unknown. Even the Reuters article states it cannot get independent confirmation. Llammakey (talk) 11:41, 23 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

BV 70.76.248.151 (talk) 01:12, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Need a better source than armyrecognition.com since the source saying unconfirmed is Reuters. Need a WP:RS to say otherwise. Until independently confirmed in a WP:RS - status should remain as unknown. Llammakey (talk) 15:08, 27 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Your edits/reversions are redundant. Saying that the ship is claimed destroyed implies that it's status is unknown. However, using "claimed" adds context that "unknown" doesn't; it carries with it that a source is asserting something is true, but that the truth hasn't been confirmed. Reuters is a notable source, and found the claim notable enough to report. I think that's sufficient until there's a source that can confirm or refute the reported claim with proof. MechanoidWarhead (talk) 15:17, 29 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Three things : 1) Nice of you to engage on the talk page instead of slapping me with an edit warring tag. 2) The editor I had reverted had marked the ship as destroyed in the infobox, and had not deigned to discuss their decision anywhere. 3) There you go, you made my point. What you are claiming is that the Ukrainian claims are true and that is not WP:NEUTRAL. That is taking the Ukrainian military and their propaganda at their word. If that was the case, Putin's ramblings should be the gospel truth too - they too come from a prejudiced government source. If you are invested in this war in such a way you cannot remain neutral, may I suggest you stop editing pages about the Ukrainian-Russian war. I have seen other editors do this kinda thing and it always leads to blocks. Llammakey (talk) 17:01, 29 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I don't mean to be rude, but is english your first language? I'm inclined to believe that english is perhaps not your first language, because nowhere did I claim that Ukraine's statements are true. What is true is that the Ukraine government has made the claim. That's all we know. No reliable Russian source has denied it. No reliable independent source has verified it. Hence the word "claim". You are either not understanding what is written, or you're intentionally misrepresenting my position. I'm trying to give you the benefit of the doubt, but your tone is increasingly hostile and passive-aggressive to the point where your motivations beg scrutiny. MechanoidWarhead (talk) 14:34, 30 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah we are done. You are not acting in good faith, you are attacking an editor after you began this interaction by hitting me with an edit warring tag and now you are claiming I do not speak English. You are being rude. "Claimed" does not add context you think it does. Claimed by whom? Unknown gives the editor exactly what the status of the ship is - unknown. No one knows. That is what Reuters says. They cannot independently confirm Ukraine's claims and Russia has not said anything. By saying "claimed destroyed" to the passing reader you have given Ukraine's propaganda claim a heightened status, hence not remaining WP:NEUTRAL, which I again, suggest you read. Llammakey (talk) 15:00, 30 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I never claimed you didn't speak english. I have been nothing but respectful to you, even when you have continually attacked me on a personal level. The fact that you're accusing me of giving "Ukraine's propaganda claim a heightened status" is a good indicator of where your headspace is at. MechanoidWarhead (talk) 19:43, 30 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]