Talk:Johnny Somali

Japanese Article that Includes police investigation ascertaining to johnny somalis ethnicity as ethiopian

https://web.archive.org/web/20230929103712/https://news.yahoo.co.jp/articles/2224f9fad0ccff5a76140ceaaafdff72b8be95f1

You will find it in page 2 where its stated Suspect Khalid is said to be of Ethiopian descent... the wiki page should be changed since it is wrong to label him as somali when this national japanese news article clearly debunks this. Braveeagle836 (talk) 20:16, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

Thw current enwiki article says "Ismael was born in Phoenix, Arizona, to a Somali father and an Ethiopian mother". So he's both. seefooddiet (talk) 21:28, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

The article being used is a spam article while the one I provided is a credible national japanese news article which also includes a police investigation and they clearly stated him to be ethiopian. Many other sources also debunk his claim of being of somali descent. Braveeagle836 (talk) 05:28, 31 October 2024 (UTC)

BBC News is considered a reliable source on Wikipedia. seefooddiet (talk) 05:47, 31 October 2024 (UTC)

As a side note, see this below thread. I think its likely the user I'm replying to in this thread is affiliated with that Somali forum (likely the user who posted about changing Wikipedia and the Japanese police investigation). Considering the incentive to try and disassociate Johnny Somali with Somalia, I would treat this with skepticism. We rely on what reliable sources are saying. The Japanese investigation can be mentioned, but it should be given appropriate weight, per WP:DUE. seefooddiet (talk) 03:53, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

johnny somali has confirmed in his livestream multiple times, that he is Ethiopian and mixed with Yemeni. He also mentioned the tribe his father is from (Oromo) B.n1pr (talk) 12:41, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

I already replied to you below seefooddiet (talk) 17:10, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

No that was not me that was someone else. By the way are you the editor who put his ethniticy on his wiki page. B.n1pr (talk) 19:23, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

[1] Yes it was you. No, I was not the one to put his ethnicity. I don't care what his ethnicity is. What I do know is that a lot of people care, often for reasons that are purely nationalistic. seefooddiet (talk) 19:45, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

Also considering he claimed he was a Somalian child soldier before I don't think we should trust anything he says. You really think he's trustworthy? seefooddiet (talk) 17:48, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

than why would the editor confirm his ethnicity if anything he says is not trustworthy. The Somalic community on tiktok has called him out for the slurs and innaproiate things he said about the country and citizens. This happend on tiktoklive. Plus before he went by the name “johnny Somali” he went by habesha capital. B.n1pr (talk) 19:20, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

Because that's what the BBC reported, and the BBC is a reliable source. I dislike Johnny Somali and don't know what his ethnicity is (and honestly don't care). He doesn't represent Somali, Ethiopia, Yemen, or wherever. I am solely trying to apply Wikipedia standards; I apply these same standards on every other page. seefooddiet (talk) 19:47, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

Hi the BBC article mentions what he alleges he is but offers no confirmation that he is. So it should say He claims to be

There is another reliable news website that clarifies that he is actually Ethiopian and not Somali and that he has been criticized for using it as his Alias.

Despite his alias, Ismael is not of Somali descent; he previously confirmed that he is of Ethiopian heritage

'

https://www.hiiraan.com/news4/2024/Nov/198864/american_youtuber_johnny_somali_criticized_by_somali_diaspora_for_damaging_identity.aspx

With that said i am going to include this source and the yahoo source

Since it's confirmed that he is both an Americana and Ethiopian. It should say Ethiopian-American. GebreAraara (talk) 07:24, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

Several things to note:

• There is now conflicting information about his ethnicity. You should mention that the information is conflicting. Do not portray him as unambiguously Ethiopian.
• You should not put "Ethiopian-American" in the lead, per MOS:ETHNICITY. You should just mention his descent in the body, in the early life section.

seefooddiet (talk) 07:52, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

Now we have additional two credible sources one from that Yahoo news link that other editor mentioned and another from a reliable news website saying that he is of Ethiopian descent and that his not Somali despite the alias he carries. So its pretty straight forward.

I'll keep it balanced. But it's important to structure it to separate what is claimed from what other sources confirm him to be.

Is it ok if i add a criticism section? GebreAraara (talk) 12:07, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

It's not straightforward. Straightforward is if all the sources agreed or if you had an overwhelming majority. 2 to 1 is not straightforward.

Criticism sections are discouraged per WP:CSECTION, especially for WP:BLP. seefooddiet (talk) 19:01, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

The truth will be revealed B.n1pr (talk) 20:19, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

The thing is you could be right; he could be 100% not Somalian. But your credibility on this page is already damaged by the obvious nationalism. I hope to see the truth come out but your vote in determining it will be weighed less. seefooddiet (talk) 20:57, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

By my nationalism? What do you mean by that. B.n1pr (talk) 10:41, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

I was clear before and don't need to repeat myself. The fact that you posted the exact link mentioned in this thread filled with obvious nationalists who disliek Ethiopian people (JazakAllah khayr sister. You are right. Ethiopian culture is so degenerate it does not even register as news for them) is really damning. Your credibility is done. Do not attempt to distance yourself from this, you will not succeed.

I will not reply to you anymore, this is not productive and you've proven you have basically nothing more to add to this conversation. seefooddiet (talk) 19:54, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

I am not even Somali, so i am outside of this nationalist conflict that you both are arguing with eachother.

I represented all the sources in line with how they are written and i did not remove much at all, only the twitter link which is self-publication.

And also ask on the talk page before making changes. I consulted this talk page before making edit changes and notified you GebreAraara (talk) 20:48, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

The Japanese article doesn't mention a police investigation finding him to be Ethiopian; it just says "he is said to be Ethiopian" ("　カリド容疑者はエチオピア系アフリカ人とされている。") Your previous edit also gave too much weight to the Japanese report; it made it seem more definite than it actually is. Also the first ref is being used incorrectly; in that ref it just says he is Somalian-American, with no other info about his ethnicity. Your edit also had a number of grammar and spelling issues. Could you explain what you dislike about my edits? seefooddiet (talk) 20:52, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

The Yahoo news article is citing a police reporting at the time that he was detained by the Japanese police and it says "The Suspect is said to be of Ethiopian descent" and the also cast skepticism about his other claims.

I did not include a ref link that said Somalian-American at all.

Also follow normal wikipedia protocol

all relevant point of view should be included. I included the claims he makes, included what other reporting's say. I also wrote it in a neutral language

In line with WP:YESPOV

I explained this to you before i made an edit.

I also do not comprehend your framing of sources as "Somalian News" and "Japanese News". These are all reliable general news sites. We don't for example phrase a BBC news article as "British News".

Also we cannot write "it's unclear what his background is" because no source as of yet have commented this.

Also accusations you make on the talk pages are not welcomed in my opinion.

As wikipedia editors we are meant to WP:DGF so i hope you do moving forward.

The reflinks are fine and you can make grammar fixes without making radical changes. GebreAraara (talk) 21:14, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

1. The Yahoo news article is not citing the police report at that sentence, it's just citing general knowledge. In that same paragraph it even repeats the claims about Somali claiming to be a child soldier.
2. Ok I was slightly wrong about this, but my overall point still stands. This is being used incorrect. You wrote Ismael claims to have been born to Ethiopian, Somali and Yemeni parents and gave ref #3: [2]. Ref #3 says Ninkan oo la sheegay inuu yahay Soomaali-Ameerikaan ayaa isku sheega in yaraantiisii uu askar ahaa, isla markaana uu yahay burcad-badeed sida ku xusan bartiisa Youtube-ka. -> The man, who is said to be Somali-American, a child soldier, and a pirate, according to his YouTube channel. Muuqaal kiis ayuu ku sheegay in aabihiis uu yahay Soomaali halka hooyadii ay tahay Itoobiyaan, "waxaan doonayaa in aan hal wax caddeeyo, aabahay waa Soomaali hooyadayna Itoobiyaan, hooyaday waa Oromo," ayuu yiri. -> "In a video, he said that his father is Somali and his mother is Ethiopian". Yemeni is not mentioned in this source.
3. You are misinterpreting what I wrote. This is likely a grammar issue; I suspect English is not your first language (which is ok). I did not paint one Japanese source as representing all of Japan, I just said "a Japanese source". This does not have the implication of delegitimizing the source. If you'd like, I could name the source in full, but it's not normally an important distinction.

You're also misinterpreting how good faith works on Wikipedia. I did initially engage in good faith. Once it became clear that others were not, and that the user I was replying to was from a forum with nationalist (and racist) intent, I stopped engaging in good faith. You're asking people on Wikipedia to have infinite patience, but that's not how the website works. seefooddiet (talk) 21:37, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

1. It's reporting on an ongoing case , it even literally qoutes the police throughout it like "Chief Cabinet Secretary Matsuno Hirokazu" 松野博一官房長官は9月22日の定例記者会見でカリド容疑者の逮捕について触れ、以下のように警鐘を鳴らした。 and other reported updates from them.

カリド容疑者はエチオピア系アフリカ人とされている。あくまでも自称だが、元少年兵で、ソマリアの海賊だったと主張。ネット上では「州立大学卒」「金融関係」「不動産経営」などの情報も乱れ飛んでいるが、真偽は定かではない。

They report about him being of Ethiopian descent but the rest are claims he making himself online about being a child soldier and somali pirate and they cast skepticism about it. And even say "self-proclaimed" before it and at the ends say "the truth of these claims are unclear"

So the person you were arguing with before is correct. Before it was written in a way that confirmed mere claims and self-proclamations.

Even though the source used does not do make such confirmations.

2. The article you quoted is inline with how i wrote it originally that he claims to have been born to Ethiopian and Somali parents. As well as his claims to be a child soldier and pirate, which is also mentioned with added skepticism in the Yahoo news source.

3. You cannot say "japanese source" because it's a Yahoo general news site. It's not about representing all of Japan, its general news site that reports on general news.

4. I haven't seen neither me or the other person mentioning anything about a forum or use it as a source.

So you are basically throwing around baseless accusations and speclations about peoples motives and it doesn't follow Assume Good Faith.

From what i can see he the original talk page poster shared that Yahoo news link with the hope that an editor would include it create a fair and balanced representation. GebreAraara (talk) 22:11, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

1. Considering there are rumors and quotes from the police interspersed in the report, it's not clear what the claim is coming from. I do not buy that there is certainty here. If we continue to disagree, may be best to reach out to third party arbitration.
2. You misunderstood my point. I'm saying him being Yemeni is not in that source.
3. You again misunderstood my point. I'm saying, to most native English speakers, there's nothing dismissive about saying "a japanese source" and that that term doesn't make it seem like it represents all of Japan. This is a minor issue; can address it to your satisfaction.
4. What? I never accused you of anything. My chain of reasoning here was that that specific Japanese source was discussed first on that Somalian forum, and then the Somalian forum members said "hey we should edit Wikipedia", then a post was made on here with that source. Thus, it's safe to assume that forum members are here. That forum is not being used as a source, I never said that.

Not baseless accusations.

If this disagreement continues, will reach out to WP:Third opinion to get more editors to comment on the situation. seefooddiet (talk) 22:17, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

1. They don't say it is a rumor at all in the source. It literally says "reports". There is a full point cut off between the actual reporting of his Ethiopian descent and when they mentioned the claims made by him, what is floating online and self-proclamations.

It's important to read the whole source in it's entirety and its context.

2. I removed the Yemeni part, my apologies not sure how that added to it in the first place. You are correct there

3. It could be possible that it's source/reporting that was widely shared and it might have ended up on that site and it's not entirely connected. But i am not sure myself because i can only speak for myself. At first i thought you was accusing me.

I agree with you we should not have any nationalist or racist leaning.

I think it looks good the way it is now. With a few corrections give or take. It represents all points of views and it's written in a neutral languages. GebreAraara (talk) 22:37, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

The Japanese source says "it is said that" right next to a rumor. You're inferring from the context of the overall article, but the article is already mixing information from the police and rumors. When it comes to a WP:BLP, you have to lean conservative about what you report. I'm not convinced that that is conclusively coming from the Japanese police investigation.

I'm going to issue the corrections if it's ok. We'll have to hash things out and meet in the middle. seefooddiet (talk) 22:43, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

How is it a rumor , when in the next it's claims he has made himself? The next sentence over it says "He claims to be a.."

The rest of the article ends with "said the reporter" and the reporter said before and after the paragraph.

So it's not mixing in rumors, it's journalism/reporting and comments/reports from the police.

Let me know what corrections you are going to make first, it's better one person does the editing to avoid an edit war and we make requests/suggestions here GebreAraara (talk) 22:58, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

Ok, I'm going to WP:RFC. I think other people need to weigh in on this. seefooddiet (talk) 23:09, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

I think it is better we resolve it quickly here. Instead of allowing it to drag on.

I think we agree on a few things here and make a few compromises. I'll edit back some stuff and down size some of what you believe is "undeweight"

Write out and let me know what more needs to be changed GebreAraara (talk) 23:16, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

We have already come to an impasse on how to interpret the Japanese-language article. I don't think we will resolve it anytime soon. I have also already provided my desired changes in the recent edit. I think you are weighting the Japanese article, even if we accepted it as a police investigation, too highly. It is more appropriate to say that he has given conflicting information about his ethnicity. I think reaching out to others will be useful; third perspectives are helpful here. seefooddiet (talk) 23:18, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

Yahoo News is a news aggregator. It is sharing an article from a Japanese newspaper called Daily Shincho. You can see the Daily Shincho logo on the article itself. The nationalist dispute over his ethnicity is relevant to the article; if you don't want it there it can go later in the biography. seefooddiet (talk) 23:17, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

I have added it back some changes you made. How does it look now?

I don't have a dispute over his ethnicity, whatever he may be i honestly don't think it matters.

It's not for us to cast judgments and make biased confirmations on what he may or may not be. I do however wish to see an inclusive article that reflects a balanced view of the information that's out there and known.

I originally meant for it to be a quick edit to include the 1 source i brought as an addition. GebreAraara (talk) 23:36, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

"reporting in connection with a Japanese police investigation" is WP:WEASEL. Neither of us know for sure if the ethnicity in that report came from the police investigation; attempting to associate the two because it's possible it was an investigation is WP:UNDUE. In a WP:BLP you have to be more conservative than that.

"Has previously confirmed" is also undue; "confirmed" is used for definite claims, but he has already made conflicting reports on his own.

How we should interpret that news article (the hiiraan one) is this: Somali has made multiple claims about his ethnicity. What that news article thinks about his ethnicity is not really relevant; the article is based on Somali's words at the core, and it is obviously nationalistically asserting that Somali is not Somalian. In short, all you should be getting from that article is that Somali also claimed he is full Ethiopian. seefooddiet (talk) 00:09, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

It's from an article reporting on a police investigation. That's all it says.

The Hiraan article says:

Despite his alias, Ismael is not of Somali descent; he previously confirmed that he is of Ethiopian heritage.

This is a direct quotation And i included it. and i changed it into "alleges" for neutrality sake.

It's not coming from a Somali claim either. its a direct statement made by the news publication. GebreAraara (talk) 00:26, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

We're continually miscommunicating I think due to language barrier.

I'm saying we have established that 1. it is not clear whether his ethnicity is directly from that police investigation 2. putting "reporting covering a Japanese police investigation" or similar may be undue weight on the validity of the claim, which may ultimately just be from Johnny again 3. this falls under WP:WEASEL.

The Hiraan article is getting its facts from Johnny himself. That's what I'm saying. It doesn't really matter what they think, especially if they have nationalistic language in the body right next to their analysis.

This is why we need a third party to comment. seefooddiet (talk) 00:49, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

Just to note, as I believe it's relevant to this discussion. The user GebreAraara has received a warning for vandalism of articles related to Ethiopia. I would proceed with scepticism about this users claims of objectivity, and to the intent of why they want to add these sources to the page. 82.152.43.32 (talk) 13:23, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

Just to clarify, i got a spam by a random account on my talk page, so i haven't recieved an actual vandalism warning. They saw a single edit i made where i forgot to include a ref and mistook it for vandal, which it wasn't. You can look through all my contribs to weigh in on it. GebreAraara (talk) 18:22, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

I have looked through your contributions. This is the revision which could be considered vandalism. This contains discriminatory language, and opinions presented as fact. It appears to have been added in bad faith.

As noted by seefooddiet. Wikipedia should not be governed by racists with an agenda to push. Please be wary that this user has a pattern and may not be acting in good faith. 82.152.43.32 (talk) 11:52, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

I think this is a discussion better suited for GebreAraara's talk page. I wouldn't say that edit is strictly vandalism, be careful of using that accusation per WP:TENDENTIOUS. It's just a poorly sourced and haphazardly worded edit. Let's keep this discussion focused on the main topic. seefooddiet (talk) 21:12, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

He is indeed not somali! B.n1pr (talk) 16:25, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

Your gleeful definite affirmation of what you want to be true isn't helping the appearance of what is happening here. Nationalism should not be a factor in this. seefooddiet (talk) 16:44, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

I’ve based my perspective on solid facts, and I believe they point to a different conclusion. Nationalism shouldn’t obscure the reality of the situation, and it’s important to look at the evidence objectively B.n1pr (talk) 17:55, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

The issue is that the facts aren't solid, even the other commenter has agreed with that. You're too eager to present the facts as solid only in one specific direction that happens to align with a nationalist narrative, even resorting to advocating for the use of unreliable social media sources to get that narrative in.

I'm not going to discuss this much further; I'm expressing skepticisms of your advocacy for others to see. seefooddiet (talk) 18:52, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

Here, you are contradicting yourself. On his Wikipedia page, it states that Ismail claimed to have been a Somali child soldier. You approved claims made by him or others on his page, even though you previously responded to me with,” I don’t think we should trust anything he says”. You really think he’s trustworthy?’ The source attached to this claim also expressed doubt about his being a child soldier B.n1pr (talk) 21:15, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

I'm not contradicting myself. The key thing you're missing is that the BBC, a reliable source, is acting as a middle-man. If another reliable sources comes out and says "Johnny Somali now claims he isn't Somalian", we can put it in the article. We just can't use like a direct Tiktok video or something as a source.

You're right that we do need to express skepticism of that claim in-line though. I'll add that. seefooddiet (talk) 21:34, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

3O Response: Procedurally declining a request for a third opinion, as there are clearly more than two editors involved in this dispute. Editors are welcome to pursue other forms of dispute resolution. DonIago (talk) 01:35, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

B.n1pr isn't party to the most recent dispute. I'll reach out to RfC instead. seefooddiet (talk) 01:41, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

I don't see how you can claim that they're not a party to the dispute when they commented in this thread as recently as yesterday. I also think it's a bit dubious to claim on someone else's behalf that they're not a party to a dispute in general, but even if they weren't, there would still be more than two editors who have commented in this thread. If there's a distinct dispute within this thread which only involves two editors, I would recommend that it be more clearly delineated. But, you're welcome to initiate an RfC. DonIago (talk) 04:50, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

Yes, there is a more distinct dispute regarding the specifics of wording a new addition to the article. B.n1pr has not engaged with the addition specifically. They could in future, but did not by the time I made the 3O request. Either way, this back and forth is not productive and I won't pursue it further. I'll weigh whether to move forward with an RfC. seefooddiet (talk) 04:56, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

Users on Somalispot forum attempting to make edits to this page

Users on Somali forums are attempting to mass edit this page. Is there any way to protect the article against users who deliberately trying to sabotage it? [3] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A01:4B00:D31A:2300:C51E:8421:5D21:FF61 (talk • contribs) 13:30 2 November 2024 (UTC)

So far it's just that one person; I responded to them above. We only apply protection if it's a more persistent issue. I'm monitoring this page so will apply for protection if it gets out of hand, but so far it's been fine seefooddiet (talk) 13:36, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

Johnny Somali is not Somali, and it’s important that accurate information is shared. Editors should be accountable for their reporting and avoid relying on unreliable sources or overlooking critical details. Editor Seefooddiet, I urge you to carefully reconsider the information being presented, as it could lead to serious consequences if not addressed. B.n1pr (talk) 18:32, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

[4] I already replied here, do not make the same ask again without presenting reliable sources. If you present reliable sources we can edit it. Otherwise I will not budge. seefooddiet (talk) 18:57, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

I missed this before from that forum thread, but highlighting it now. The anti-Ethiopian racism in that thread is disgusting. JazakAllah khayr sister. You are right. Ethiopian culture is so degenerate it does not even register as news for them. I could care less what ethnicity Johnny Somali is, but Wikipedia should not be governed by racists with an agenda to push. seefooddiet (talk) 19:58, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

List of attacks in South Korea

Multiple people have physically assaulted him recently in South Korea. He most recently had his eye swollen shut and mouth busted open, as well as being given a concussion.
It might be important to list how he's been attacked and critically injured. This page is going to be an obituary sooner than later. I've never seen someone so screwed before. 2600:100A:B050:4BEB:3870:48FF:FEF0:59DA (talk) 05:45, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

This article isn't named List of attacks on Johnny Somali. The article already states that he has been assaulted on multiple occasions while live streaming. I really don't think we need to extrapolate each occasion unless they are significant given the number of times it's happened. TarnishedPath^talk 06:18, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

I would support a section like this. NutmegCoffeeTea (she/her) (talk) 19:03, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

Korean parliament discussion

He has even drawn criticism in the South Korean parliament where during an October 30 session, several officials voiced concerns over his actions, concluding that his behavior would be monitored moving forward. [5]

Would appreciate more details on the discussion that happened. – robertsky (talk) 13:58, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

This article may require cleanup

While reading this article, I noticed words like "allegedly" which may indicate speculative content and potential original research. PersonAccount 🐉 (talk) 04:34, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

South Korea

A large majority of these citations have inaccurate dates and some things included in the article are completely fabricated

>On October 26, he was taken into police custody and disobeyed directions from police officers.

He was never taken into custody

>On November 2, 2024, he was barred from leaving the country while being under probe for his earlier incidents.

Inaccurate date for when travel ban came into effect

>On November 6, Ismael uploaded an apology video in which he filmed next to the Statue of Peace, of which viewers doubted his sincerity.

Ismael never uploaded any apology video, as his channels were terminated, there was one uploaded by other Youtubers.

>Ismael also faces additional charges for creating a deepfake video using artificial intelligence of him making out with the Korean content creator on Kick, Bongbong. British media outlet The Standard claimed that as a result of his other controversial actions such as the displaying the Japanese war-time flag of the Rising Sun Flag, playing North Korean pop music, and repeatedly telling other Koreans to speak English to him, he may be further investigated for hindering business operations and suspected drug use. Legal experts claimed that Ismael may also be charged with disseminating North Korean propaganda, and could face up to seven years in prison under South Korea's National Security Act.

This entire section is speculative, as of 12/1/2024 there is a single charge for obstruction.

>On November 19, Ismael was on a subway train in Seoul where during his live stream viewers could donate sums of cash in order to have text read aloud from his speaker using a text-to-speech program. Ismael's program went off and repeatedly said the phrase "I have a bomb" in the Korean language, which potentially came into violation of South Korea's anti-terrorism laws.

Inaccurate date, all of his channels were terminated for over 20 days at this point and he hasn't been streaming, also speculative since it says "potentially"

>On November 29, Dalgeun Yu, a former South Korean Navy SEAL and South Korean YouTuber, assaulted and knocked out Ismael after a confrontation inside an elevator and in response to Ismael's actions towards the Statue of Peace. Ismael was live streaming as Yu was recording Ismael, Yu was speaking Korean to Ismael as Ismael mocked him before punching Ismael in the head as he walked out of the building. Yu was immediately arrested by South Korean police as he posted the video of him assaulting Ismael online. Yu stated in defense of his actions "I could not stand by while someone insulted the victims of history and our nation," and that he did it to "defend national dignity".

Inaccurate date and complete fabrication. He was assaulted, but neither party was livestreaming, as Somalis channel has been terminated for a period of time already and the other person. There was also no mocking involved. The cited article mentions none of this. Odigasomali (talk) 08:44, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

I share many of these concerns. I had smelled these issues but didn't bother going through the sources myself. Honestly because this is a BLP, if people aren't willing to immediately fix the writing the appropriate thing to do is to delete much of it. It's better to say less than more if there's a risk of us significantly spreading falsehoods seefooddiet (talk) 14:04, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

I unfortunately lack permissions to edit it properly, but I believe the only relevant information here should pertain to his singular charge and travel ban because of it, most everything else in the South Korea section is speculative, fabricated or inaccurate Odigasomali (talk) 20:03, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

I try to not spend that much time on Somali and this is a big project. If nobody else wants to take this up, I can try to get around to it eventually, but I don't want to. For now I tagged the section as unreliable.

What needs to happen is all statements need to be tightly verified to the sources. seefooddiet (talk) 20:08, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

Hopefully someone can remove much of it. In regards to [56] it cites a tweet, the article contains no reason as to why they were in the police car. The full context is they were given a ride to the station to file a report against another party, no arrests were involved. But that is original research.

For the additional charges [61], they cite dexerto as a source who Dexerto uses a Youtuber as their source in the article. The Youtuber in question is not a Korean lawyer, or lawyer practicing in Korea. Its purely speculative and original research. [62] also cites the same Youtuber, who is a not a practicing lawyer in Korea. [14] [58] When it comes to drug use and any assault charges, Johnny himself has came out and said the drug charge were dropped and there was no assault case in the first place.

[63] again cites Dexerto, who uses a tweet and non practicing lawyer as a source of information, the article even used the word 'alleged' and that there is no formal accusation against Johnny. Also claiming it was livestreamed in November, despite his accounts being terminated in October.

[64] [65] [66] [67] This section is fabricated. The attacker was sent to prosecutors November 29th and the articles do not mention the original incident date despite that being claimed here. The original incident occurred November 1st and was not livestreamed by either party. The original attack can be cited but the Korean articles refer to him anonymously. I believe the attackers reasoning is irrelevant to the article. Odigasomali (talk) 01:35, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

You could post a request or two for people to look at this article. You could post on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Internet culture, Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography, or at the Wikipedia:Teahouse. I suspect WikiProject Korea won't be very interested (small community, this kind of topic isn't in most people's primary interests). seefooddiet (talk) 03:09, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

Alternatively you could rewrite the section and put your rewrite on this talk page with an WP:edit request. Just would need to make the edit request as neat as possible; ideally the approver should be able to copy+paste and your edit to the article. seefooddiet (talk) 03:16, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

On December 3, the trial date for Ismael was revealed to be on December 20 though new evidence is being brought to the South Korean police which may add up to more charges. He is currently being charged for behavioral misconduct and overall offensive acts.

[70] [71] citations says nothing about new charges, and still are only using a Youtuber as a source of information. I would like Korean sources for the majority of this section. @RowanJ LP: Gomadgomad (talk) 17:55, 5 December 2024 (UTC)

The Dexerto citation states that there MAY be new charges added with the new evidence presented, it states that in the article as well, it never stated that there WERE new charges. RowanJ LP (talk) 17:57, 5 December 2024 (UTC)

It already says he may face other charges in almost every article in this section, it doesn't need to be repeated a thousand times. The seal story is also properly cited as happening on 31/10 not 29/11 on the talk page Gomadgomad (talk) 18:02, 5 December 2024 (UTC)

@RowanJ LP Dexerto is also inappropriate to use on WP:BLP, see this link: WP:DEXERTO seefooddiet (talk) 19:37, 5 December 2024 (UTC)

His latest edit "He is currently being charged for behavioral misconduct and overall offensive acts. [72]" is also blatantly false, he is currently indicted for obstruction of business which has already been mentioned earlier in the topic. The articles used for these citations all use dexerto as their source, which isn't reliable. Gomadgomad (talk) 23:25, 5 December 2024 (UTC)

I think it's safe to delete that kind of content. Multiple strikes against it on a BLP. If nobody does it soon I will. seefooddiet (talk) 01:05, 6 December 2024 (UTC)

Seal Story

The article mentiones that the subject was attacked by a Seal end of November. The following video shows that this incident happened already a month ago. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qA22wH5JTQE Hellokevinvo (talk) 08:31, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

That video is useless on Wikipedia, see WP:YOUTUBE. Marcus Markup (talk) 09:13, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

I don't think that's quite accurate; Korea Now is a publication of Yonhap News Agency, considered a reliable source by WP:KO/RS.

However, a written source would be preferrable to that video. I'm sure some exist, if not in English then in Korean. seefooddiet (talk) 14:13, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

https://www.dailian.co.kr/news/view/1423773/ Korean source, doesn't mention attacker by name. Source of video is the Korean guys instagram, and further proof none of them were livestreaming so that section can be removed Gomadgomad (talk) 21:01, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

Yeah that source confirms that it happened on October 31. The source doesn't mention insta; I assume you mean you know separately that the video is from instagram. You'd need to provide a source for that claim. seefooddiet (talk) 21:10, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

Instagram can't be used as a source can it? Because it was uploaded on his personal page the minute it happened. Neither party was streaming, and that can be fact checked by watching the video. Unfortunately there are no articles that cite his instagram as the source of the video Gomadgomad (talk) 21:19, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

No, it can't, per WP:USERGENERATED. Extrapolating further information from just the video is WP:ORIGINALRESEARCH as well. On Wikipedia most of what we can do is just report what sources are saying; applying extra reasoning steps based on evidence is discouraged. seefooddiet (talk) 22:08, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 6 December 2024

Please edit the section to edit below Removed all the dexerto/sportskeeda, along with any other source that cites them in the articles, along with speculative or alleged content. I corrected the date of the 10/31 attack with a korean source, as well as added a Korean source for the parliamentary discussion. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gomadgomad (talk • contribs) 03:17, 6 December 2024 (UTC)

While visiting South Korea, Ismael kissed and performed lap dances on the Statue of Peace, a memorial commemorating comfort women, though he later apologized for his actions, claiming ignorance of the statue's significance.He also loudly played obscene noises on the subway, such as speeches by Kim Jong Un, and was ejected from a bus after loudly playing North Korean music.

On October 17, Ismael reportedly caused a disturbance at a convenience store, where he was confronted by a convenience store worker who told him not to drink alcohol inside and made sexist comments. He was reported to the police the same day.

Members of the Korean Parliament discussed his actions during a parliamentary session on October 30, concluding that he would be monitored more closely.

On October 31st, 2024, Ismael was assaulted in South Korea after a confrontation in a public space. The altercation occurred following his controversial actions

On November 11th, 2024, Ismael was indicted by the Seoul Southern District Prosecutors' Office on charges of "obstruction of business" over the convenience store incident. A travel ban prevents him from leaving South Korea.

As of December 3rd, 2024, Ismael’s trial date is set for December 20, with additional charges being considered. Gomadgomad (talk) 03:04, 6 December 2024 (UTC)

Could you be more specific about what we're supposed to replace? Some of that section is sourced to reliable sources. seefooddiet (talk) 03:46, 6 December 2024 (UTC)

The parliament citation, and events of 31st, 11th and December 3rd should be 100% replaced to reflect accuracy in my opinion.

What section do you believe is reliable? I removed the dexerto and sportskeeda sources, but some of the other ones like [64] petapixel cite dexerto as their source in their article, [15] because its previously mentioned in [53][54] and [65] because the 'legal experts' cited in the article is a Youtuber who doesn't practice law in Korea. Gomadgomad (talk) 04:36, 6 December 2024 (UTC)

I didn't quite follow your suggestions, but I did prune the section. There are a couple of grammar/spelling/style issues in your proposed edit, and there were a number of sources that you were suggesting replacing that are unambiguously reliable (see WP:KO/RS), with information that is probably true. I mostly did deletion work; I could add some information you proposed (nov 11, oct 31), but honestly it doesn't bother me. We don't really need a play-by-play of Somali's actions; at some point it becomes unencyclopedic. Most of this article relies on poor sourcing. If someone else with more editing experience wants to add these bits later they can, but I'm still loathe to spend time on Somali. seefooddiet (talk) 03:01, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

Appreciated. Thats what I was concerned about, the article turning into a play by play with unreliable updates and speculative content of an ongoing situation. Easier to just wait for the results of the court hearing Gomadgomad (talk) 05:57, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

Legal Mindset videos? + other info

I was originally going to write this post as a request to add some things, but I guess it's turned into more of an informal information dump. There are a lot of things I've heard about from Legal Mindset (a lawyer and YouTuber), primary sources (aka livestreams) from Johnny Somali himself, among other things. However, I've forgotten the exact videos and I don't want to forget any of this. Anyway, Legal Mindset has been making videos about Johnny, and mentioned a lot of things that he did in South Korea. Alongside the ramyeon incident, he also committed obstruction of business in Lotte World, where he blared text-to-speech audio that made sexual threats against minors (in Korean). Legal Mindset also mentioned that Johnny's Discord server had child pornography on it. Johnny tried to defend himself, stating that he "can't control his chat". I forgot the exact video where he said this, sorry...

Also, when Johnny got ready to assault the statue, he said "Japan hates this thing", hinting that he was aware of the statue's cultural significance. This is one of the reasons why people didn't take too kindly to his apology. Johnny also got into a fight with a woman near ABC Pizza. Since the woman wore glasses, that counts as attempted murder. He's also made a deepfake video of him kissing a South Korean streamer, Bongbong, as well as a video of the comfort woman statue as a stripper.

My main question is: should I add the Legal Mindset videos as sources? I'm not going to say that Johnny's definitively charged with anything, but that his actions imply that he could be charged with something. Some of the info might be a bit too new to put in... - OpalYosutebito (talk) 02:45, 9 December 2024 (UTC) OpalYosutebito (talk) 02:45, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

No you shouldn't link youtube, sportskeeda, or dexerto, and anything that is original research or speculatory

Also you shouldn't believe everything he claims, considering he doesn't practice law in Korea and any information regarding the case is given to him through third parties. Just going off your post alone, there were no "sexual threats" made in LW, the donation text is there for you to read. The discord thing is speculatory, even the person he interviewed claimed he didn't know. A verbal spat in the street isn't 'attempted murder'. You also can't claim he created the deepfake video when all he did was show one on his broadcast. Gomadgomad (talk) 04:57, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

Okay. Thanks for the help and clarification! I'll keep this in mind. - OpalYosutebito (talk) 05:00, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

Agree with Gomadgomad's comment. seefooddiet (talk) 06:51, 9 December 2024 (UTC)