Talk:John Stonehouse/Archive 1

Archive 1

Was Stonehouse a Czech spy?

I have removed the tagline to Stonehouse being 'known to be a spy. Authors such as David leigh in the Wilson plot and other argument argue against the case he was actually a spy. Could we have some reasoned debate before such allegation is made? I know this is wikipedia and opinion will get mixed with fact, but such allegations are hurtful. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Leelumm (talk • contribs) 15:52, 13 December 2011 (UTC)

The Prime Minister and MI5 decided he was a spy for Czechoslovakia. see http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2010/dec/30/margaret-thatcher-spying-john-stonehouse MI5's official history says: "the only British politician (so far as is known) to have acted as a foreign agent while holding ministerial office: John Stonehouse" Christopher Andrew (2009). Defend the Realm: The Authorized History of MI5. Knopf Doubleday. p. 707-8. Other RS agree, such as Robert Dover; Michael S. Goodman (2009). Spinning Intelligence: Why Intelligence Needs the Media, Why the Media Needs Intelligence. Columbia University Press. p. 163. and Darren G. Lilleker (2004). Against the Cold War: The History and Political Traditions of Pro-Sovietism in the British Labour Party, 1945-1989. I.B.Tauris. p. 7. Is there some reliable source that has contrary evidence? Rjensen (talk) 02:43, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

Questions

What books did he publish? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.23.122.160 (talk) 20:26, 18 March 2005 (UTC)

The seven books are mentioned in the article now. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 31.54.201.140 (talk) 08:55, 16 April 2018 (UTC)

Died on live TV?

Is this really true? I can't find any other website that says this. Deus Ex 09:27, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Removed. Mark¹ 05:42, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

No it is not true. but is has been alleged that he was a KGB agenet. Any evidence on that?

He abruptly fell unconscious in a chair before a studio audience during a section of a TV discussion programme about people who disappeared. I was in that audience. Earlier, responding indirectly to a police inspector who had said that people who disappear are often acting selfishly, he attempted a psychological self-justification. I think this was a live broadcast, but from memory I cannot be certain that it was not merely being recorded. As I recall he remained seriously ill and died some days later - AG, Stockport, UK.

I recall his death being in the news. His collapse was virtually attributed (from conversational hearsay, but do not recall it being stated in press reports) to the "aggressive questioning" of the presenter, Sue Jay.Cloptonson (talk) 21:53, 28 August 2015 (UTC)

More than one pseudonym

Stonehouse actually used two other names, not only that of Markham.

Yes - He was "Joseph Arthur Markham" and "Donald Clive Mildoon". Both apparently deceased constituents. David | Talk 11:29, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Date of birth

The date is given in the article on Stonehouse as 1925 and 1926.

I've just corrected the category so that it correctly agrees with the article's first line - he was born in 1925. The death index, which I have linked to, is compiled from death certificates; it states his date of birth. I have also added his place of death, but the article is still missing his place of birth. F W Nietzsche (talk) 15:26, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Trivia

I have removed the line "The successful BBC comedy series The Fall and Rise of Reginald Perrin was based on the incident." because it's not true. The book was written before the incident took place (though it was published shortly afterwards). Parallel evolution, rather than inspiration. Aquarion 11:45, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Number of children

The First paragraph states he had three children with Barbara Smith and yet in the next section he apparently now only has two. Ahh... he had a child with his second wife Shelia Buckley. So, John Stonehouse had TWO children with his first wife, one with his second, bringing the total to three.

No. I knew the Stonehouse family in the late '60s. He then had two daughters, Jane and Julia, and a son, Matthew. Those three were all with his wife Barbara. The fake death, etc., all happened after I left London, so I don't know much about them, nor about his fourth child. However, I recall that the "drowning" was not thought to be suicide. He was thought to have died accidentally while swimming, maybe by drowning, or maybe from a shark attack. DOwenWilliams (talk) 05:37, 18 December 2011 (UTC)

Year of first marriage?

This is given as 1948 and also as 1951. 86.139.88.137 (talk) 17:29, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

Teller

It was actually the cashier's superiors who informed the Police, if I remember right. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.154.28.189 (talk) 14:00, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

Bangladesh

I recall that Stonehouse was involved with setting up the country of Bangladesh, after its war of independence from Pakistan. He used his banking contacts to arrange financing, which allowed the new country to get established. A few years later, after his fake drowning, it was alleged that he had skimmed off a lot of money that was intended for Bangladesh and used it to set himself up in Australia. Maybe, somewhere, there is evidence to prove or disprove this. DOwenWilliams (talk) 05:46, 18 December 2011 (UTC)

Widow?

Any updates on Sheila Buckley (Stonehouse) and their son? Valetude (talk) 12:14, 30 June 2013 (UTC)

Valetude has just volunteered to do some work. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 31.54.201.140 (talk) 15:02, 15 April 2018 (UTC)

WikiProject Czech Republic

Should this article really be in the "Czech Republic" project? Czechoslovakia was a single country until after Stonehouse's death. The Czech Republic, as a separate country, did not exist during his lifetime. If this article is to be associated with the Czech Republic, it should be equally associated with the present-day Republic of Slovakia. DOwenWilliams (talk) 02:12, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

It does look a bit odd, but there is no 'WikiProject Czechoslovakia'. The scope of WikiProject Czech Republic includes all articles about the Czech peoples and historical Czech lands, including the former Czechoslovakia. Robofish (talk) 00:27, 13 October 2013 (UTC)

Was He The Source For The Great Train Robbery?

In August 1963, did John Stonehouse have access the secret schedules of when valuable consignments were being transported by train? --New Thought (talk) 14:21, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

As an opposition MP? Seems unlikely.Lozleader (talk) 17:07, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

OK - thanks for that helpful information. --New Thought (talk) 20:20, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

Television

An Australian policeman, given the task of watching Stonehouse, said that Stonehouse watched television with his hat pulled down over his ears and in dark glasses. This made the policeman suspicious. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 31.54.201.140 (talk) 13:19, 15 April 2018 (UTC)

Loan

The Crown Agents made a loan of £350,000 to Stonehouse. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 31.54.201.140 (talk) 13:42, 15 April 2018 (UTC)

An earlier loan of £100,000 has been mentioned. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 31.54.201.140 (talk) 14:46, 15 April 2018 (UTC)

Time

It became apparent at the trial in the 1970's that Stonehouse had spent months rehearsing his new identity. This was not new in 2005. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 31.54.201.140 (talk) 09:18, 16 April 2018 (UTC)

Use of the word 'Mistress'?

I am not sure that this archaic word is really in use any more. 'Lover' maybe ? Excalibur (talk) 20:46, 19 July 2015 (UTC) It;s still in common use in the UK in 2017. Cj1340

I've heard it used several times this year. It's more precise than lover. Jim Michael (talk) 13:16, 17 December 2018 (UTC)

"Although unhappy with the situation, the Labour Party did not expel him."

The above passage was quoted, (more or less), with attribution to "Wiki", by MP Eddie Hughes in the House of Commons, beginning at 3:19 of this video.--Wehwalt (talk) 11:26, 4 January 2020 (UTC)

Personal life section - external link removed

I've reverted an edit which included a link to an external website because it's a self-published source WP:SELFPUB, and appears to be complaints against other published sources which are critical of John Stonehouse. IndigoBeach (talk) 19:24, 1 December 2022 (UTC)

Suspended sentence

Sheila got a suspended sentence of two years in prison. 2A00:23C7:99A5:9E01:F8BC:DF1C:FEA9:76A0 (talk) 13:46, 3 October 2023 (UTC)

Benn

Tony Benn is said to have been Prime Minister in 1967. 81.152.184.117 (talk) 15:37, 8 June 2024 (UTC)

User:HughesJohn in 2014 seems to be responsible.

Thanks IP, now sorted. HughesJohn wasn't the problem: Stonehouse was a junior minister whose senior minister was Benn. It was whoever later added the PM label before Benn's name that caused the problem. - SchroCat (talk) 16:06, 8 June 2024 (UTC)

It was SebastianJFromTheBurg who added the incorrect title in this edit from a few days ago. SJFTB, please be careful: we have pages for both Benn and lists of who has been the UK PM where this sort of basic piece of information can be checked. - SchroCat (talk) 16:34, 8 June 2024 (UTC)

I stupidly overlooked the efforts of SebastianJFromTheBurg.

I am the original poster.— Preceding unsigned comment added by A34hkl65 (talk • contribs) 11:02, 11 June 2024 (UTC)