Talk:James Thomas, 1st Viscount Cilcennin

Time in Opposition 1945-51

Worth mentioning that during this time he held a senior party position, I forget what exactly, in which he selected many if not all prospective new parliamentary candidates, thus preparing the way for the intake at the end of the Attlee government. He was reckoned a very good judge of people, and chose a number of people of high calibre, such as Macleod and Maudling. Seadowns (talk) 15:49, 9 February 2020 (UTC)–

Which Cilcennin?

It seems likely that Lord Cilcennin took his title from the village of Cilcennin in Ceredigion (formerly Cardiganshire), as his father was from Llandeilo. Can we find a reliable source to confirm this? is there another Cilcennin? Verbcatcher (talk) 16:49, 19 July 2022 (UTC)

The ODNB source says "taking his title from the little river which runs through his family property in Carmarthenshire". This may be referring to the Afon Cennen, but I can't find a reference to it being known by this name. There is a Cilcennen Farm in Rhosmaen near Llandeilo, but that has an 'e' at the end, not an 'i'. The village of Cilcennin is 30 miles away in the next county. Maybe there was a mix-up, or he was told that he couldn't take his title from the name of a river. Verbcatcher (talk) 00:54, 20 July 2022 (UTC)

Suez crisis

Lord Cilcennin would have been closely involved in the Suez Crisis of 1956, when he was First Lord of the Admiralty, and it might have led to his resignation that year. Possible sources are (paywalled, I have only seen the abstracts):

• Pearson, Jonathan (2003). "Negotiation: 4 August–9 September". Sir Anthony Eden and the Suez Crisis: 42–66. doi:10.1057/9780230512597_3.
• Smith, Adrian (January 2013). "Resignation of a First Sea Lord: Mountbatten and the 1956 Suez Crisis: Resignation of a First Sea Lord". History. 98 (329): 105–134. doi:10.1111/j.1468-229X.2012.00576.x.

Please expand the article to cover this, if you have access to reliable sources. Verbcatcher (talk) 19:49, 19 July 2022 (UTC)

Verbcatcher, I peeked in this book, and it doesn't say anything about Suez, he resigned to go on a royal world tour. The Suez crisis was two months after he resigned, in November.לילך5 (talk) 20:01, 19 July 2022 (UTC)

Thank you, I wasn't expecting a quick response about what a thought was a long-forgotten politician. It is a pity that Cilcennen's letter isn't in the Google scan - do you have the printed book? He was involved in a London conference in the run-up the the crisis.[1] It is unusual for a senior government minister to resign without a strong reason; perhaps he foresaw that the Suez issue was not going to end well for the British Government. However, he may have felt unable to decline a royal invitation. It would be good the mention the royal tour, but the book you have linked appears to be self-published, so is probably not a reliable source for Wikipedia. Verbcatcher (talk) 20:21, 19 July 2022 (UTC)

It seems that Cilcennen had severe arthritis, so he may have resigned due to ill-health. (Unusable source in the Daily Mail.[2], also in a book, but the Google extracts are probably inadequate to cite.[3].) Verbcatcher (talk) 23:36, 19 July 2022 (UTC)

He did less than four years later, it is possible. You can look through his archives they have many of his letters there if you want them.לילך5 (talk) 03:32, 20 July 2022 (UTC)

As far as I can see these letters are not available online, and you have the visit the Carmarthenshire Archives in Wales to see the physical letters. Moreover, personal letters are a primary source, and should not normally be used as references, see WP:PRIMARY. Verbcatcher (talk) 19:24, 20 July 2022 (UTC)