Talk:Indra

Article Has A Highly Western POV

This article is a highly western point of view of looking at things and doesn't do justice to the 'Vedic' deity from a 'Vedic' standpoint... This must be re-written from 'Vedic' point of view. Rig Veda doesn't talk about other 'Indo-European' deities or for that matter, other 'Indo-European' deities do not refer to RV unless someone can prove this connection between these deities from different cultures, one must treat these as independent of each other... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 73.192.204.195 (talk) 04:08, 11 June 2018 (UTC)

Untitled

this article needs some cleanup, i.e. the various sources must be cleanly separated and specified. dab (ᛏ) 12:12, 3 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Feminine Aspect? Avatar? Incarnation?

I'm a bit confused by this article because I was pretty sure I'd seen references to Indra as a feminine deity. I've also met women (of east Indian heritage) who were named "Indra."

Is there some female aspect, avatar, incarnation or other association to Indra? JimD (talk) 00:52, 12 March 2010 (UTC)

Women are sometimes named Indra. But the only significant female aspect of Indra is by clueless westerners referencing Indra in Hollywood movies. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 27.34.27.88 (talk) 01:07, 20 July 2015 (UTC)

@JimD: There's a goddess named Indrani, who is the personification of Indra's power. .245CMR.•^👥📜 07:23, 22 March 2021 (UTC)

Anon comment

Some anonymous writer just put this on the page:

(sorry but Surya- the Sun GOD is the sun of Lord Brahma, and Not Indra. Surya )or Surya Dev) is also the Father of Lord Yama ( the greatest Judge and the Lord of Narka- hell according to the christian faith)

I'm not familiar with the subject, so I don't know if this is true or not.--Shanel 21:29, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

It's true that Surya is the sun god per-se in Vedic belief. But there's nothing in the article that claims that Indra is the sun god. There's a bit about Indra being derived from a solar deity, but that doesn't contradict Surya being the primary sun god. It's also true that Indra is the son of Dyeus Pita, and that Indra achieved his rank by slaying his father. The bit about Yama sounds a little strange to me; according to Vedic legends, Yama was not a god initially, but rather was the first mortal to die. Yama did rule over the underworld (being elevated to divine status following his death), but didn't really act as much of a judge; your obedience to rta determined whether you went to dwell among the gods or in hell, and Yama just escorted you to one place or the other. Overall, I'm not real sure what the anon poster was trying to get across with his comment. --Clay Collier 22:00, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

There exists no mantra that says Indra killed his father Dyaus Pita. Brahmaveer Rigvedi (talk) 05:25, 25 January 2020 (UTC)

Indo-Aryan info is messy

Don't know where to start, but I'll keep this short. So many people seem to throw around the word "Zoroastrian" and have little to no idea about Zoroastrianism ipso facto. I'm glad its even here, but not as a novelty side note... I'd like someone to give their reasons behind the information:

"The battle between Indra and Vritra is depicted in ancient Iranian religions such as Zoroastrianism. Some think that the Indo-Aryans settled not only India but also Iran."

Some think??! Umm, Iran=Aryan - I'm deleting that. As to the battle, give me the proper Zoroastrian names and whether we're talking about the Pre-Zarathushtra Iranian religion, Zoroastrianism proper (as in the Aban Yasht, etc.), or the Shahnameh. I'm going from my head right now, but I believe we're talking about the Thraetona vs. Azhi Dahaka story here, and Indra might better be compared to Tishtrya in this context. Otherwise it should be deleted altogether or re-written. Oh yeah, I added the Devanagari while I was here ;-) Khirad^talk 22:20, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

Remove Thor and Perun from the introduction

The references to Thor and Perun do not belong to the first few lines of the introduction to the article. They should be moved to a new section named "Possible European counterparts"

Zeus?

I removed

He is a rough equivalent to Zeus in Greek Mythology, or Jupiter in Roman

Zeus is the leader of the gods whereas Indra is just one of many, so I don't think there is much equivalency here. AxelBoldt 19:27, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

In earlier times, Indra was regarded as chief of the Gods, and he is exalted above the others many times in the Rg-Veda.

For example, see [1] --Grammatical error 19:46, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

There are enough similarities to note.

Zues - Mortal, born from parents. We know the Titans are mortal because they die. Zues kill his father Kronos.

Indra - Mortal, we know they die, like when Indra died, or killed him self because he commeted brahmanside. He reincarnated but he still died.

Zues - Thunderbolt Indra - Thunderbolt

Zues - Rules three systems or worlds Indra - Rules three systems or worlds

Zues - KIlls a creature Typhoon who is known as a dragon Indra - Kills Vritra who is also known as a dragon, a red dragon to be exact.

Zues - Does not end up killing Echidna the mother of Thphoon Indra - Does not kill the mother of Vritra

Zues - Gives up his thron and Dionises takes over Indra - Gives up his throne and Nahusha takes over

Zues - Retakes his throne Indra - Retakes his throne

These are all that I can think of off the top of my head.

Also I think it should be stated in the article that Indra is a mortal, he does die, so he is not rightfully a god. Also he lives on a planet and has his own city there called the city of Indra. I can show refernces for this in Srimad Bhaghavatam, and I believe in Mahabharata.

The Bhagavatam is not the greatest authority on Indra - it greatly degrades his status and is almost insulting. Also, he does not give up his throne willingly whereas Zeus does, and the Rig-Veda is not completely clear on whether or not he killed Danu - he certainly struck her with his thunderbolt, making her fall next to Vritra's body. --Grammatical error 15:07, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Mahabharata book 5 section X - http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m05/m05010.htm

"Now when the mighty Vritra, terrible to the gods, was killed, Indra became overpowered by falsehood, and he became exceedingly sad; and he was also overpowered by the sin of Brahmanicide

p. 19

on account of having killed the three-headed son of Twashtri. And he betook himself to the confines of the worlds, and became bereft of his senses and consciousness. And overpowered by his own sins, he could not be recognised. And he lay concealed in water, just like a writhing snake. And when the lord of celestials, oppressed with the dread of Brahmanicide, had vanished from sight, the earth looked as if a havoc had passed over it."

I would say according to Mahabharata which is an authoritative work in Hinduism, Indra indeed gave up his throne willingly.

Sakra

The entry about the rare mention of Indra in Buddhist scriptures is a howler. Indra and Sakra are used interchanagably and in equal measure in the Hindu scriptures and epics. Indra is just a standard way of referring to the same deity in modern texts. Whilst Bramha and Indra have a subordinate position to the Buddha, they are nevertheless extremely important celestial beings.

"fair" Indra

I wish people would at least consult the actual text before arguing stuff like that, is this too much to ask? If you want to argue a "fair-skinned Indra" from the Rigveda, the best you'll get is a reference to a "yellow beard" (which is yellow for all his Soma drinking at that). The Rigveda does say that "Indra hates black skin", which would suggest he is himself not "black", but he is nowhere described as "fair-skinned" in positive terms (it is true that krsna tvac is primarily a metaphor for "evil", but it would be a singularly ineptly chosen metaphor if you would suggest that it is at the same time in its literal sense a description of Indra's physique). The cited passages are bogus, an artifact of Griffith's fair. dab (𒁳) 13:37, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Indra is described as 'golden' with a 'flame beard' or 'yellow beard' and 'fire hair', beacuse he is a solar God. Some translations of 'yellow' are actually supposed to be 'flame' or 'fire'. I will try to get the exact derivative of the word. However it is fairly obvious that Indra is 'Golden' becasue he is a solar God, as is his 'Golden' solar god equivalent in Egypt etc.

KnowledgeAndVision (talk) 15:37, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

look, it is pointless to cite English colour adjectives. This is just an artefact of translation. "hari" can be all of golden, brown or yellow, and each may be chosen by a translator. Just cite the original adjective. --dab (𒁳) 15:36, 23 July 2010 (UTC)

Taishakuten

"Taishakuten"（帝釈天） is specifically a Japanese name for Indra as part of the Buddhist pantheon; Chinese and Korean Buddhists either do not use the same name or else pronounce it very differently. I think it is inaccurate to present the Japanese name, "Taishakuten," as if it were a general "East Asian Buddhist" name for Indra.

---

I added the pronunciation "Taishakuten" because I felt *something* was better for non Japanese/Korean/Chinese speakers than raw Hanzi/Hanja/Kanji. If I knew the Mandarin and Korean equivalent names I would add them, but I don't. If you do, however, be my guest to add them (it can't hurt).

Besides, it's not presenting Taishakuten as a 'general "East Asian Buddhist" name' for Indra, it's very specifically labeled as Japanese.128.205.116.51 (talk) 14:52, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Deletions

As explained here the following was deleted in the article by Hornplease (talk · contribs) but no reason was put on the talkpage.

http://en.wiki.x.io/w/index.php?title=Indra&diff=prev&oldid=126353688 *Indra and Shiva - By Koenraad Elst

http://en.wiki.x.io/w/index.php?title=Indra&diff=prev&oldid=126353590

Interpraetatio

Zeus and Indra are NOT mortals as stated above! ... However the similarities are very clear, no doubts about it. Some confusion may arise 'cos in the Greco-Roman World Zeus/Iovis and Ares/Mars are split in two different Deities but in the majority of other Indo-European cultures Zeus-Mars is in fact a single God, a clear example of that is Thor (and surely Indra...) = Zeus-Mars or in other terms the Thunder God is not separate from the War God, the Classical World is an exception in this case, and however obviously the character of Zeus in the classical myths has his particularities, but the similarities are more than the differences, furthermore Zeus shows the same wrathy behavior, the other side of the coin of this divine character is the joviality, kindness, joy etc. as it's stated for Indra in the Rig Veda. But comparisons can go on... also with other Gods. Many ancients (See for example Salustius' De Diis et Mundo) knew that Zeus and Dionysos (literally the "Zeus of Nysa", some scholars have connected the term Nysa with Joy) are only very slightly different faces of the same God, Zeus and Dionysos are the same God. Indra strongly resembles also many traits of Dionysos, the playful and warrior nature at the same time, the patronate over the mistic drinks, the court of Apsaras/Menads/Bacchants etc. It's therefore clear that also Indra, Rudra and Shiva (Shiva is an epitet of Indra in the Rig-Veda) are the same God split into 3... It's self-evident when you analyse this divine figures, and also made comparison with their traits and with the same figures of Indo-European World.

About the fact that the Brahmans had wanted to discredit the figure of Indra it's quite obvious... Indra was the patron, the protector of the Kshatryas... so many late tales after the vedic period against Indra are all empieties... it's the typical empious brahmanic behaviour to feel superior even of the Gods...

--Antioco79 (talk) 01:49, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

14 Indra? Inherited Position?

No where in Rig Veda is stated that Indra is a title that can be inherited. Rig Veda clearly states the birth of Indra,his deeds and his rule.Please state that this concept was only introduce later in the Puranas, and is not mention at all in Rig Veda .One can assume this done to further reduce the important of Indra. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.27.115.118 (talk) 04:20, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

/* "Indradhanush", the bow of Indra: Rainbow */

The Sanskrit is indradhanus इन्द्रधनुस् - not indradhanush. Not sure about Hindi. 86.26.1.194 (talk) 08:08, 26 June 2010 (UTC)

Thai name

For the last time, Indra's name in Thai is Phra Intra. Just as in other Thai words like chitralada or the name Shinawatra, the "tra" is not pronounced but it should be included in a proper transliteration.Morinae (talk) 11:41, 1 February 2011 (UTC)

All I can say to this is, I know that the word metre in thailand is pronounced as Meet by a few people I've met, so there could be some truth in your statement. Either way we need to look at verifiable written sources for the statement. Why dont you look for some and modify the statements by adding relavant citations. -Ambar wiki (talk) 02:32, 13 July 2012 (UTC)

Good sources & citations really required

This article is really in need for good sources & citations. I have started editing the lede, which itself was in need of a complete overhaul, but it would need to be a careful and long process. A lot of content would need to be reformatted and improved, & any support in this area would be welcome. Also, the article is in real need of good images to represent indra - statues, pics from temples, animations, mythological paintings etc to represent his various forms or avatars could do the article much good. -Ambar wiki (talk) 16:34, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

Public Relations Department (Thailand)

กรมประชาสัมพันธ์ (Thai: Public Relations) has no corresponding article in others languages. The logo is Phra Intra (or Indra). The only God with a green or Jade body. He is blowing the horn (Shankha) made of shell, to announce news (good and bad) and to awake the people. Must always remember that each God's bodies are composed of different materials (that is how they are identified), and they hold different utensils or accouterments (to suit purposes in which the Universe created them to do/work).—Pawyilee (talk) 08:28, 8 June 2014 (UTC)

Assessment comment

{{Substituted comment|length=1052|lastedit=20090321202102|comment=I found a lot of errors and mis-interpreted "facts". I believe most of you need to pick up the Religions of the World text book. Look up Agni, Indra and well almost everything else commented on. You'll a lot of reference to white Aryans who settled in India. I am unsure of time periods but it makes it not so far fetched. This book is used at Colleges and Universities, so I am going to believe it, before, of course, Wikipedia. When you look up Agni here on Wikipedia it doesn't mention anything regarding it being an Aryan God, which the text I have supports an Aryan God, same as Indra. Thanks have a good day. Pick up a book, and read it. Make sure the author is accredited. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.33.94.47 (talk) 20:19, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

References

Understanding problems

Guys this article confuses between God and gods. Gods actually mean devas in Hindu mythology, which are roughly equivalent to Angels. God refers to Brahman, the creator of the World. Brahma the creator created Devas so they are not exactly gods. So a smaller section should believe included to help the reader understand that gods are like deities working under Brahman, the supreme God.31.215.192.38 (talk) 13:56, 23 April 2017 (UTC)

Welcome to wikipedia. Your understanding of the concept of Brahman is incorrect, as is your strange theory of deities working under Brahman. Please review the wikipedia guidelines on verifiability and reliable sources, and let us stick with those guidelines. Ms Sarah Welch (talk) 15:12, 23 April 2017 (UTC)

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A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:

• Mahavir Mahamastakabhisheka by Indra on Mahavir jayanti.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. Community Tech bot (talk) 06:37, 28 June 2018 (UTC)

one indus statue can be depiction of indra

zeus statue

indra god is compared to zeus and very justifiably so, since zeus is shown like this, and indus spear thrower statue resembles very much like this statue, these statues have also appeared in mauryan arts and pre mauryan arts like saurashtra coins. It maybe shiva as well but shiva is not typically depicted throwing stuff, and we know that indra was worshipped in ancient india before classical period, so it can be indra.

mauryan spear thrower type statue

Poseidon in indus spear thrower style

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.188.53.210 (talk) 00:13, 14 December 2018 (UTC)

Indra is related to Zeus, but not vice-versa?

This article mentions a possible link with Zeus under "origins", implying that Zeus preceded Indra. However, the wikipedia article on Zeus doesn't mention Indra at all. How does that make any sense? The similarities between Zeus and Indra are quite remarkable, even if unremarked. Sooku (talk) 08:32, 12 December 2019 (UTC)

I agree. Brahmaveer Rigvedi (talk) 05:29, 25 January 2020 (UTC)

Necessity of a Legends Section

Is it necessary to have a separate legends section about Indra where the same information can be placed in the literature section? The myths can be placed in whichever text it is mentioned, so there is no need for a separate legends section.Chariotrider555 (talk) 13:34, 16 October 2020 (UTC)

May be they should be merged and renamed as Legends and Literature .👨🏻‍🎨 💠245CMR💠.•^👥📜 13:52, 16 October 2020 (UTC)

On the Vishnu Purana's 14 Indras and Manus

I think User:Ms_Sarah_Welch removed in this edit way back in 2016 the paragraph and table detailing the fourteen Indras/Kings of the Gods as mentioned in the Vishnu Purana, possibly because no sources were given.

I have added a paragraph detailing the Vishnu Purana's take, sourced with three different books: Manmatha Nath Dutt's English Translation of the Vishnu Purana, H.H.Wilman's Translation of the Vishnu Purana, and the Gita Press's translation, the last of which has the original text in Sanskrit and a translation in Hindi. Aathish S (talk) 05:12, 16 June 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 30 June 2021

2402:8100:3859:26DC:1:1:4C2D:C3A9 (talk) 05:45, 30 June 2021 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate..245CMR.•^👥📜 05:56, 30 June 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 2 July 2021

Indra is of ancient but unclear origin. Aspects of Indra as a deity are cognate to other Indo-European gods; they are thunder gods such as Thor, Perun, and Zeus who share parts of his heroic mythologies, act as king of gods, and all are linked to "rain and thunder".[41].

IWANT TO ADD THAT AS PER RIGVEDA 4.18 INDRA WAS BORN IN A CAVE.SIMILARLY ZEUS ALSO BORN IN A CAVE AS PER GREEK MYTHOLOGY Unni1999 (talk) 04:00, 2 July 2021 (UTC)

Not done, that will come under WP: Original research, give WP: Secondary sources to support this claim. Also "Literature" section is more appropriate for this info..245CMR.•^👥📜 04:10, 2 July 2021 (UTC)

Ahayla

Indra Ahayla story 118.179.171.194 (talk) 09:18, 14 December 2021 (UTC)

first sentance

Not sure what ancient Vedic deity really means but generally something is only referred to as ancient if its extinct, worship of Indra is pretty common so it seems inappropriate to label it as such. As for the vedic part, its very repetitive as the vedas a a part of Hinduism, its like saying Allah is a quranic islamic god, its quite odd. It would make far more sense to just call him a "Hindu God" Josepherino (talk) 05:59, 17 July 2022 (UTC)

Worship of Indra is extinct. Didn't you read the complete lead? Indra's significance diminishes in the post-Vedic Indian literature [...]. --WikiLinuz {talk} 🍁 06:02, 17 July 2022 (UTC)

"He is also an important deity worshipped by the Kalash people" that seems to contradict this sentance. I would also suggest reading this and looking into the worship of Indra in Indonesia. extinct is defined as "no longer in existence" which certainly does not describe worship of Indra. Josepherino (talk) 06:54, 17 July 2022 (UTC)

It still doesn't change the fact that the worship of Indra is extinct, there're hardly any temples dedicated to him. We report reliable secondary sources and do not engage in original research. If you have a secondary source that mentions otherwise, please quote it. --WikiLinuz {talk} 🍁 18:16, 17 July 2022 (UTC)

I'm not completely certain you understand what extinct means, so lets try and agree on a definition in this context. For worship of Indra to be extinct, zero people have to partake in it, that is what "extinct" means, completely gone. Thus if even one counterexample can be found, it cannot be deemed extinct. Do you agree with this statement?

Here's some sources:

https://www.scribd.com/document/64459961/Indra-Jatra-of-Kathmandu-Gerard-Toffin

https://www.atlantis-press.com/proceedings/teams-20/125948544

https://www.ejournal.warmadewa.ac.id/index.php/sjj/article/view/2646 Josepherino (talk) 20:05, 17 July 2022 (UTC)

Indra related deities

Since my edit was reversed and I don't wish to start an edit war I instead ask: Why is Hercules/Heracles not listen as an equivalent deity to Indra? He is a god(is raised to godhood), he is the serpent slayer of greek and roman myth, carries a blunt weapon and yes, is depicted sometimes as wielding lightning. Heracles directly descends from Perkwunos. Jupiter and Zeus on the other hand is the sky god, literally Dyēus/Dyeus Phter. Obviously I think it's fair to put Jupiter and Zeus as equivalents to Indra being that they share the weather aspect and that the name Jupiter Tonans is cognate with Turvat/Thor/Taranis, but if anything Hercules fits the role of Indra as well or even much better than Jupiter does.

Also why for heavens sake are there non indo european deities given as examples of equivalents to Indra? In what way are they equivalent, just in function? Because they aren't related in any other way! Why not just put Yahweh as a related god also then, he sure does alot of rain and thunder and lightning in the bible. The way the infobox is formatted right now makes no sense at all, what is even the criteria for equivalents supposed to be here? Ediable (talk) 08:40, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

Indra devta in punjabi

Indra devta 223.185.53.200 (talk) 14:26, 10 December 2024 (UTC)