This is the talk page for discussing Holocaust victims and anything related to its purposes and tasks. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.
Holocaust victims was one of the good articles, but it has been removed from the list. There are suggestions below for improving the article to meet the good article criteria. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
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WARNING: ACTIVE ARBITRATION REMEDIESWikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Antisemitism in Poland#Article sourcing expectations (22 September 2019):
"The sourcing expectations applied to the article Collaboration in German-occupied Poland are expanded and adapted to cover all articles on the topic of Polish history during World War II (1933–45), including the Holocaust in Poland. Only high-quality sources may be used, specifically peer-reviewed scholarly journals, academically focused books by reputable publishers, and/or articles published by reputable institutions. English-language sources are preferred over non-English ones when available and of equal quality and relevance. Editors repeatedly failing to meet this standard may be topic-banned as an arbitration enforcement action."
Do you have reliable sources for that? The statement on the Slovenian Wikipedia (not suitable as a source itself) is unsourced. The Bannertalk12:13, 7 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Lol, he's grossly misrepresenting what's written in the slwiki article. 10.000 Slovenes died in Auschwitz, not in whole holocaust. IP is falsifying stuff on both projects. A09|(talk)20:29, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Probably a sock of the above IP. Source seems to be slwiki, but OP is trying to falsify what is written on slwiki. A09|(talk)20:29, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Extermination camp only lists the 6 Polish ECs. If you correctly add Maly Trostenets in Belarus (like in this article), you should also add Bronna Góra as the EC 8.
seems like a discussion was had about a potential name change of the article but it sputtered out and went nowhere. hasnt been talked about in 8 months so i went ahead and removed the tag. afaict, no serious discussion against the factual accuracy of the entire article has been had sense. seems like a silent consensus to me. Carlp941 (talk) 17:23, 24 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The Holocaust page says that "The Holocaust was the genocide of European Jews during World War II." and that "Separate Nazi persecutions killed a similar or larger number of non-Jewish civilians and prisoners of war (POWs); the term Holocaust is sometimes used to refer to the persecution of these other groups." However this page seems to indicate that "Holocaust" is the primary or even the only term used to describe ALL of the Nazi extermination campaigns when taken as a whole.
It seems a contradiction of terms that the Holocaust page is defined in terms of European Jews when the Holocaust victim page is defined in terms of all nazi mass murder victims. Especially as in the infobox for the holocaust it lists deaths: around 6 million jews as a hyperlink to the holocaust victim page which lists all holocaust victims and not just jews. Obviously european Jews were the primary target and most victimised group of the Holocaust and I would not want that fact to be minimised in any way. But the two pages feel slightly discordant in what they term the Holocaust as being. At best it's a messy conflation/confusion of terms, at worst it minimises/obfuscates the suffering of over 10 million non-jews in the Holocaust. So many people think of the Holocaust's toll as "only" the 6 million Jews when that isn't even the half of it.
I'm not an expert on the terminology used for the Holocaust but if Holocaust is simultaneously specific to Jewish victims and to all victims that is confusing.
Perhaps the Holocaust page should be rewritten as a description of the entire holocaust with the holocaust as it pertains specifically just to European Jews being given the page Shoah?
Perhaps there exists a term used to describe the entirety of the Nazi exterminations that could be applied to this page?
I understand that this is a sensitive topic and that bad-actors might want to fiddle with the terminology for various reasons but my main gripe is that the main Holocaust page somewhat under-sells the sheer scope of one of the most horrific crimes in human history as a result of this terminological confusion.Cymroes (talk) Cymroes (talk) 12:17, 26 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
